38 replies to this topic

[Nankins]

Tony has a good point.

 

There are those who don't see it and there are those who can't see it. Two different things.

 

For that matter, there are those who won't see it even though they could see it.

In my experience those who don't see it and those who can't see it are usually the same.  Everyone I know who lives in a rural area and some I know who live in town but have relatives in a rural area has seen the Milky Way, as they tend to mention it at some point or other, or when I tell them I am an amateur.  Those who can't see it and have never been outside of an area where they can't see it are often amazed that they can see it even when it is barely visible.  For instance there were people at the Indiana Family Star Party last year who were members of the general public, and they were awed by the fact that the Milky Way was that slightly brighter band of light across the sky, and I was not awed by the fact that it was barely visible in a B5/B6 area sandwiched between two mostly LED light domes! Btw I have excellent vision, so even in my home area with a high B4 or slightly less I can see the Milky Way into Cassiopeia as well as on occasional the winter Milky Way looking a little "suck in the breath" beautiful.  M23, M8, M24, M6, M7, M31 all naked eye.  M33 I have yet to see for sure naked eye but I think it can be done.  I have actually managed to resolve 3 stars in the hook of Collinder 399 (the Coathanger open cluster) with the naked eye near the zenith.  

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Most people I know have absolutely no idea of what the Milky Way looks like.

I remember being in Baskatong QC (middle of nowhere in the Canadian woods) with some friends.

 

We went outside at night, the view was amazing.

A couple said "Hey, there must be some forest fires around, like at that smoke column going up to the sky".

They were looking at the Milky Way, they couldn't believe they were looking at our own Galaxy plane.

[mountain monk]

Indeed. Among my friends, knowledge of the night sky is pathetic. It’s usually limited to the Moon.

 

Dark skies.

 

Jack

[Tony Flanders]

Indeed. Among my friends, knowledge of the night sky is pathetic. It’s usually limited to the Moon.

Right. And given the fact that you live in one of the least densely populated areas in the Lower 48, most of your friends could likely view the Milky Way whenever they want to.
 
I remember some time ago a post from a beginner on Vancouver Island (on the dry side) who had never seen the Milky Way. Given that there's only a handful of significant settlements on that whole gigantic island, he surely cannot have tried very hard.

I suspect there are quite a lot of people who could see the Milky Way with ease if only they turned off their insecurity lights, but in fact have never done so.

[mountain monk]

Yes, folks here are downright obsessed with the daytime sky because they are also obsessed with hiking, climbing, biking, rafting, kayaking, fishing, etc., in good weather, but they ignore the sky at night—even when camping and sleeping outside! Incredible.

 

Dark skies.

 

Jack

[Jehujones]

Right. And given the fact that you live in one of the least densely populated areas in the Lower 48, most of your friends could likely view the Milky Way whenever they want to.
 
I remember some time ago a post from a beginner on Vancouver Island (on the dry side) who had never seen the Milky Way. Given that there's only a handful of significant settlements on that whole gigantic island, he surely cannot have tried very hard.

I suspect there are quite a lot of people who could see the Milky Way with ease if only they turned off their insecurity lights, but in fact have never done so.

…and never will. Hence, ‘those who won’t see it’

[Those Who Squirm!]

I really wonder though, what do commercial fishing boats (and any big ships in general) see, when they're in the middle of the ocean

they have bortle 1; lucky guys!

I don't know about cargo ships, but I can tell you that the old simile comparing a passenger ship to a floating city is very apt. Those things are lit up at night like a traveling carnival. You can hardly see the sky at all for all the artificial lighting.



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Edited by Those Who Squirm!, 24 July 2024 - 12:16 AM.

[Those Who Squirm!]

San Diego area

I think a B3/B4 site is sort of near

but B1 is far away

I'm in B7 according to ClearOutside, and B5 according to lightpollutionmap, so I don't know what's the truth

You should easily be able to reach B3 in the more remote areas of North County. Lake Wohlford, north of Escondido might be a good place to try first. The local hills block the lower level sky glow, and the 1500' elevation doesn't hurt either. Bring a warm coat if you go in the winter.

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Edited by Those Who Squirm!, 23 July 2024 - 01:31 PM.

[Forward Scatter]

Maybe a better metric would be the percentage of people who would pull their eyes and brains from their devices and look up in the first place.

[Bill Barlow]

I’ve never seen the Milky Way from my yard here, which is heavily light polluted.  But at our astro clubs darker site 30 miles south of here, it is visible, but not as bright as 10 years ago when the site was darker.

 

The 2020 world light pollution map shows vast areas of Africa, South America, Australia, Alaska, Russia, Canada and the western United Staes where skies are very dark.  So I would expect residents in these areas could easily see the Milky Way.  
 

Bill

[CHASLX200]

I’ve never seen the Milky Way from my yard here, which is heavily light polluted.  But at our astro clubs darker site 30 miles south of here, it is visible, but not as bright as 10 years ago when the site was darker.

 

The 2020 world light pollution map shows vast areas of Africa, South America, Australia, Alaska, Russia, Canada and the western United Staes where skies are very dark.  So I would expect residents in these areas could easily see the Milky Way.  
 

Bill

Saw it one time in Tampa less than a mile from the airport where i lived in the AM in March in 1986 on a freaky clear nite.  Most of it was in the south that i could see.

[Nankins]

Maybe a better metric would be the percentage of people who would pull their eyes and brains from their devices and look up in the first place.

Agreed.

[Nankins]

I’ve never seen the Milky Way from my yard here, which is heavily light polluted.  But at our astro clubs darker site 30 miles south of here, it is visible, but not as bright as 10 years ago when the site was darker.

 

The 2020 world light pollution map shows vast areas of Africa, South America, Australia, Alaska, Russia, Canada and the western United Staes where skies are very dark.  So I would expect residents in these areas could easily see the Milky Way.  
 

Bill

The western United States is getting more light polluted than it was even just in 2020.  Go look up the latest light pollution map. Not even the light pollution maps themselves create a perfect idea of how bad the problem is. I have found that many of them tell viewers a location is darker than it actually is.  You also have to take distant light domes and background sky contrast into consideration.  

[Those Who Squirm!]

San Diego area

 

I think a B3/B4 site is sort of near

 

but B1 is far away

 

I'm in B7 according to ClearOutside, and B5 according to lightpollutionmap, so I don't know what's the truth

I heard somewhere, possibly right here, that under a B5 sky you should be able to see the Milky Way at least occasionally, under optimal conditions of the clearest weather and full nighttime darkness for your area (i.e. no twilight or dawnlight).  The MW won't appear anywhere nearly as bright as it would in a rural setting, but you can notice it if you look for it, especially in the brighter regions like the Summer Triangle when overhead.  If you photograph it with a DSLR, a tripod, and a fast lens, your camera will bring out a lot more detail than your eyes can. 

 

The first time I saw the MW here I thought it was some thin clouds.

 

If all of this sounds familiar to you, then your sky is probably around B5.  There's a huge difference between B7 and B5, so I can only wonder why Clear Outside reports the latter figure.  CO reports B5 for me, same as LP.info.