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Another Night Vision Newbie Inbound

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#1 Hello_There

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Posted 19 July 2024 - 11:56 AM

Well, I've been drooling over the potential of night vision astronomy for long enough and I decided to take the plunge, I'm about to receive a Gen 3 White Phosphor AGM PVS-14 device and I have a few questions.

 

1. I want to use this device afocally with my Baader Hyperion Zoom Mark IV, what adapter should I buy? (a link would be very appreciated) Or should I get an adapter to make it afocal with my 30mm APM UFF?

 

2. Is it a good idea to use a Baader Hyperion Zoom Mark IV for afocal work or will the focal ratio be too low when used with my F/5 10" Dob? (I also understand using the zoom will result in internal reflections around the 12mm mark, but I can live without those magnifications)

 

3. What's a good filter for general purposes, I alternate between Flagstaff and Scottsdale Az and would like to minimize light pollution impact.

 

4. Should I extend this to outreach purposes? I am a bit worried if people ask about cost, it might discourage folks from getting into the hobby.

 

5. Any thing I should avoid doing with the night vision device? Should I not point it anywhere near the Moon, Jupiter, etc.

 

6. Any good maintenance habits?

 

7. Anything else you think I should know about night vision astronomy?

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out!



#2 Speedy1985

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Posted 19 July 2024 - 12:45 PM

Well, I've been drooling over the potential of night vision astronomy for long enough and I decided to take the plunge, I'm about to receive a Gen 3 White Phosphor AGM PVS-14 device and I have a few questions.

 

1. I want to use this device afocally with my Baader Hyperion Zoom Mark IV, what adapter should I buy? (a link would be very appreciated) Or should I get an adapter to make it afocal with my 30mm APM UFF?

 

2. Is it a good idea to use a Baader Hyperion Zoom Mark IV for afocal work or will the focal ratio be too low when used with my F/5 10" Dob? (I also understand using the zoom will result in internal reflections around the 12mm mark, but I can live without those magnifications)

 

3. What's a good filter for general purposes, I alternate between Flagstaff and Scottsdale Az and would like to minimize light pollution impact.

 

4. Should I extend this to outreach purposes? I am a bit worried if people ask about cost, it might discourage folks from getting into the hobby.

 

5. Any thing I should avoid doing with the night vision device? Should I not point it anywhere near the Moon, Jupiter, etc.

 

6. Any good maintenance habits?

 

7. Anything else you think I should know about night vision astronomy?

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out!

Congrats on taking the plunge, you won’t be disappointed! I’ll answer the best I can.

 

1. For the Baader zoom, you’d have to get an adapter to go from the ocular threads on the front of the PVS-14 to the threads under the eyecup on the zoom. I believe there are a few NV using members that use the zoom so maybe they will chime in. Try a few different search terms in this section and you might get some answers too. I have the 30mm APM UFF as well and I have an adapter that I had made for my APM XWA eyepieces that works on it. For whatever reason, the UFF threads are ever so slightly different than the others, but it works. I’ll see if I can find the link for it. 
 

2. The shorter focal lengths on the zoom are really only better for certain objects. There is a thread in the section right now discussing the same zoom. For nebula, you will want a faster effective focal ratio to increase the brightness. The NV monocular is equivalent to a 27mm eyepiece, so eyepieces longer than that act as a reducer and shorter as a barlow. In the case of nebula, especially larger ones, the TV 55 plossl with 67mm converter is the most widely used. At f/5, it gives you an effective focal ratio of about 2((27/67)*5). 
 

3. Generally speaking, you’ll need h-alpha and long pass filters. Most use between a 3 and 7nm h-a and I’d think a 6.5-7 would be a good place to start. For long pass, a 685nm is the most popular. 
 

4. It’s an expensive device for sure, plus the accessories so it’s up to you. You might want to just spend some time getting to understand its effectiveness and useful eyepieces for your own purposes first. 
 

5. Definitely no bright objects like the moon and planets, even head and streetlights. I even try to avoid some of the very bright stars.

 

6. About the only thing I do is remove the battery after each use so there is no chance of leakage in the unit.

 

7. The beauty of the device is that even at 1x handheld, you can go out and just pan the sky. That’s what blew me away the first time I used it. Televue makes a filter adapter that allows you to use a 2” filter in front of it. There are also 3x magnifiers made for it, but search the forum about the correct one because it makes a difference.

 

Good luck, I’m sure you’ll get plenty of other feedback here!


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#3 sixela

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Posted 19 July 2024 - 01:29 PM

The Baader zoom has M43 threads. You have M43->M42 adapters and you have a RAF camera adapter from the PVS-14 objective threads to M42. As others have said, I would add a long focal length eyepiece like the TV67 for nebulae; that one attaches with a special TV adapter to the PVS-14 objective threads.
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#4 RaulBloodworth

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Posted 19 July 2024 - 01:49 PM

It sounds like you already purchased the AGM device, were you able to acquire it at a discount off MSRP? I've seen people that get good tubes out of them but also seen some that come with "less than ideal" specs in other categories, and if buying new it doesn't seem like you get to pick your device/specs. I hope you are one of the people who acquire a really good tube!

 

Welcome to the club!


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#5 Hello_There

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 02:38 AM

It sounds like you already purchased the AGM device, were you able to acquire it at a discount off MSRP? I've seen people that get good tubes out of them but also seen some that come with "less than ideal" specs in other categories, and if buying new it doesn't seem like you get to pick your device/specs. I hope you are one of the people who acquire a really good tube!

 

Welcome to the club!

Thank you for the warm welcome! So I was actually able to snag a really good deal within the classified ads section here on Cloudy nights, it's used but in like new condition with a spec sheet specificizing some of the metrics of the device itself! 


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#6 Speedy1985

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 07:15 AM

Thank you for the warm welcome! So I was actually able to snag a really good deal within the classified ads section here on Cloudy nights, it's used but in like new condition with a spec sheet specificizing some of the metrics of the device itself! 

That’s great that you were able to find one. If you want, post the specs of the unit. Don’t post a pic of the actual spec sheet though, it’s not allowed.


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#7 Mauro Da Lio

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 08:38 AM

There is a Raf Camera adapter from PVS-14 to M43.

 

https://www.cloudyni...ader-zoom-8-24/

 

https://www.cloudyni...cho-tube/page-5


Edited by Mauro Da Lio, 21 July 2024 - 08:41 AM.

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#8 Mauro Da Lio

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 08:47 AM

 I have the 30mm APM UFF as well and I have an adapter that I had made for my APM XWA eyepieces that works on it. 

As far as I know there is no RAF Camera adapter for the UFF 30 and the one for the XWA is listed for a slightly different thread (M44.5x0.75). https://rafcamera.co...-to-m44-5x0-75f

 

The UFF 30 is M45x0.75. Happy to know it works. Anyway you can ask RafCamera (perhaps they make the exact thread).


Edited by Mauro Da Lio, 21 July 2024 - 08:48 AM.

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#9 Speedy1985

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 11:31 AM

As far as I know there is no RAF Camera adapter for the UFF 30 and the one for the XWA is listed for a slightly different thread (M44.5x0.75). https://rafcamera.co...-to-m44-5x0-75f

 

The UFF 30 is M45x0.75. Happy to know it works. Anyway you can ask RafCamera (perhaps they make the exact thread).

Yes the threads on the UFF are slightly different but the adapter does screw on enough to make the attachment. I was the one who had Raf camera design the XWA adapter once I gave him the thread sizes for the eyepiece and the ocular end of the PVS-14. 


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#10 Joko

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 01:27 PM

 

5. Any thing I should avoid doing with the night vision device? Should I not point it anywhere near the Moon, Jupiter, etc.

You've already had some excellent responses from other NV users.

As far as the Moon and planets are concerned, you can use methane or UV filters. These are very interesting objects to observe.


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#11 Mauro Da Lio

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 03:42 PM

Yes the threads on the UFF are slightly different but the adapter does screw on enough to make the attachment. I was the one who had Raf camera design the XWA adapter once I gave him the thread sizes for the eyepiece and the ocular end of the PVS-14. 

So, If I but the APM UFF 30, I can ask RafCamer for the exact thread diameter?


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#12 Speedy1985

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 04:22 PM

So, If I but the APM UFF 30, I can ask RafCamer for the exact thread diameter?

I did a little digging and Raf already has a couple of adapters you can put together to adapt to the UFF. 

 

M45x0.75 female(UFF end) x M42x1 male https://rafcamera.co...0-75f-to-m42x1m

M42x1 female to M30.3x0.8 male(PVS-14 end)  https://rafcamera.co...f-to-m30-3x0-8m

 

If you don't want to use the 2 adapters together, I'm sure he'd make an M45x0.75F to M30.3x0.8M adapter. 


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#13 Jethro7

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Posted 21 July 2024 - 08:35 PM

Well, I've been drooling over the potential of night vision astronomy for long enough and I decided to take the plunge, I'm about to receive a Gen 3 White Phosphor AGM PVS-14 device and I have a few questions.

 

1. I want to use this device afocally with my Baader Hyperion Zoom Mark IV, what adapter should I buy? (a link would be very appreciated) Or should I get an adapter to make it afocal with my 30mm APM UFF?

I imagine others hhee will be able to help you with an adaptor for the BHZ. Using a Zoom for NVA is not in my wheelhouse but others do.

 

2. Is it a good idea to use a Baader Hyperion Zoom Mark IV for afocal work or will the focal ratio be too low when used with my F/5 10" Dob? (I also understand using the zoom will result in internal reflections around the 12mm mark, but I can live without those magnifications)

I have been at NVA viewing for about five years now. The choice of eyepieces like all eyepiece choices is personal. With that being said, I pretty much use either my Tele Vue 55/67 Plossl or my Nagler 26 these nights. The issue is, the NVD needs light in order to operate and as the exit pupil gets continuously smaller as your focal length shortens the less light the NVD will have to work with and the views will get messy. The Tele Vue 55/67 gives me the widest AFOV and largest exit pupil for Nebuale and the Milkyway. The Tele Vue 26 Nager gives nice views that are still bright for Globular Clusters, close views of parts of Nebulae as well as Galaxies. One of the first things that's going to happen on your first light using a NVD is, you will become very aware of just how big many Nebulae are. 

 

3. What's a good filter for general purposes, I alternate between Flagstaff and Scottsdale Az and would like to minimize light pollution impact.

The filter choices depends on your level of light pollution. In my case, I live under Bortel 8 skies and need to use aggressive filtration. I use only two filters. For Nebuae I use a Antila 2.5nm Ha Narrowband filter. I used a 6nm Ha narrowband filter for several years and it works quite well but the 2.5nm Ha narrowband filter works remarkably better but is twice the cost. For starry objects, I use a Baader 685nm IR Longpass filter. The good news is the 685nm filter is fairly cheap compaired to the Ha filters that get exponentially more expensive as the filter spectrum wave length shortens.

 

4. Should I extend this to outreach purposes? I am a bit worried if people ask about cost, it might discourage folks from getting into the hobby.

Using an NVD for outreach programs has its risk. If someone ask about the cost of a NVA setup, just tell them the truth. It is what it is.

 

5. Any thing I should avoid doing with the night vision device? Should I not point it anywhere near the Moon, Jupiter, etc.

Don't point the NVD at any bright lights source period. IMHO, NVD's are not good for planetary viewing but some users do with proper filtration.  Just for future reference. If you in fact you do point the NVD at a bright light or the Moon and spend any time doing so you will burn an image of the object on the Photocathode screen. However all is not lost. You simply put the cap on the NVD's objective lense turn it on and put it in a drawer and let it run for a day. The NVD will "mostly" heal it self. It's better not to point it at a bright light source in the first place.

 

6. Any good maintenance habits?

Treat the NVD's lenses just like you treat any telescope and eyepiece. These devices are tougher than you think but can still be damaged. If you are not going to use the NVD for a long period, remove the battery. Many folks attach a lanyard to their NVDs to protect the NVD from being accidently dropped. The PVS14 has a spec life of 10,000 hours but I always double check making sure I turn my NVD off before I secure it after a NVA session or switch to conventional viewing with glass.

 

7. Anything else you think I should know about night vision astronomy?

Stand by to be amazed.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out!

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


Edited by Jethro7, 21 July 2024 - 08:53 PM.

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#14 RaulBloodworth

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Posted 22 July 2024 - 09:28 AM

That’s great that you were able to find one. If you want, post the specs of the unit. Don’t post a pic of the actual spec sheet though, it’s not allowed.

We aren't allowed to post pictures of L3 / Elbit spec sheets, but those spec sheets are also ITAR restricted and say so on them. Doesn't AGM write up their own sheets with just the "actual" values and no Min/Max/Contract numbers? I wonder if those are also ITAR restricted or not.

 

Not to say he should post a picture of it, but I'm curious in the academic sense. Sorry for the off topic post!


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#15 Speedy1985

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Posted 22 July 2024 - 11:22 AM

We aren't allowed to post pictures of L3 / Elbit spec sheets, but those spec sheets are also ITAR restricted and say so on them. Doesn't AGM write up their own sheets with just the "actual" values and no Min/Max/Contract numbers? I wonder if those are also ITAR restricted or not.

 

Not to say he should post a picture of it, but I'm curious in the academic sense. Sorry for the off topic post!

I think any military type device that comes under export control is going to fall into the terms of ITAR regulations, regardless of how they present the specs. That’s why it’s just easier to just write what the specs are vs posting the actual sheet. They don’t specifically use the ITAR acronym, but on this page it mentions export restrictions. 
 

https://www.agmgloba...agm-pvs-14-3aw2


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#16 WheezyGod

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Posted 23 July 2024 - 12:04 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome! So I was actually able to snag a really good deal within the classified ads section here on Cloudy nights, it's used but in like new condition with a spec sheet specificizing some of the metrics of the device itself!


By any chance did you compare the metrics vs. what we’ve recommended as guidelines here? As long as they’re not well below you should be good. Although from what I remember reading about online previously the specs of the AGM tubes aren’t usually an issue. The issue that I heard about with AGM NV devices is the clarity of what you see. I don’t remember what drove this though if it was quality variances in objective/eyepiece lens or quality variances in how the housing is installed.

If everything looks okay to you once you get it then you likely scored a solid NV device for a better price than most of us here bought ours for. If you’re unsure, then I wonder if there’s anyone in your area on CN who has a NV device that you could compare against.

As for what else to get I would get the Televue accessories; the 55mm plossl, the NV adapter, and the 67mm converter. When I got this setup it really showed me how much of a difference a lower focal ratio makes for medium-large objects. I also have a 10in f/5 dob. Before this, unless you already have a TV55 plossl I would get a 1.25in 685nm filter and a 6-7nm ha filter. The latter might be better buying used if you can find one since there’s a good number here that prefer a more aggressive ha filter like 3nm. Or if your astronomy club has ha filters you can borrow or try at their site that might be a better option.
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#17 Mauro Da Lio

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Posted 23 July 2024 - 01:48 PM

Concerning the above recommendations, I would remark that they also depend on which type of objects you like most, what is you observing background and expertise and what is the sky quality.

 

I also have a 10" F/5 dob. For low power I feel the Pentax 40 is already "low". I once had the chance to look into TV67 and, -for me- 18.7x are too low. Sure you see large nebulaes, but you loose a lot in medium and small size ones. 

I also like planetaries and use 156-180x for them, revealing some inner details that are not visible with glass. Many non-h-alpha objects work fine between 24 and 12 mm.

Finally the sky also counts a lot. Ultra narrow band are for heavily polluted sky. Under dark sky I find wide dual bands (e.g., the Baader UHC-S) to work fine. Also, consider the Baader proplanet 642: with a band between 642 to 800 nm, it lets H-alpha in and stops the strongest airglow over 800 nm. The 685 filters cuts h-alpha and may be preferred for heavy pollution.

 

So: which objects, have you a deep sky observing background, what is your sky SQM?


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#18 Deadlake

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Posted 23 July 2024 - 02:21 PM

For the TV67 a SCT comes into play, with the focal length all the image scale you need.

A fast 8-10 Newtonian is also a must and not need for to go afocal.


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#19 WheezyGod

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Posted 23 July 2024 - 07:52 PM

For the TV67 a SCT comes into play, with the focal length all the image scale you need.
A fast 8-10 Newtonian is also a must and not need for to go afocal.


Unfortunately it’s hard to find devices these days without paying a heavy premium that allows you to view in prime. Also without modifying the PVS-14 which comes with some risk.
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#20 Hello_There

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Posted 25 July 2024 - 12:42 PM

https://rafcamera.co...f-to-m30-3x0-8m Thank you everyone so much for the information it has been incredibly helpful!! I just tested the NVG it looks very good! I just want to confirm this is the adapter for the Baader Hyperion Zoom EP? again thank you everyone so much!!



#21 Mauro Da Lio

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Posted 25 July 2024 - 01:22 PM

That is the one I use for the Hyperion Zoom and for the Pentax 40.


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