19 replies to this topic

[GingerAstro]

For over a year now, I've been working with Powerbanks, which have been a game-changer for me, as you can easily carry up to two in the cabin when flying without weighing down your backpack, assuming that an extra kilo for two batteries won’t ruin your back. Thanks to the new Power Delivery (PD) technology, now mature, you can deliver the right voltage up to 20 volts @ 5A to all your equipment.

Click here to view the article

[x86Hephestus]

Have been doing this for a few years in the US. You definitely need to confirm when buying the power bank how it will react when multiple USB ports on the power bank are populated. Also, some have USB-PD but my not necessarily support 12v. If you find one that works it's great.

[Bitslizer]

Most airlines allow 2x LiPo battery up to 160 whrs each, that's about 40000mah.  I actually have 2x 12v LiFePo4 12(.6)v 12ah battery that's about 155whr that can run the 12v equipment straight without further conversion lost.

 

I also have a diode harness for parallel power source and hot swap capability

[Hilmi]

I have been promoting this solution for power for a while now. Only issue is that many manufacturers overstate their Power Delivery output. I have had Samsung, Anker and Belkin USB-C PD outputs claim to be 65 Watts but fail to power a 45 W laptop. Always make sure to over rate your PD Wattage and don't trust manufacturer claims as they will many times state output in a sneaky way such as maximum combined wattage for all the watts combined and many times individual ports are not ablet to achieve the claimed wattage output. I generally recommend this solution for visual astronomy as that is less power demanding.

[GingerAstro]

The Power Delivery standard has been around since early 2010, but batteries weren't ready then and specifications weren't really improved. Now USB PD is mature and the upcoming version 3.1 will provide more power, and type C to 2.1 or 2.5mm with 12 or 15volts can be found easily.

 

At first I had some problems with Anker, they replaced an old model twice, but now everything works fine.

I have no problem using 2xPD on my setup and I can easily reach more than 7h of use but here are the conditions to optimize:

• Avoid too many objects per night, 3 to 4 is OK
• Some software are much more power hungry than other:
•           NINA is greedy. I'm aiming with it but shooting with Raising Cam.
•           PHD2 also; Only use above a focal of 5.5 for shot > 120s otherwise trust you gear with a good polar alignment.
• Use a mini PC like Mele OR use a laptop on its internal battery with minimum backlighting (my ASUS UX3xxx can stay with the display on more than 7h like this).

If you follow these tips, the whole night is yours, with 2 PD x 27000mhA for a strain wave mount, A cooled CMOS, mini PC, an OAG and ... no dew !

[Alan_]

You have not calculated the required battery capacity correctly, viz you say:

 

"This config will need 8.8 Ampere for a 6h of night slewing and tracking leading to a consumption of 52,800mAh (A x H x 1000)."

 

You need to multiply the required "power" by the time to get the energy storage needs in Watt-hours (Wh). In this case 93 Watts * 6 hrs = 558Wh. To translate this into a single cell Lithium cell capacity, divide by 3.7 (nominal single cell voltage) to get the Ah capacity needed. In this example that would be 150.8 Ah, (150,800 mAh).

 

In practice the average power consumption will be much less than 93W. Indeed since your setup ran for 3.5 hrs on a single ANKER 537 (88.8Whr stored energy) then the average consumption was circa 25 Watts.  This makes sense because an HEM15 typically only draws 0.5A (at 12V) when tracking and my Mele 4C idles at about 0.8A (at 12V).

 

Note also that the airline carry on limit is typically 100 Wh for a single battery pack (27Ah = 27,000mAh equivalent single cell Litium battery) and 150Wh with special agreed carry-on permission. When I took internal flights in China the airline staff checked every battery I had for energy capacity. In the USA I have only had power packs checked once, I think the sophisiticated airport scanners can see the battery packs and appear to know what size is allowed and where checks are needed.

[GingerAstro]

Thanks Yan for your feedback, but I will not discuss here the math as even power banks with the same storage capacity will not provide the same runtime with respect to the number of cells, for example.

 

I will do my Elon Musk here: multiple tries to enhance the experience

 

We have to keep in mind that many factors influence consumption, a rough polar alignement will draw more power in RA and DEC with auto guiding software, so does the exposure time as well...

If I can avoid PHD2, I will, as long my focal length is below 6 and 180s per image.

Also, I have to admit that HEM15 and PHD2 are not the couple of the year !

But that's another subject I'll have to delve into.

Flushing the CMOS buffer 60 times every 30s will consume more current than 30 times x 60s.

And same for the software, the more plugins, options and equipements.

 

 

Since 6 months, I'm using an Anker 537 (24K) and an Anker Prime (27K).

Last time I've traveled to Tibet and yes, Chinese airlines were super picky, but as I gave one power bank to my gf and one for me, I had no problems for the clearance.

When I'm out and about, most of the time I just bring my laptop and not the mini PC, looking for the lightest configuration to maximize shooting time.

Better be light when in the middle of nowhere, Yeti can suddenly appear !

 

I've noticed that using NINA on my laptop on its internal battery, gave me only 3.5h of use ( lowest screen luminance, a screen sleeping time set to 1mn, shooting 120s per frame).

With a simple imaging software like RisingSky, in the same condition I had 7h...

[flightlogic]

Great article!  I am often surprised when I have hardware around that I haven't really explored.  Have been carrying a Lithium 12volt around for a while.... while right on my shelf are a range of power banks that have come my way over time.  Never even glanced at them (and done the amp hour capacity calcs to see that... indeed, they could be astro solutions.  And much lighter.

 

So, thank you for getting me thinking.

And, just curious as to that lens/camera combo.  What are they specifically?  I have all "red" brand cameras... mostly cooled.  So, I don't know by looking what your blue one is....

 

Best,

Nicholas

[Clippy]

I'm glad to see this becoming mainstream. I too have been using a 12V PD cable in the US for a while, it's far better than a dedicated 12V battery or (recoil in horror) 8 AA non-rechargeable batteries. Someone here has said you can take 160Wh on a plane, I don't think that's correct, I'm pretty sure the limit is 100Wh. 

It's also useful to note that 12V unfortunately lacks popularity amongst power banks for some reason, a lot of newer ones are dropping out that voltage level. However, when PD 3.1 becomes mainstream, that theoretically supports any arbitrary voltage so this will no longer be a problem.

Happy gazing!

[GingerAstro]

Great article!  I am often surprised when I have hardware around that I haven't really explored.  Have been carrying a Lithium 12volt around for a while.... while right on my shelf are a range of power banks that have come my way over time.  Never even glanced at them (and done the amp hour capacity calcs to see that... indeed, they could be astro solutions.  And much lighter.

 

So, thank you for getting me thinking.

And, just curious as to that lens/camera combo.  What are they specifically?  I have all "red" brand cameras... mostly cooled.  So, I don't know by looking what your blue one is....

 

Best,

Nicholas

Thx for your feeback, the camera is a RisingCam aka Touptek aka Altair

https://www.aliexpre...1359313736.html

same as ZWO ASI 2600 MC Pro Color but cheaper.

 

The lens is an ACL 200mm F4 dedicated for astrophoto and it's really a great product with sharp images.

https://www.sharpsta...ducts_1/23.html

[GingerAstro]

I'm glad to see this becoming mainstream. I too have been using a 12V PD cable in the US for a while, it's far better than a dedicated 12V battery or (recoil in horror) 8 AA non-rechargeable batteries. Someone here has said you can take 160Wh on a plane, I don't think that's correct, I'm pretty sure the limit is 100Wh. 

It's also useful to note that 12V unfortunately lacks popularity amongst power banks for some reason, a lot of newer ones are dropping out that voltage level. However, when PD 3.1 becomes mainstream, that theoretically supports any arbitrary voltage so this will no longer be a problem.

Happy gazing!

Yes 2 x 100Wh is the limit but some carriers can accept up to 150Wh, in fact everything depend on the luggage checking protocol (TSA men)

[chanik]

This is how I roll too.  I use a 12V trigger cable to the CEM70G mount with this USB-C PD powerbank from AOHI  

https://www.amazon.c...WSD/ref=sr_1_27

I can get 12hrs run time between charges roughly

[Alan_]

Thanks Yan for your feedback, but I will not discuss here the math as even power banks with the same storage capacity will not provide the same runtime with respect to the number of cells, for example.

 

I will do my Elon Musk here: multiple tries to enhance the experience

 

We have to keep in mind that many factors influence consumption, a rough polar alignement will draw more power in RA and DEC with auto guiding software, so does the exposure time as well...

If I can avoid PHD2, I will, as long my focal length is below 6 and 180s per image.

Also, I have to admit that HEM15 and PHD2 are not the couple of the year !

But that's another subject I'll have to delve into.

Flushing the CMOS buffer 60 times every 30s will consume more current than 30 times x 60s.

And same for the software, the more plugins, options and equipements.

 

 

Since 6 months, I'm using an Anker 537 (24K) and an Anker Prime (27K).

Last time I've traveled to Tibet and yes, Chinese airlines were super picky, but as I gave one power bank to my gf and one for me, I had no problems for the clearance.

When I'm out and about, most of the time I just bring my laptop and not the mini PC, looking for the lightest configuration to maximize shooting time.

Better be light when in the middle of nowhere, Yeti can suddenly appear !

 

I've noticed that using NINA on my laptop on its internal battery, gave me only 3.5h of use ( lowest screen luminance, a screen sleeping time set to 1mn, shooting 120s per frame).

With a simple imaging software like RisingSky, in the same condition I had 7h...

No need to discuss the maths, but it would be a good idea to correct the article so others do not make the same mistake!

[flightlogic]

Thx for your feeback, the camera is a RisingCam aka Touptek aka Altair

https://www.aliexpre...1359313736.html

same as ZWO ASI 2600 MC Pro Color but cheaper.

 

The lens is an ACL 200mm F4 dedicated for astrophoto and it's really a great product with sharp images.

https://www.sharpsta...ducts_1/23.html

Good links for me to look up the specifics.  Thank you for taking the time to reply.  Your research and note taking about how long different software programs will run on battery power is really good to know.  I think, all in all, your post will motivate me to pack up a lens and cooled camera/laptop to take on journeys around the world.  I have often found myself in a dark place, on work trips overseas... and wishing I had astro gear with me.   Cheers

[SporadicGazer]

This is how I roll too.  I use a 12V trigger cable to the CEM70G mount with this USB-C PD powerbank from AOHI  

https://www.amazon.c...WSD/ref=sr_1_27

I can get 12hrs run time between charges roughly

That sounds ideal but for one thing, it is over the official 100Wh limit for air travel.

 

Do you, or anyone else reading, know of a <100Wh equivalent product?  (I.e. one that is confirmed to support 12V/3A like this one.)

 

(Yes, I know domestically in the USA you can go to 160Wh with little trouble and they often don't actually check carefully.  However I've have been inspected on International flights and I'd rather not get my travel battery confiscated.)

 

Thanks!

[chanik]

I've traveled with it 5x now though technically it is 108Whr I suppose.  Here is one at 27000 so 100Whr  

https://www.amazon.c...HTNS/ref=sr_1_8

The main thing to look for is 65W or better power out.

[Strewth78]

I had no success.

I bought 2 Anker prime 27k power banks, since that was mentioned by someone in this thread, and 2 pd3.1 cables but they will not give charge to either my camera or asiair.

I now see that the anker prime offers up to 3a for all voltages, but not 12v (only 1.5a). These companies advertise house much watts they max out at, and list the different voltages but do not advertise the max ampage. It's in the small print on the bottom of the powerbank with which ironically you need a telescope to see!

Just wasted €270, and foolishly bought the powerbank a few weeks before the camera, so I'm just past my one month return window.

[GingerAstro]

Hi Strewth,

 

Sorry to hear, let's see how to solve.

Which camera are you using ?

I have a risingcam which is equivalent of the ASI2600MC.

I'm not using asiair box with my config, but I can try to plug my ASI2600LC Air with the 27k bank.

I think as long you are not powered other stuff with the camera it could handle, but if you need to power the camera, the autofocus, the guidecam by USB, not sure it's sustainable.

Also I have no problem to power my mele PC with the 27k bank.

When I'm on the move, I'm using a wide gear ACL200+HEM15 and either a MELE either a Mobile Comp like my Asus.

I'm shooting 30s frames and I'm not using PHD2, I'm just trusting the mount for guiding.

Also in that case, I'm using a very simple software just for capturing frame (Rising Sky).

With this config I can reach 5h of shooting (2 to 3 differents objects and I'm doing the plate solving manually grin.gif)

I've noticed with another rig, FRA500+HEM15+PHD2+NINA and my mobile computer with 2 banks that I was not able to shoot more than 90mn.

Especially with a poor polar alignement or a bortle sky >7, this will require a lot of pulse guiding and so causing a threat on the power delivery.

 

I will do a test later with just the cam and a mount with the 27k and I will show you the display.

[Strewth78]

At least if its working for you, it makes me wonder if perhaps it's my cables? I bought two cables that claim to be able to support up to 20v/7a/140w and pd3.1 capable.
I've tried using Anker prime 27k to the Asiair plus on its own, and also tried connecting the powerbank just to the camera, Asi2600mm Duo, and then the asiair connected via mains supply, but the camera wouldn't turn on even then.
My plan was to have a separate powerbank for the camera, the air, and the mount (I haven't bought the 3rd battery yet), to reduce the workload of any of the banks.

[GingerAstro]

Well if you plug the PD cable to the bank and the camera you may something like that

 

Cant insert the image

 

Here I plug the camera similar to ASI2600MC to the laptop cooling -30° as it was 20° in the room and start a multiple framing of 60s, no hidden power.

 

Cant insert the image

 

After 1h and 60 pictures, I got this information on the powerbank

 

 

But don't believe the display, I will definitively have not 5h of shoothing after 1h...

Probably around 50% of capacity we may see some issues.

 

I don't have time to test it longer but I was also able to plug the bank and power the ASI 2600MC Air without trouble. So your problem is probably the PD cable. Are you sure it's a 12V ?

 

ALSO the goal in my article was to demonstrate that a light configuration (HEM15+ACL200+tripod) which fit easily in a backpack with the 2 power bank can be registered in flight cabin and let you operate a mobile rig in the middle of nowhere for a few hours.

 

I DOUBT this kind of powering solution is realy suitable with a bigger rig even with 3 power banks. 

When I tested last year, with this config FRA500+HEM15+NINA+ASI2600MC+ASI220 and my laptop on its own battery I had only about 75mn of juice with my 2 powerbanks.