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Saturn yields a surprise this morning - 6/21/24 - Tethys and shadow - CONFIRMED

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#1 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 12:56 PM

So I was out around 3:30am setting up for Saturn imaging and the skies were not cooperative.  High thin clouds in a patchwork all over the sky.  I finally decided to give it a shot anyway since the mirror was cool and I was already up and dressed.  By sunrise I decided that the "clouds" were more likely just dispersed contrails.  In any case, imaging Saturn was the challenge as these clouds were sufficient to cause noticeable changes in the histogram brightness.  While I did one or two captures, during the worst of the clouds, with auto-histogram turned on for the remainder I lived in the hope that AS!4 variable transparency recovery feature would save the day...er..night...er...morning!!

 

Saturn was too low to worry about the emergence of Rhea from behind Saturn but it was well placed enough that I thought I'd do an animation for Rhea moving in her orbit (still will do that once all the captures are processed.  I just finished up my first video derotation and found a small dark spot near the limb.  The edge of the ring also had a defect that wasn't in the original capture.  I ran the VDR with the moons feature turned ON but with the mask set to zero which usually keeps the moons under control.  I pulled up my Starry Night and wouldn't you know that both features were at the correct positions for Tethys just a smidge below the ring plane and its shadow on the limb of Saturn.  Given the reality that WinJuPOS does invent moon positions that aren't always resolved in the actual capture, I took the reference frame, upsized it to the 150% size to match the 1.5x drizzle I had done on the VDR.  I've cropped the relevant portion and placed it as an insert to the VDR image so you can see that for sure the shadow is the real deal (no special processing done to the reference image to bring the moon out of the background) and there is a glitch in the ring edge that is at the right location for Tethys itself.

 

The animation will prove my case but for now here is my first Saturn image of the morning.  AS!4 insisted on a 60% stack of 38,700 frame capture SER.  I've left the image at 150% of capture size to make it easier to see the shadow and moon (if you believe it's the moon)

 

2024-06-21-1028_4-DeRot_AS_P60_lapl6_ap83_Drizzle15_WS_IA_P_insert.png

 

EDIT: In order to remove doubt about any WinJuPOS artifacts, I image derotated the reference frames and used Wavesharp to construct a GIF.  I ran gamma at 0.9 and pushed the L up to 0.7 to bring up the moons.  I was worried I would lose the shadow but I did not.  On a related note you can see Rhea drifting along above the ring plane.

 

animated_w186h129c255.gif

 

I'll post one to the maximum allowed by CN size limits.  I put it in panel #5.


Edited by dcaponeii, 21 June 2024 - 02:37 PM.

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#2 gstrumol

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 01:08 PM

My eyes were drawn to that area immediately ... honest! 

 

OK, maybe after you pointed it out. wink.gif

 

Nice shot!


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#3 KiwiRay

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 01:16 PM

Nice catch, Don. The faintness of the shadow explains why I could find no sign of it in my images this morning captured under mediocre conditions. No hint of the moon by the rings either - since half of it was in front of the ring shadow, I thought I might have had a chance to catch it, but no.


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#4 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 02:21 PM

Nice catch, Don. The faintness of the shadow explains why I could find no sign of it in my images this morning captured under mediocre conditions. No hint of the moon by the rings either - since half of it was in front of the ring shadow, I thought I might have had a chance to catch it, but no.


I’m sure of the shadow but I’ll need the animation to convince myself of Tethys itself. You’re right in that Tethys is half on the ring and half off so not sure what to expect. May have to animate the reference frames to know for sure. Turning off the moon feature in WinJuPOS will just smear them out but with it on I can’t be sure the software isn’t just creating an artifact at that location.

#5 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 02:37 PM

Ok here is the largest I can make the GIF.  You can clearly see Tethys itself crawling along the ring plane.

 

animated_w375h260c255.gif

 

Sorry to sound like boasting, but this one is freaking awesome!!  That is so cool to see the moon right along the edge of the rings like that.  I'll now return to my usual attitude of thinking my stuff is average at best.


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#6 KiwiRay

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 02:42 PM

That is awesome, Don, and quite likely a first for amateur imaging of Saturn. Great work!


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#7 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 02:49 PM

That is awesome, Don, and quite likely a first for amateur imaging of Saturn. Great work!

You really think that's true?  I'll have trouble believing that one.

 

Meanwhile at the other end of the rings:  Had to stretch the crud out of this in Wavesharp but no selecting pixel manipulation here!!  From left to right, Dione (unfortunately caught up in the diffraction effects from the rings) , Mimas, and Enceladus play around the ring.

 

Couldn't make it any bigger I'm afraid.  EDIT:  Not reversing the GIF allowed it to be larger.

 

 

animatedB_w325h295c255.gif

 

 

 


Edited by dcaponeii, 21 June 2024 - 02:54 PM.

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#8 KMH

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 03:43 PM

Wow - that is really cool!

 

Kevin


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#9 Ittaku

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 04:57 PM

Great catch and I love the skirting of the ring.


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#10 KiwiRay

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 05:01 PM

You really think that's true?  I'll have trouble believing that one.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if no one else has captured a moon gliding along the ring edge. The last time this might have been possible was 2009/10. I'd be interested to know how many people were trying to capture smaller moon events back then.

 

 

 

Meanwhile at the other end of the rings:  Had to stretch the crud out of this in Wavesharp but no selecting pixel manipulation here!!  From left to right, Dione (unfortunately caught up in the diffraction effects from the rings) , Mimas, and Enceladus play around the ring.

 

Couldn't make it any bigger I'm afraid.  EDIT:  Not reversing the GIF allowed it to be larger.

 

 

attachicon.gif animatedB_w325h295c255.gif

Also very cool!
 


Edited by KiwiRay, 21 June 2024 - 05:01 PM.

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#11 Foc

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 07:14 PM

Fantastic captures Don!


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#12 RMay

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 07:23 PM

Truly stunning captures. You might submit these to ALPO; their Saturn section team might be very interested.

Ron
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#13 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 07:25 PM

Truly stunning captures. You might submit these to ALPO; their Saturn section team might be very interested.

Ron


I’ve submitted to the lunar section but don’t have a contact for the planetary section.

#14 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 07:30 PM

I’m in the process of redoing the video derotations to ONLY remove field rotation. I’m still worried that WinJuPOS is fooling me. The image derotations did have moons turned off and were only single images rotated to north up. I’m pretty sure all is fine but double checking doesn’t hurt.

#15 RMay

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 07:57 PM

I’ve submitted to the lunar section but don’t have a contact for the planetary section.


Feel free to submit messages, data, and photos to Julius L. Benton, Jr., and Tim Robertson, and they can assist.

You can reach them at jlbaina@msn.com and cometman@cometman.net

Again, remarkable views…

Ron
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#16 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 08:40 PM

Feel free to submit messages, data, and photos to Julius L. Benton, Jr., and Tim Robertson, and they can assist.

You can reach them at jlbaina@msn.com and cometman@cometman.net

Again, remarkable views…

Ron

Thanks for the contact information.  I sent and email to Mr. Benton with the results.



#17 Kokatha man

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 08:46 PM

Excellent Don..!!! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

 

I cannot recall images/animations with Tethys gliding along the ring edge before, so Ray might well be right! waytogo.gif

 

Apologies if I don't respond to all of your threads...the numbers can be a bit overwhelming at times! Eyecrazy.gif lol.gif  


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#18 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 08:50 PM

Excellent Don..!!! waytogo.gif waytogo.gif waytogo.gif

I cannot recall images/animations with Tethys gliding along the ring edge before, so Ray might well be right! waytogo.gif

Apologies if I don't respond to all of your threads...the numbers can be a bit overwhelming at times! Eyecrazy.gif lol.gif


I understand completely about comments. I’ve had a run of good weather that I’m trying to use to good advantage. I’m definitely having a blast. I sent the data to ALPO we’ll see if there’s an interest in it.
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#19 Borodog

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 09:03 PM

Don,

 

Amazing captures.


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#20 dcaponeii

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Posted 21 June 2024 - 09:27 PM

Don,

Amazing captures.


Lucky for sure. I seem to recall some old saying that luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Maybe all this time we spend at our scopes is actually doing something for our skills.
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#21 R Botero

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 02:31 AM

Wow wow wow bow.gif waytogo.gif


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#22 John Boudreau

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 08:16 AM

 

Meanwhile at the other end of the rings:  Had to stretch the crud out of this in Wavesharp but no selecting pixel manipulation here!!  From left to right, Dione (unfortunately caught up in the diffraction effects from the rings) , Mimas, and Enceladus play around the ring.

 

 

attachicon.gif animatedB_w325h295c255.gif

 

This GIF also demonstrates just how spot-on your collimation and ADC settings are Don! Even with a perfect ADC setting, there will be some momentary and minute-by-minute variances vs. the actual dispersion of the air and the 'north up' edge of the rings should tend towards displaying a bit more blue dispersion --- which is exactly what was recorded.  waytogo.gif


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#23 dcaponeii

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 08:58 AM

This GIF also demonstrates just how spot-on your collimation and ADC settings are Don! Even with a perfect ADC setting, there will be some momentary and minute-by-minute variances vs. the actual dispersion of the air and the 'north up' edge of the rings should tend towards displaying a bit more blue dispersion --- which is exactly what was recorded. waytogo.gif


Thanks John I hadn’t considered that. It’s too bad Dione was caught up the the ring diffractions and Enceladus started very close to the frame edge. Both causing things to looks pretty awful regarding collimation.

#24 John Boudreau

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 09:38 AM

Thanks John I hadn’t considered that. It’s too bad Dione was caught up the the ring diffractions and Enceladus started very close to the frame edge. Both causing things to looks pretty awful regarding collimation.

For collimation it's a symmetry we're looking for, and the N-S ring diffraction symmetry of your result is excellent. There's nothing that can be noticeably done with the moons interaction with the ring diffraction unless you start imaging with a much larger aperture. grin.gif



#25 Kiwi Paul

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Posted 22 June 2024 - 09:47 AM

Fantastic result Don. Dedication does pay off! It truely is a sight to see a moon moving along the ring edge like that.
Cheers Paul
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