26 replies to this topic

[AaronM]

Hello friends,

 

I have another question: who was APL? On the focuser of my 100/1730 mm refractor is a tiny, black sticker with white inscription "APL". The entire focuser is said to come from a Vixen 102L refractor. I once read somewhere (here?) that APL was supposed to have been a forerunner of Vixen or a supplier to Vixen? Is that correct ? Kind regards from good old germany, Michael

[Kasmos]

Some of the  Selsi 247 80/910mm telescopes have a APL makers mark and a 'V' for Vixen on the bottom of the focuser and depending on the year, the later ones look more like a Vixen and came with a Polaris mount.

 

Then there's these:

https://www.cloudyni...bols/?p=3530069

 

https://www.cloudyni...bols/?p=3532613

 

[Bomber Bob]

YEARS ago, I had associated APL with Apollo -- IIRC, based on a post on another forum, BUT I never confirmed that (couldn't find Apollo in the Big List of Japanese Binocular Codes!)...

 

There's still a bunch of well-made scope "brands" w/o Notes in the Registry.  Maybe... I'll spend some HOT indoor hours trying to run these down.

 

But, Yes!, Chris is right -- lots of hardware with both APL & (V) marks.  Seems like APL merged with Vixen - so in a way, it never went away - not so far, anyway...

Edited by Bomber Bob, 01 July 2024 - 04:06 PM.

[Kasmos]

Just yesterday I saw this interesting example of a APL marked Vixen/Celestron guide scope.

I wouldn't have thought this later style of a Vixen (probably mid to late 80s), would still have a APL mark.

If I didn't already have too many 60mms, especially in the f/700mm format I'd be on it.

 

for a complete look at it:

https://www.cloudyni...0mm-guidescope/

 

[Bomber Bob]

I bought one of the sage green no-APL all-(V) 60x700 guidescopes (with the funky attach to big scope hardware).  It had a great lens!

[deSitter]

Just yesterday I saw this interesting example of a APL marked Vixen/Celestron guide scope.

APL-Vixen-Celestron.jpg

I wouldn't have thought this later style of a Vixen (probably mid to late 80s), would still have a APL mark.

If I didn't already have too many 60mms, especially in the f/700mm format I'd be on it.

 

for a complete look at it:

https://www.cloudyni...0mm-guidescope/

I need a 60/700mm.

 

-drl

[Garyth64]

YEARS ago, I had associated APL with Apollo -- IIRC, based on a post on another forum, BUT I never confirmed that (couldn't find Apollo in the Big List of Japanese Binocular Codes!)...

 

There's still a bunch of well-made scope "brands" w/o Notes in the Registry.  Maybe... I'll spend some HOT indoor hours trying to run these down.

 

But, Yes!, Chris is right -- lots of hardware with both APL & (V) marks.  Seems like APL merged with Vixen - so in a way, it never went away - not so far, anyway...

Yes, I read something a while ago that APL was Apollo Labs, or something like that.

[Kasmos]

Yes, I read something a while ago that APL was Apollo Labs, or something like that.

Both of the links I gave in post#2 go to the Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols and mention that. I'm fairly sure it's come up in a few other discussions but who knows where? 

[Garyth64]

Both of the links I gave in post#2 go to the Comprehensive List of Japanese Symbols and mention that. I'm fairly sure it's come up in a few other discussions but who knows where? 

Yep, I believe the first link was the place I saw it.  

[Terra Nova]

“On Christmas Eve every year, a group of reindeer carry the sled on which Santa Claus rides with lots of gifts. According to a collection of poems written by Clement Clarke Moore, all of the reindeer have names, one of which is “Vixen.” The company, Vixen Co., Ltd., is named after the reindeer, the messenger of happiness. Vixen was founded in 1949 as the integrated manufacturer of optical devices like astronomical telescopes, binoculars, and microscopes.”-

 

https://global.vixen...porate/outline/
 

I too have heard/read a number of years ago that APL was Apollo Labs and that they were somehow linked with Vixen. However, as Vixen was founded in 1949, I doubt that Apollo Labs was a forerunner. That and the fact that both companies were putting out telescopes with their own maker’s mark at the same time. APL also produced products for Mayflower (Colonial Trading Company) back in the 1960s. I have an astoundingly good Mayflower 60mm x 700mm refractor from 1965. In fact, from a rather large collection of Japanese long achromats (50mm to 102mm, F10 to F18) from the period, it’s the only one that I have kept.

[Bomber Bob]

Thanks, Terra.  I think it's possible that APL was Vixen or a Vixen re-brand -- marketing to the NASA Moon Craze 60 years ago.

 

Plenty of examples where TOWA branded scopes to make them appealing in different markets:  STEIN TOWA in Germany / Europe, besides all the well-known Store Brands.

 

The fly in the ointment is having both APL & (V) marks on the same scope.  Unless, Vixen saw the end of the Moon Race market coming, and someone in Mgmt decided that Vixen was "catchier" -- that the company no longer needed the Apollo mark...

 

Who knows?  Hopefully, one of our Japanese CNers will chime in with the Real Story...

[Terra Nova]

Thanks, Terra.  I think it's possible that APL was Vixen or a Vixen re-brand -- marketing to the NASA Moon Craze 60 years ago.

 

Plenty of examples where TOWA branded scopes to make them appealing in different markets:  STEIN TOWA in Germany / Europe, besides all the well-known Store Brands.

 

The fly in the ointment is having both APL & (V) marks on the same scope.  Unless, Vixen saw the end of the Moon Race market coming, and someone in Mgmt decided that Vixen was "catchier" -- that the company no longer needed the Apollo mark...

 

Who knows?  Hopefully, one of our Japanese CNers will chime in with the Real Story...

Maybe, or maybe if Vixen took over APL, both of which were making excellent optics at the time.

[Bomber Bob]

Yeah, Criterion, Mogey, Tinsley, etc. were absorbed by much larger companies.  Sometimes for the optical expertise, or their sources, or a combination of the best elements [pun intended].  

[aoirotukiko]

Hi

 

If APL is an abbreviation of APOLLO

The manufacturer of astronomical telescopes with the company name APOLLO is Apollo Shōkō Corporation.

Founded in 1964, it exported astronomical telescopes to the USA. Orders decreased, which led to debt and bankruptcy in 1971.

Apollo Shōkō is not well known even in Japan.

 

Miura trading Co.  ( Brand:Manon) supplied optical products to stores for military personnel at U.S. military presence in Japan.

It is a unique trading company.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Bomber Bob]

Great INFO!  Thank You!  I'll get the Registry updated.

[Don W]

APL appears on the focuser on my Selsi 247 80mm.

 

 

[jragsdale]

Just yesterday I saw this interesting example of a APL marked Vixen/Celestron guide scope.

APL-Vixen-Celestron.jpg

I wouldn't have thought this later style of a Vixen (probably mid to late 80s), would still have a APL mark.

If I didn't already have too many 60mms, especially in the f/700mm format I'd be on it.

 

for a complete look at it:

https://www.cloudyni...0mm-guidescope/

I like this one too, haven't ever seen one for sale before.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Bomber Bob]

Hi

 

If APL is an abbreviation of APOLLO

The manufacturer of astronomical telescopes with the company name APOLLO is Apollo Shōkō Corporation.

Founded in 1964, it exported astronomical telescopes to the USA. Orders decreased, which led to debt and bankruptcy in 1971.

Apollo Shōkō is not well known even in Japan.

 

Miura trading Co.  ( Brand:Manon) supplied optical products to stores for military personnel at U.S. military presence in Japan.

It is a unique trading company.

Thanks Again!  Any additional information you can find for EIKOW, HINO / MIZAR, VIXEN, & YAMAMOTO is very much appreciated.  Lots of Classic Japanese Scope Fans on the Forum -- we gobble up the details!

[aoirotukiko]

Hi

 

Thank you

 

Vixen had three factories in 1972.

One of them was Atlas Optical Co., Ltd., which was probably built in 1971. Atlas Optical Co., Ltd. was responsible for manufacturing Vixen's astronomical telescopes. That was around the time Apollo Shoko Co., Ltd. went bankrupt.

If Atlas Optical had been located on the former site of Apollo Shoko Co., Ltd.,
I would have agreed that Apollo Shoko Co., Ltd. had been absorbed into Vixen, but the locations are a little far apart, so I still can't agree.

However, there may be some connection.

I will continue to investigate and report on this issue.

[Kasmos]

Hi

 

Thank you

 

Vixen had three factories in 1972.

One of them was Atlas Optical Co., Ltd., which was probably built in 1971. Atlas Optical Co., Ltd. was responsible for manufacturing Vixen's astronomical telescopes. That was around the time Apollo Shoko Co., Ltd. went bankrupt.

If Atlas Optical had been located on the former site of Apollo Shoko Co., Ltd.,
I would have agreed that Apollo Shoko Co., Ltd. had been absorbed into Vixen, but the locations are a little far apart, so I still can't agree.

However, there may be some connection.

I will continue to investigate and report on this issue.

Do we really know that Apollo Shoko was APL?

 

It was said in the link below that it was Apollo Labs, or Apollo Business and Industry.

https://www.cloudyni...bols/?p=3530069

 

And in the link below is says APL-Apollo Business & Industry-Bought by Koyu, then Vixen

https://www.cloudyni...bols/?p=3532613

 

I don't know where either of those guys found their information but it keeps being repeated.

[aoirotukiko]

Hi

 

Kasmos,Thank you

I was also interested in that description.

I researched it based on publicly available materials.

 

About Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd.

In 1959, Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd. took over the business of Apollo Shokai, which went out of business.

In 1960, Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd. began manufacturing small tape recorders.

Its main customer was the toy manufacturer Deluxe Reading Co. (USA).

In 1962, it merged with the company of the same name, Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd., and then absorbed Apollo Shokai.

In 1964, it merged with Sunwave Kogyo Co., Ltd.

The new company name after the merger was Sunwave Kogyo Co., Ltd.

Sunwave Kogyo Co., Ltd. is well known in Japan for manufacturing stainless steel sinks.

 

Comparing data from around 1962 for Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd. and Koyusha(Vixen), the company sizes are completely different.

Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd. has capital of 130 million yen, about 400 employees.

On the other hand, Koyusha has capital of 8 million yen, 30 employees.

Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd.'s business is the manufacture of electrical products, automotive electrical equipment, and kitchenware. Meanwhile, Kotomosha sells optical equipment accessories.

Koyusha does not have the funds to acquire Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd.

The merger between Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd. and Sunwave Kogyo Co., Ltd. has also been covered in industry magazines.

 

For the above reasons, it is incorrect to say that Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd. was absorbed into Koyusha.

It is also clear that the APL mentioned here is not Apollo Kogyo Co., Ltd.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[ccwemyss]

I am also curious as to what happened between HOC and APL. HOC, of course, is not a simple matter.

 

H.O.C. (block letters with periods), HOC (block letters without periods, and script HOC were maker's marks on at least Mayflower, ATCO, Selsi, Horizon, Monolux, Bushnell, and Shrine-Manon. It has been discussed that these may be different makers. There is strong evidence that script HOC is registered with Hiyoshi Kogaku, but binoculars have been shown with script HOC and H.O.C. on the same unit. Galakuma found evidence that H.O.C. is Hitomi Optical, although there is speculation that it could be Horiguichi. And HOC has been associated with Hino Optical, although Galakuma has said that Hitomi made telescopes for Hino and Eikow, so that may just be a variation on the same mark. There is also an example of an HOC branded scope that has an Astro-Optical serial number. 

 

Regardless of the differences, these many brands seemed to randomly switch between the three HOCs in the 50's and early 60's, but then around the same time in the mid-60's it appears that they mostly change over to APL. So what happened?

 

Did APL just make them all a better offer? Was there some relationship between the companies, such as staff moving? Did one or all of the HOCs close, or get absorbed by another company that had a different business model? 

 

Chip W. 

[Bomber Bob]

Yeah, the 3 HOC's are a confusing jumble!  I think it was true back then, too.

 

Cursive HOC is firmly established as Hiyoshi.  Beyond that one...

 

For the Registry, I assume that HOC is Hino; later, Hino / Mizar; then, just Mizar - with HINO OPTICAL CO., INC in a much smaller font on the label.  Yet... the original box displays HINO in big font on the end flaps, with MIZAR on the large top side...

 

And, it's as bad on the scopes:  Cursive HOC on the lens cell, with a different Mark on the label, besides the Brand Name!  I assume that 2 different marks means, Lens from one, OTA hardware from another.

[Kasmos]

Based on the variations and similarities of older Shrine Manons and the pre-SYW Mayflower 814s, my personal belief is that HOC and H.O.C. were the same maker and possibly somehow related to cursive hoc as well. Also based on those models my personal opinion is that the Manons and Mayflowers marked HOC were not Hino products as I can't remember ever seeing a Hino marked scope that looked like them. I also believe that APL must have taken over HOC since there are scopes marked APL and HOC that appear feature for feature to be the same. I'd really have to go thru my files of those scopes to positively confirm that, but for what it's worth, that's been the general impression I've had.

[ccwemyss]

That's partly why I was asking about HOC and APL. Not to derail the thread into a discussion of HOC, but because it seems like an odd coincidence that all of these brands transitioned around the same time from HOC to APL as the makers mark. 

 

People rave about the HOC optics, and my own testing of a few HOC objectives has shown both excellent DPAC and star tests. APL is sometimes described as almost but not quite to the same standard. If there was some transition where APL took over from HOC, but some optician retired around that time or went to a different company, then there may be some lineage across the two makers. I am not suggesting that there is, but rather that it might offer some guidance for further research to see if there are associated names of people that are common to the two. 

 

Chip W.