18 replies to this topic

[Wdh]

Hi All,

 

There are at least four separate threads describing an Evolution mount behavior where the mount will take a sharp jerk or jump with a press of a slow speed slew button. I have had my mount in to Celestron service twice, with the techs unable to replicate the issue. I know that several other folks have had a similar experience. My mount is currently back at Celestron for repair, which turned out to be fortuitous.

 

I got a call last week from Derik DeVecchio, Celestron's firmware engineer. He had some theories about a cause, and promised to test my mount personally. I'm happy to say that he was able to duplicate the problem, and trace it to a mount firmware bug. He worked with me remotely today to confirm that the problem he replicated was the one I've been experiencing.

 

Derik will post a beta version of mount firmware this week with a fix! He knows I'm posting this here, and is happy to have the news out in the CN community.

 

I'm very happy that this seems to be resolved- It's been driving me nuts for over a year. I know that Derik has been totally swamped with the launch of Origin, and I really appreciate that he took the time to look into this.

 

I'll update when I have further details- thanks again to Derik!

 

Bill

[Tulloch]

Don't hold your breath.

 

I was in more-or-less constant contact with Derik on the Team Celestron website a few years ago, I showed him the problem, he replicated it and promised me a fix for this issue in August 2022.

 

Hope to see this issue fixed soon, if you get confirmation of the new firmware please post it here, I'll watch with anticipation.

 

Thanks, Andrew

Edited by Tulloch, 09 July 2024 - 05:52 PM.

[Wdh]

Hi all- here’s an update. New beta Evolution mount firmware (7.18.2214) has been posted by Derik DeVecchio that appears to resolve the problem. Here’s the link:
https://teamcelestro....php?f=70&t=191

When my mount comes back I will verify that it’s fixed and report back, but Derik is confident he identified the issue.

Bill

[mlord]

"You are not authorised to read this forum."

[Wdh]

"You are not authorised to read this forum."

Hmm- I’m waiting for an activation email and will try when I get it. I registered a new account, as my old one was flagged as inactive. 

[Wdh]

This from Derik:

 

Since it is on the beta portion of the site, you need to

Get an account on TeamCelestron.   I haven’t had to do that in 15 yerars, but I can try again this afternoon and make sure that mechanism is still working
Once you have your account you need to request access to become a beta testers.   There are instructions on the site.     It’s a manual process so I need to approve each account manually.  I am supposed get an email with each request, and in the old days I did, and I could usually get people approvecd in a few hours.   But now I don’t get that.    So I just have to remember.   Anyone who wants to expedite can just send me an email at ddevecchio@celestron.com.
This manual approval is required because it is the only way to keep spammers at bay.  Otherwise, you get 100 accounts and 1000 messages per day advertising crypto schemes.   It is absolutely impossible to stay on top of it with the time I have.  So we have this manual sup

 

Bill

[mlord]

Okay, running Evolution mount beta firmware 7.18.2214  here now.

Seems to be fine, but I never noticed the original "jerky slew" behaviour in the past.

 

EDIT:  Mmm.. listening to it move, there's something not quite right..

Edited by mlord, 23 July 2024 - 09:08 AM.

[Wdh]

Okay, running Evolution mount beta firmware 7.18.2214  here now.

Seems to be fine, but I never noticed the original "jerky slew" behaviour in the past.

 

EDIT:  Mmm.. listening to it move, there's something not quite right..

Mark,my mount is on the way back, and I look forward to seeing if the issue is resolved. I do have a lot more information about the cause and symptom after my session with Derik where he reproduced the issue with my mount. 
 

I’ll see if we can get a formal description, but basically it is an oscillation condition that is encountered when the mount is tracking and a momentary low speed slew command is issued. Instead of slewing, the mount jumps to a new position during the time the command is initiated, by a press of a slew button for instance, and no slew is actually initiated. When the button is released, the mount jumps back to the original position. In each case the jump is very audible, and the mount jerk is obvious. Also, it does not have to be a physical button- a command from CPWI, ASIAIR, or another control device evidences the same behavior, as it is a mount firmware issue. 
 

One reason I have encountered the issue so frequently is that my main use for the C8 Evo is planetary capture/lucky imaging with capture software like FireCapture and SharpCap. It is a common use case to capture a planet within a reduced ROI on the sensor, and even excellent tracking requires minor tweaking of slew at the lowest speeds to keep the planet within the ROI during capture. 
 

This use case may well be never or rarely encountered in other AP or visual scenarios. 
 

Either way, it has plagued several of us for quite a while, and it will be great if the firmware resolves the issue without introducing any new wrinkles. 
 

Bill

[Tulloch]

Mark,my mount is on the way back, and I look forward to seeing if the issue is resolved. I do have a lot more information about the cause and symptom after my session with Derik where he reproduced the issue with my mount. 
 

I’ll see if we can get a formal description, but basically it is an oscillation condition that is encountered when the mount is tracking and a momentary low speed slew command is issued. Instead of slewing, the mount jumps to a new position during the time the command is initiated, by a press of a slew button for instance, and no slew is actually initiated. When the button is released, the mount jumps back to the original position. In each case the jump is very audible, and the mount jerk is obvious. Also, it does not have to be a physical button- a command from CPWI, ASIAIR, or another control device evidences the same behavior, as it is a mount firmware issue. 
 

One reason I have encountered the issue so frequently is that my main use for the C8 Evo is planetary capture/lucky imaging with capture software like FireCapture and SharpCap. It is a common use case to capture a planet within a reduced ROI on the sensor, and even excellent tracking requires minor tweaking of slew at the lowest speeds to keep the planet within the ROI during capture. 
 

This use case may well be never or rarely encountered in other AP or visual scenarios. 
 

Either way, it has plagued several of us for quite a while, and it will be great if the firmware resolves the issue without introducing any new wrinkles. 
 

Bill

Exactly my problem too. Short sharp movement in the alt axis at slow speeds while tracking an object causes the mount to jerk a great distance before returning to a "similar" position once the button is released. As Bill says, this is probably more noticeable when imaging (or viewing) the planets, to keep the target in the FOV at long focal lengths. I never saw the issue in azimuth.

 

Here is a video (from 2021) showing the issue in the field, I sent this to Derik way back then. Looking forward to applying the firmware update and removing this problem.

 

https://drive.google...?usp=drive_link

 

Andrew

Edited by Tulloch, 23 July 2024 - 06:20 PM.

[Wdh]

I finally got the mount back with the updated firmware, and I got a chance to play around on Saturn in the wee hours of the morning. I can only report so far so good. I used slew speed 1 and 2 extensively, with no issues. I tested with a single object solar system align from the Hand Controller, and then with CPWI via Bluetooth with the HBG3 and nunchuck. It’s hard to prove a negative, but signs are very promising. Plus I got my first planetary capture if the season!

[Tulloch]

I finally got the mount back with the updated firmware, and I got a chance to play around on Saturn in the wee hours of the morning. I can only report so far so good. I used slew speed 1 and 2 extensively, with no issues. I tested with a single object solar system align from the Hand Controller, and then with CPWI via Bluetooth with the HBG3 and nunchuck. It’s hard to prove a negative, but signs are very promising. Plus I got my first planetary capture if the season!

Sounds good, thanks for chasing this up with Derik and the team.

[Wdh]

I had a chance to do another long session with the new firmware this morning. Wow, it’s a pleasure to use speeds 1 and 2 without the dreaded jump, clunk, or whatever we’re calling the oscillation. Planetary imagers rejoice!

[Tulloch]

I’ve had one session since upgrading, didn’t have an issue with the mount. Looks like the new firmware works.

[Wdh]

I’ve had one session since upgrading, didn’t have an issue with the mount. Looks like the new firmware works.

Andrew, I've had two multi-hour sessions for the past two nights. What a pleasure it is to be able to use speeds 1 and 2! It's like how you feel after you stop hitting yourself in the head with a hammer- or so I imagine...

[Tulloch]

Andrew, I've had two multi-hour sessions for the past two nights. What a pleasure it is to be able to use speeds 1 and 2! It's like how you feel after you stop hitting yourself in the head with a hammer- or so I imagine...

Yep, I've had another couple of sessions and have had no problem. I had a workaround to the problem on speeds 1 and 2 (ie press for a long time rather than a series of short presses), however it is nice to have the mount "just work" as it used to.

 

Andrew

[Astro_Bryan]

Any word from Celestron when this fix will be out of Beta and available for download from Celestron?

[Wdh]

Any word from Celestron when this fix will be out of Beta and available for download from Celestron?

That’s a great question. The new firmware has been a game changer for me, but I haven’t been able to get access to the beta site either- not that I need it at the moment. I just sent Derik an email asking him about it, copying Wil Garcia at Celestron support. I will report back if I hear anything. I’m sure a call to Celestron support wouldn’t hurt either. It took me close to a year to get it resolved. I know Derik is swamped with Origin related work. 

[mlord]

Any word from Celestron when this fix will be out of Beta and available for download from Celestron?

Isn't it already?  EDIT:  Yes, it is already out in general release.

Edited by mlord, 30 September 2024 - 02:33 PM.

[Wdh]

Isn't it already?  EDIT:  Yes, it is already out in general release.

That’s great to hear, Mark. It doesn’t show on their firmware history page on the Celestron site, but I haven’t looked at what CFM loads, since I already have the firmware and don’t want to screw with anything!