35 replies to this topic

[GOLGO13]

Went to a star party for a few days (had to cut it short due to family emergencies). Someone there had a night vision unit. Unfortunately I didn't get many looks and it didn't seem to be in focus completely when I did look. Didn't appear to be quite as good as my unit from what I could tell. But can't really compare given I didn't have mine with me. My friend said he thought my unit was probably better, but still said it worked well.

 

If that person is on here, I suggest not pushing NV on people.

 

He only brought his NV unit, so he was using it in other people's scopes. But he was pushing people to use it who were doing visual. And it made them uncomfortable and it ruined their night vision (with night vision...that's funny). I figure that's because he didn't bring a scope. Had I brought my full amount of scopes I would have just let him use my 10 inch dob...but I did a minimal setup this time.

 

Was a bit disappointing to not get a good sense of another unit, since I've only looked through mine. And unfortunately my trip was cut short. I used my 25x100 binos most of the time. That worked out pretty well, but I only got one night and the transparency wasn't great most of the time.

 

I'm sometimes quite hesitant to use NV in club member's scopes. And I always ask if they want to try it. I usually wait until the majority of newbies have left since I feel it's awkward to share NV with them. They just bought a 400-500 dollar scope. Then they see this crazy stuff and ask how much it costs. 5K+ isn't exactly realistic for people at this level of the hobby. But the experienced observers who come are OK to show it to. However, I think they may have a bit of a bad taste now so I may keep my NV to myself a bit more. 

 

Quite bummed about having to leave early. It was so nice to unplug from phones/work/personal issues/etc. for a few days. And it was nice to have good conversations with some of the older attendees at lunch/dinner.

 

I did my first real outreach also (outside of club events). I setup my solar scopes and showed a lot of people sun spots. We also had an HA setup and a Quark zoomed in on another scope. Showed that to a good amount of new folks. I have social anxiety disorder and a few other anxiety issues. But the new medicine seems to be helping with that (unless the situation is stronger in nature). TMI I realize. But I feel like focusing on hobbies and connecting with real people is helpful. I've not been on here much lately, but this used to be my primary source of connection for quite some time. But face to face much more impactful.

 

Sorry for the long post. I still would like to compare units sometime with a better situation.

[sixela]

it didn't seem to be in focus completely when I did look

Sure it wasn’t simply the NVD eyepiece diopter that was not set for your eyes?

[GOLGO13]

Sure it wasn’t simply the NVD eyepiece diopter that was not set for your eyes?

That is a possibility. Similar to trying to share views with binoculars. But may have been a telescope which doesn't have the required inward or outward focuser travel for how he had it setup. He tweaked something to make it focus better at some point. He had some sort of a custom adapter for the 65mm Gary Russell eyepiece.

[PEterW]

I agree about the caution with showing people a view that will blow their scopes away. Your feelings are similar to mine, being a member of the NV community can make you a bit of an outcast… but you know you got the best views!

I’ve shown more experienced amateurs, but there can be resistance there too- some things look better with glass and how much did it cost! Showing the Milky Way at 1x from a light polluted location is probably the greatest outreach bang that NV can deliver and should be shown to people without hesitation. Many people don’t get excited by nebulae.
Trying NV in other scopes risks issues with focus travel, the performance of reducers etc. as you note, best to use it with your stuff, they you know it’s working properly. Many people are too polite to flag small issues with the view, many don’t even refocus if you let the have a look.
Hope your family emergencies resolved themselves, always stressful when something out the blue happens.

Peter

[havasman]

Good advice about trying to foist our toys on folks.

 

Glad you're back posting and contributing. Anxiety can be a tough interference. I'll bet every forum member also wishes you strength and best results with the battle.

[79Vette]

For public outreach I usually bring 2 scopes. I'll put a bright globular or double star or planet in my 10" dob, and one of the big showpiece nebula in my 80mm refractor with the night vision.

I like to suggest people use their non dominant eye for the NV if they want to preserve dark adaptation, but I find the public events have so much light for illuminating walking paths/safety using the NV doesn't really bother me personally.

If I'm at a truly dark site with a handful of other enthusiasts, I'll save the NV u til I am done with glass eyepieces for the night

[turtle86]

Good advice about trying to foist our toys on folks.

 

 

I agree.  It can take a lot of effort and planning to go to a dark site, and most folks are there *because* they don't want to be subject to light pollution.  I have a NV device myself and really like it, but sure wouldn't foist it upon others under those circumstances.

[turtle86]

Went to a star party for a few days (had to cut it short due to family emergencies). Someone there had a night vision unit. Unfortunately I didn't get many looks and it didn't seem to be in focus completely when I did look. Didn't appear to be quite as good as my unit from what I could tell. But can't really compare given I didn't have mine with me. My friend said he thought my unit was probably better, but still said it worked well.

 

If that person is on here, I suggest not pushing NV on people.

 

He only brought his NV unit, so he was using it in other people's scopes. But he was pushing people to use it who were doing visual. And it made them uncomfortable and it ruined their night vision (with night vision...that's funny). I figure that's because he didn't bring a scope. Had I brought my full amount of scopes I would have just let him use my 10 inch dob...but I did a minimal setup this time.

 

Was a bit disappointing to not get a good sense of another unit, since I've only looked through mine. And unfortunately my trip was cut short. I used my 25x100 binos most of the time. That worked out pretty well, but I only got one night and the transparency wasn't great most of the time.

 

I'm sometimes quite hesitant to use NV in club member's scopes. And I always ask if they want to try it. I usually wait until the majority of newbies have left since I feel it's awkward to share NV with them. They just bought a 400-500 dollar scope. Then they see this crazy stuff and ask how much it costs. 5K+ isn't exactly realistic for people at this level of the hobby. But the experienced observers who come are OK to show it to. However, I think they may have a bit of a bad taste now so I may keep my NV to myself a bit more. 

 

Quite bummed about having to leave early. It was so nice to unplug from phones/work/personal issues/etc. for a few days. And it was nice to have good conversations with some of the older attendees at lunch/dinner.

 

I did my first real outreach also (outside of club events). I setup my solar scopes and showed a lot of people sun spots. We also had an HA setup and a Quark zoomed in on another scope. Showed that to a good amount of new folks. I have social anxiety disorder and a few other anxiety issues. But the new medicine seems to be helping with that (unless the situation is stronger in nature). TMI I realize. But I feel like focusing on hobbies and connecting with real people is helpful. I've not been on here much lately, but this used to be my primary source of connection for quite some time. But face to face much more impactful.

 

Sorry for the long post. I still would like to compare units sometime with a better situation.

 

The person with the NV should've brought his own scope.

[Mazerski]

Hey GO... I was going to write this last year but wasn't sure how to post it in a context but now you provided that:

 

So, end of Sept 2023 my wife and I were north of Flagstaff AZ for a lecture by the world's most famous archeologist (Egyptologist) Zahi Hawass as he talked about ancient Egypt and mythology / night sky. It was very good (he's a real showman). When he finished it wasn't quite dark and a group of guys from various parts of the country had their telescopes set up in a large clearing. The largest scope was an 18" Dob and I complemented the owner as he made it himself (this guy drove from outside Chicago). Anyway, I had my Mod3 with 135mm Nikon lens, filter(s) and adapter in case I could use it in one of the scopes. 

 

When dark I made an announcement that I had a night vision device and equipped to slide in a focuser if anyone was interested. No comments from the scope owners at all and I let it drop. At one point the guy with the 18" scope was pointing in vicinity of Cassiopeia and I said are you looking at the Pacman nebula and added that NV was great to view nebulosity. In front of my wife and a handful of people (from the lecture) he told me I need to bring my own scope.

 

One scope owner's son asked if he could look, and he was wowed by the summer star clouds and bright nebula but didn't say anything to his father. Another guy asked to look, and he said he owned a PVS14 and really liked the hand-held aspect of the c-mount.

 

I don't know what the "the" is with NV as I got vivid in my face proof that some observers aren't even willing to look.

Edited by Mazerski, 08 July 2024 - 03:42 PM.

[sixela]

he told me I need to bring my own scope.

"Oh, I can see it just fine using my 135 mm lens". A 135mm lens is a scope, innit?

Edited by sixela, 08 July 2024 - 04:42 PM.

[Mike Lockwood]

I find that some people don't want to use it because 1) it can ruin nightvision, 2) they are purists and consider it cheating and not "real" observing, and 3) they have no idea what it's capable of, especially with narrowband filters.

 

So, I just use it myself and people still stop by for a look.

 

If you walk around offering to use it in scopes, I'm pretty sure eventually you will get a taker.

 

I find that the percentage of people who don't understand the diopter adjustment is fairly high.

Edited by Mike Lockwood, 08 July 2024 - 04:48 PM.

[Mazerski]

Nah, when I asked the guy about Pacman, I had an adapter in place, and he didn't see the Nikon lens. I thought about this after it happened if I could have handled it differently, but I came up with zip. 

 

My wife said afterwards that the scope owners may have thought I was trying to steal their thunder. Who knows. 

[GOLGO13]

It's a tricky situation. Some star party people can be pretty serious and focused on specific efforts they planned. Some visual observers very glass focused.

Good to hear from you all. This is similar to the smart telescope stuff going on. I've been dabbling and enjoying the Seestar myself.

Social skills not always the strong suit of the folks in our hobby (including me).

Unfortunately, my father will be passing anytime now. But I got to see him and say my goodbyes.

[ButterFly]

The kind of star party matters quite a bit.  If it's individual people there doing there own thing, they may not want to disrupt their plan by looking at something quite bright.  For mostly outreach events, I have no issues holding my device up to whatever eyepiece they have on, with an h-alpha filter in front.  I ask whether the host wants to take a look, telling them to use the neckstrap.  If they enjoy what they see, I may have the 67 plossl in my purse, and ask whether their focuser can handle it, letting them hold it first.  The takers are up in the high 80% range, but only when the lines aren't long.  I have had my device in well over a hundred scopes this way.

 

If you happen across another with a 1x unit, use them both together as binoculars.  The view is just as bright without a splitting prism, and the noise to each eye is different.  The brain simply loves that!  I saw a whole lot more to the Rosette/Cone complex with two tubes than I ever did with one.  Binocular summation with the same level of brightness and different noise characteristics is just intensified with intensifiers.  Pointing them in the same direction was a lot easier than we thought it would be.  It was too early in the season for Vela, but the thought of that alone makes me want to get another PVS14.  Ramen to that!

 

 

Hey GO... I was going to write this last year but wasn't sure how to post it in a context but now you provided that:

 

So, end of Sept 2023 my wife and I were north of Flagstaff AZ for a lecture by the world's most famous archeologist (Egyptologist) Zahi Hawass as he talked about ancient Egypt and mythology / night sky. It was very good (he's a real showman). When he finished it wasn't quite dark and a group of guys from various parts of the country had their telescopes set up in a large clearing. The largest scope was an 18" Dob and I complemented the owner as he made it himself (this guy drove from outside Chicago). Anyway, I had my Mod3 with 135mm Nikon lens, filter(s) and adapter in case I could use it in one of the scopes. 

 

When dark I made an announcement that I had a night vision device and equipped to slide in a focuser if anyone was interested. No comments from the scope owners at all and I let it drop. At one point the guy with the 18" scope was pointing in vicinity of Cassiopeia and I said are you looking at the Pacman nebula and added that NV was great to view nebulosity. In front of my wife and a handful of people (from the lecture) he told me I need to bring my own scope.

 

One scope owner's son asked if he could look, and he was wowed by the summer star clouds and bright nebula but didn't say anything to his father. Another guy asked to look, and he said he owned a PVS14 and really liked the hand-held aspect of the c-mount.

 

I don't know what the "the" is with NV as I got vivid in my face proof that some observers aren't even willing to look.

It was 2022, and you forgot to mention all the gopher holes the field they set up in was riddled with.  Fortunately, you didn't find one in the dark!  Unfortunately, no one had told me to bring my scope that night, so we couldn't swap back and forth.

 

In the future, ask one person at a time, rather than making an announcement.  The way one asks matters, particularly when you don't know your audience.  Start with a 1x view through whatever eyepiece is in the focuser as well.

 

I did indeed like the hand-held aspect of c-mount, but I did caveat it with "for wildlife".  3-4x leaves me wanting more for astro use.  I'm totally satisfied with the jump from 1x to 7x I get from my scopes for astro use between 1x and my 80mm.  It's also on a tripod, so I don't have to hold it.  For a quick peek out the door though, it's nice, but my 80mm is just a matter of moving it outside.  My f/3.5 finder works fine handheld, but I really never use it.

[GOLGO13]

When dark I made an announcement that I had a night vision device and equipped to slide in a focuser if anyone was interested. No comments from the scope owners at all and I let it drop. At one point the guy with the 18" scope was pointing in vicinity of Cassiopeia and I said are you looking at the Pacman nebula and added that NV was great to view nebulosity. In front of my wife and a handful of people (from the lecture) he told me I need to bring my own scope.

That's pretty harsh. Possibly he's had that type of thing happen in the past. I know I've gone to some scope get togethers and people didn't want to share the view through their scopes. I wasn't used to that sort of thing. 

 

I think in the case I was discussing, it seemed like it was pushing too hard and seemed to be utilizing other folk's scopes even if they were not interested. 

 

If I was in that situation (of course normally I'd say sure), I would just say no thanks, I'm wanting to stick to glass today. Or something like that.

[turtle86]

That's pretty harsh. Possibly he's had that type of thing happen in the past. I know I've gone to some scope get togethers and people didn't want to share the view through their scopes. I wasn't used to that sort of thing. 

 

I think in the case I was discussing, it seemed like it was pushing too hard and seemed to be utilizing other folk's scopes even if they were not interested. 

 

If I was in that situation (of course normally I'd say sure), I would just say no thanks, I'm wanting to stick to glass today. Or something like that.

 

I agree. It doesn't take a lot of effort to decline politely. No need to be rude.

[Mazerski]

GO:

 

That's pretty harsh. Possibly he's had that type of thing happen in the past. I know I've gone to some scope get togethers and people didn't want to share the view through their scopes. I wasn't used to that sort of thing.

 

=== I guess you had to be there and all I said was if anyone is interested in seeing some familiar objects with NV, I have one with adapter to slide in the focuser === 

 

I thought what I said was ok but apparently not. 

[ButterFly]

GO:

 

That's pretty harsh. Possibly he's had that type of thing happen in the past. I know I've gone to some scope get togethers and people didn't want to share the view through their scopes. I wasn't used to that sort of thing.

 

=== I guess you had to be there and all I said was if anyone is interested in seeing some familiar objects with NV, I have one with adapter to slide in the focuser === 

 

I thought what I said was ok but apparently not. 

But is that really all you recall happening?  So you made this announcement, then later this person at a particular scope told you you should have brought your own scope, unprovoked?

As I recall, no one responded to your announcement.  Then you kept asking the particular operator, who had a line, and had already said NO.  From the outside, all it looked like was that you had found someone's limit.  As a general rule, if you try one method of persuasion, and it doesn't work for someone, it won't work the third time either.  Either try a different method, or move on.

[Mazerski]

Butterfly 

You are correct in that it was 2022. Were you there under that big white tent? 
== I made a simple announcement to all the scope owners that I had NV if anyone would like to try. No response and I didn’t say anything else until…

 

== Later the guy with the 18” had scope pointing in area of Cassiopeia so I asked just him ( just him) if he was looking at the Pac-Man nebula and I said NV is great at revealing nebulosity. That’s when he told me to bring my own scope 

[GOLGO13]

Butterfly 

You are correct in that it was 2022. Were you there under that big white tent? 
== I made a simple announcement to all the scope owners that I had NV if anyone would like to try. No response and I didn’t say anything else until…

 

== Later the guy with the 18” had scope pointing in area of Cassiopeia so I asked just him ( just him) if he was looking at the Pac-Man nebula and I said NV is great at revealing nebulosity. That’s when he told me to bring my own scope 

It's all good. Best to not worry about it anymore. Likely just a guy that doesn't have much tact. Easy for me to say to not worry, as I have multiple anxiety disorders and cannot turn off my worry very easily. 

 

Ironically I say "no worries" all the time. 

 

I've found stargazing groups vary greatly. Some very serious and some really chill. Some really helpful to new people, and some not wanting to be bothered. 

 

I'm more in the non serious and share the view type of person. For how much I spend on astronomy and stuff related, I'm actually not that into the astronomy part of it. I'm much more interested in the technical part of it and the telescope and accessories. I have every single Sky and Telescope magazine (physical copies) and a good amount of "The Sky" before it combined with "The Telescope". But often I fall asleep reading astronomy based articles. Not that I don't find it interesting, but it can quite quickly put me to sleep. But give me a book based on the technical aspects (like Star Ware by Phillip Harrington) and I can read the whole thing. 

[Mazerski]

GO,

 

I chalked it up to their loss. Sky & Telescope -- do you have a dedicated room filled floor to ceiling with boxes? Years ago, I thought I was bad collecting as many Scientific American magazines for the Mathematical Column by Martin Gardner. Years later I picked up a CD with his works and I only have 1 or 2 paper copies left (one is on the Roger Penrose Dart and Kite tiles).

[cnoct]

That's awful, condolences to you and family, good that you got to see him though.

 

Unfortunately, my father will be passing anytime now. But I got to see him and say my goodbyes.

[The Ardent]

Sorry to hear this. Sympathies to you.

Unfortunately, my father will be passing anytime now. But I got to see him and say my goodbyes.

[The Ardent]

I am opposed to presenting NV to observers who don’t ask for it. If they ask, that’s different.

I am very opposed to showing it to the public . I feel it’s no different than the color pictures on the box , gives the wrong expectation and sticker shock.

The person who first introduced me to NV was at Green Bank. He has a Collins I3. It was fifteen years ago and we looked at M42 with my 18”. Saw many more stars in the nebulousity . Interesting but not captivating at the time.

[GOLGO13]

GO,

 

I chalked it up to their loss. Sky & Telescope -- do you have a dedicated room filled floor to ceiling with boxes? Years ago, I thought I was bad collecting as many Scientific American magazines for the Mathematical Column by Martin Gardner. Years later I picked up a CD with his works and I only have 1 or 2 paper copies left (one is on the Roger Penrose Dart and Kite tiles).

It was a bit of a crazy endeavor. My poor post office lady had to deal with a lot of heavy boxes over the covid timeframe. I keep the newest few years in my bedroom, and the older ones are in the basement. My basement is pretty large and I keep it dry. I wish I could share them a bit with people. One thing that is really fun is when S&T gives you information about a historical article in the new one. They talked in a newer article once about an observatory that was being fixed up. There was an article in a really old one about the creation of the observatory. That was super cool reading both articles. I also really like seeing the advertisements from the years...especially from the 80s...where there were a ton of ads in the magazines.