405 replies to this topic

[Kasmos]

I thought you guys might want a place to express how you feel about the demise of Meade, and or Orion for that matter.

 

I was never much of a Meade fan. I'm not saying they didn't make or sell some nice stuff, but the stories of how Diebel dealt with Cave, then Celestron, and being sort of a copycat always tainted the brand in my mind.

 

So personally I'm pretty much in the Don't Care Camp. Plus it doesn't help since (like others), they really weren't the company they once were anyway.

 

And as for Orion, never dealt with them, and other than some rebranded Vixens, was never much interested in their stuff. 

 

BTW, I realize that both companies may not be gone forever.

Edited by Kasmos, 20 July 2024 - 03:02 AM.

[RalphMeisterTigerMan]

Sad. Definitely. Meade has been around for quite sometime and to see an "instituion" like Meade go under very much sadens me. After all, they have brought us many different models of telescopes, eyepieces and many other accessories. Is this the start of many other manufacturers to also become defunct? I hope not.

 

So yes, I am sad to hear of this. RIP Meade, after all, you've given us so much!

 

Clear skies and keep looking up!

RalphMeisterTigerMan

[Jon Isaacs]

I don't think Meade is gone.  There are manufacturing facilities and value in the name.  Exactly how Meade and Orion will emerge from the current situation, it's anyone's guess as no one on the outside knows what the current situation is.

 

Jon

[TelescopeBah]

If Meade is really gone, then I would say it's a kinda sad. I got kinda partial to the brand probably because my first telescope was a Meade 4504, a 4.5" Reflector that I got lots of enjoyment out of. Also, my second telescope is a Meade lightbridge 12", which I also got many hours of enjoyment out of. Also, one of my favorite eyepieces is my Meade UWA8.8mm.

[CHASLX200]

I don't think Meade is gone.  There are manufacturing facilities and value in the name.  Exactly how Meade and Orion will emerge from the current situation, it's anyone's guess as no one on the outside knows what the current situation is.

 

Jon

Don't care bear anymore and have not since the 7" ED Nitemare back in 1999 when even Meade had no clue what was going on. I mean 5 trips to Meade that i know of??? Get real neal That scope met it's death after the last owner slapped it on the mount without the weights and it slammed into the tripod not once but 2 times.  Now Meade back in the 70's and 80's was on top and into the 90's with the world changing LX200.

[ccate]

I'm hoping that both brands continue with success.

If they were to loose because of continued bullying from Synta/Ningbo it will be a sad day indeed.

[starman876]

It will be sad to see such a long times vendor of astronomy equipment no longer with us.  I am sure we all have had our good time and bad times with meade just like with most vendors.  Hopefully, they will restructure and will still be a vendor to provide an alternative selection of astronomy equipment.

[bobhen]

If Meade is really gone, the only thing that makes me apprehensive is that Synta will have an SCT monopoly. And that will not be good for consumers. But that was Synta's goal all along. That's why Synta colluded with Sunny Electronics, the owners of Meade. And that collusion was to control pricing. When both Meade and Celestron were US owned, the US government stopped Meade from merging with Celestron because it would form a monopoly. With the Chinese, monopoly is a long term goal.

 

Regarding old Meade, before they were bought by Sunny, I have no real love for that company. They basically let others do all the development and then just made cheaper quality knock-offs. Meade outright copied, or copied the look or tried to copy the following. Or to be polite, they reengineered...

 

Unitron's refractors
Cave's Newtonians
Celestron's SCTs (and later they tried to sue Celestron)
Tele Vue's Nagler eyepieces
Questar's 3.5" and 7" Maksutovs (didn't even change the size – how blatant)
Astro-Physics apo refractor line (they tried to match the color correction with a doublet)
SBIG's imaging cameras

 

Meade never was first with any of the above. If there was another SCT maker besides Synta, I would say good riddance to Meade.

 

Bob

Edited by bobhen, 20 July 2024 - 09:09 AM.

[YourNotSirius]

Good bye and good riddance! They were not that spectacular. They "borrowed" from everyone else then made cheap copies. They would force people to ship the entire telescope back instead of just making parts available. They were guilty of skulduggery at best! Orion had nothing that we ever wanted or needed so they were a complete nothing burger.

 

Q

[CHASLX200]

If Meade is really gone, the only thing that makes me apprehensive is that Synta will have an SCT monopoly. And that will not be good for consumers. But that was Synta's goal all along. That's why Synta colluded with Sunny Electronics, the owners of Meade. And that collusion was to control pricing. When both Meade and Celestron were US owned, the US government stopped Meade from merging with Celestron because it would form a monopoly. With the Chinese, monopoly a long term goal.

 

Regarding old Meade, before they were bought by Sunny, I have no real love for that company. They basically let others do all the development and then just made cheaper quality knock-offs. Meade outright copied, or copied the look or tried to copy the following. Or to be polite, they reengineered...

 

Unitron's refractors
Cave's Newtonians
Celestron's SCTs (and later they tried to sue Celestron)
Tele Vue's Nagler eyepieces
Questar's 3.5" and 7" Maksutovs (didn't even change the size – how blatant)
Astro-Physics apo refractor line (they tried to match the color correction with a doublet)
SBIG's imaging cameras

 

Meade never was first with any of the above. If there was another SCT maker besides Synta, I would say good riddance to Meade.

 

Bob

Miss their Fiberlite tubes as we don't have any real tube makers anymore.

[DAVIDG]

I have repaired a fair number of Meade scope over the years . In my opinion they got the designs about 90% of the way  there and would start selling them and have the user find the other 10% of the problems They didn't support their products and would  offer a short warranty and discontinue that model quickly with limited parts availability  The LX200 Classic with 16 volt rated caps and running it at 18 volts, the issues the coating on the front objective that went bad quickly on the PST solar telescope and calling  their coma corrected optics modified Ritchey Chretien are a couple of examples.  These kinds of business practices and fact that they got sued  for price fixing are some  of the major reasons why went under.

    My hope is someone will acquire the rights to manufacture parts, especially the electronics to keep these scope going. When you have fixed the bugs in them they do work well.

 

               - Dave 

[Echolight]

I have everything I want or need. So it's not really relevant to me in a personal way.

 

But for others now and in the future, it might be nice to have the choice to buy a blue cat.

 

Maybe Musk will buy them,  continue the X-line of dobs and change all of their Maks and SCT's to X90, X125, X8, and so on.

A new line of AP X-newts in light blue, X astrocams, strain wave X-mounts, and carbon fiber X-tripods?

Call them X-image, X-wave, and X-pod.

 

Of course there'd have to be the X-cellerator line of smart telescopes.

 

Possibly make a tv commercial with a new wave nerd chick in a white sport coat and LaRouX hair doing AP with a little newt next to an old  codger with same hair in a white lab coat using an X16 SCT.

Edited by Echolight, 20 July 2024 - 09:41 AM.

[CHASLX200]

I have everything I want or need. So it's not really relevant to me in a personal way.

 

But for others now and in the future, it might be nice to have the choice to buy a blue cat.

 

Maybe Musk will buy them,  continue the X-line of dobs and change all of their Maks and SCT's to X90, X125, X8, and so on.

A new line of AP X-newts, X astrocams, strain wave X-mounts, and carbon fiber X-tripods?

 

Possibly make a tv commercial with a new wave nerd chick in a white sport coat and LaRouX hair doing AP with a little newt next to an old  codger with same hair in a white lab coat using an X16 SCT.

The world is SCT'ed out. More slow big EG mounted Newts are needed.

[Echolight]

The world is SCT'ed out. More slow big EG mounted Newts are needed.

Yeah, back in the roaring 70's those were all the rage.

But not a good business model for the modern age.

 

Maybe if Musk-X-Meade could patent and build an ultra light laminated newtonian mirror with thin pyrex surface and super stiff polymer back.... then they'd move to the forefront of innovation in backyard space exploration.

Edited by Echolight, 20 July 2024 - 09:36 AM.

[clamchip]

I'm sad about the whole thing, not as sad as when Sears closed but still saddened nonetheless.

I hope they get things sorted out soon.

 

Robert

Edited by clamchip, 20 July 2024 - 09:30 AM.

[SandyHouTex]

I expected it as soon as they moved their manufacturing to Mexico.  Mexico is not known for their ability to make excellent optical telescopes.  Had the went to Japan or China, I think they would still be around.

 

I do long for the days when they made research grade newtonians and eyepieces.  I stopped buying from them in the early 2000s, when I bought a 6inch LXD-55 achromat and the mount.  It took them 3 OTA shipments to get me a half-way decent scope.  I also bought an LX-50 10inch SCT which still has pinched optics and has sat in my bedroom for 24 years.

 

You make and sell people crap, and they will seek an alternative.

[Exnihilo]

I have everything I want or need. So it's not really relevant to me in a personal way.

 

But for others now and in the future, it might be nice to have the choice to buy a blue cat.

 

Maybe Musk will buy them,  continue the X-line of dobs and change all of their Maks and SCT's to X90, X125, X8, and so on.

A new line of AP X-newts in light blue, X astrocams, strain wave X-mounts, and carbon fiber X-tripods?

Call them X-image, X-wave, and X-pod.

 

Of course there'd have to be the X-cellerator line of smart telescopes.

 

Possibly make a tv commercial with a new wave nerd chick in a white sport coat and LaRouX hair doing AP with a little newt next to an old  codger with same hair in a white lab coat using an X16 SCT.

I have everyting I need too, so yes, its not really important to me any more. It would have been maybe 20 or so years ago.

 

They market good eyepieces, I have a few of them.  I had an LXD-55 mount back then, which I thoroughly hated, and when I let it go, I decided I would never buy another Meade scope or mount again; that was based more on their customer service than anything else.  Its entirely possible I could have had the same experience with the wrong choice of a Celestron though too.

 

Yep, should have bought a Meade Newt instead of that LXD-55, I'd probably have a different take.

Edited by Exnihilo, 20 July 2024 - 09:50 AM.

[CHASLX200]

I have everyting I need too, so yes, its not really important to me any more. It would have been maybe 20 or so years ago.

 

They market good eyepieces, I have a few of them.  I had an LXD-55 mount back then, which I thoroughly hated, and when I let it go, I decided I would never buy another Meade scope or mount again; that was based more on their customer service than anything else.  Its entirely possible I could have had the same experience with the wrong choice of a Celestron though too.

 

Yep, should have bought a Meade Newt instead of that LXD-55, I'd probably have a different take.

LXD55 was as bad as the first run of CG5 mounts.

[abe]

I'm sad.  Sad for Meade and sad for any company that tries to make stuff these days.  At least Meade designed and built their own gear.  It may not be your cup of tea but just look at the number of people - kids and adults - who got started in astronomy with a Meade.  Also the competition from Meade improved the market, most notably Celestron but others as well.  Focusing on a particular piece of gear is sort of missing the bigger picture.

If you've ever started or been employed by a company that went under, then you know how much experience, IP, and general know-how gets destroyed in the process.  Someone designed, manufactured assembled and tested that hardware, wrote the code, built that company etc, and if Meade goes down, most of that talent and experience is going to be entirely lost as people move on to other things in life.  

Sure, there are things that I wish Meade would do differently and products that they've missed the boat on, but if they're dead, then they will never get the chance.  Perhaps if they survive, the near death experience will be a wake up call for a new and improved Meade.

p.s.  The 80s era Meades get my vote for the most aesthetically beautiful telescopes ever made (prettiest advertisements too!).

Edited by abe, 20 July 2024 - 11:05 AM.

[deSitter]

I own a lot of Meade gear and it has always worked extremely well for me. This is the 20th year of almost trouble-free operation of my LXD75. The OTA is long gone. It's the 15th year of my 90mm f/10. The mount for that is long gone. In both cases the thing that left was functional, but not useful to me. I bought 3 complete sets of eyepieces new - the Series 4000 Plossls, the Series 5000 UWAs, and the Series 5000 HD60s. 4 of the Series 4000 QXes. A couple of white/blue Orthos for photography and planets. A Series 5000 5x amplifier. My heavy duty mount is an LXD650 with the CDS 1697 go-to electronics. All of this stuff works exactly as advertised. The only Meade thing I have that really doesn't perform is a 90mm Mirror Lens. Even that is very well made. And my fully functional, fully babied and tended ETX90, just a beautiful little scope.

 

I guess I have what you would call brand loyalty. With each thing I got that worked and didn't break the bank (I am instinctively a bargain hunter), I went back to the same well for something new. I suspect the number of satisfied customers far exceeds the number of unsatisfied. I am not making excuses for their blunders. But Meade was overall a very positive force for innovation and affordable gear. They are the ones who got the ball rolling with CCD photography and go-to computers. They made it possible for a complete beginner to rapidly get up and imaging during a time when a very steep learning curve was the norm.

 

Most importantly, the competition between Meade and Celestron forced both of them to bring their A game optically. That the results were inconsistent for both, just shows how difficult it is to reliably mass produce good telescopes.

 

So I really hope Meade manage to rise from yet another pile of ashes and re-establish themselves as innovators. I feel like the next age of telescopes will be mass produced apsherical Maksutovs. There is no reason, other than availability of glass, you couldn't mass produce consistently high performance Maks up to say 10", and not just at f/15 or slower. If automatically creating an aspherical f/3.5 mirror can be mastered, the rest is easy. I also expected Meade to be a leader in EAA, and we'd see them bring price reductions and ease of setup.

 

Anyway, I've never been ashamed of being a "Meade man". They've done OK by me.

 

-drl

[Rick-T137]

I agree with Dave that a lot of Meade’s stuff was 90% there and it was up to us to figure out the rest.

- My 8” 2080 is tough to get fine focus so I had to add a diagonal with a helical focuser on it. Additionally I had to regrease the primary baffle to reduce focus shift.
- My 10” Starfinder Dob had a joke of a plastic focuser on it that I had to replace. Also the alt and az bearings needed to be improved for the scope to be usable.
- My ETX-90/EC sounded like a coffee grinder when slewing around the sky and it needed a firmware update before the GOTO would work at all.
- My LXD-75 needed some serious tuning to work reliably including inserting hard metal shims between the drive axle and the set screw holding the gear to it.

These issues may not be unique to Meade but their scopes consistently came with additional challenges to overcome.

Still, I did enjoy my Meade scopes (still do!). It will be sad to see them leave the scene (if it comes to that). I’ll miss them the same way I miss Pontiac.

Clear skies!

Rick

[ccwemyss]

When I worked in the scope shop, the owner refused to do business with them. He said he couldn't trust Diebel. The whole Crown Optics thing showed him that Diebel didn't care about the retailers or the customers, and was just in it for the money. In contrast, he felt that Tom Johnson, being an optics designer and amateur astronomer, meant that Celestron was in it for the users and the stores. However, he also observed that Celestron was not as smart about business and marketing as Meade, which was frustrating for him.

 

Meade did bring competition to the SCT business that Criterion hadn't. That kept Celestron from getting complacent. When Diebel returned to Meade, there was a big push to innovate, with the ED refractors and the computerized mounts, which drove Celestron to match them. (And there was also a fair amount of copying, e.g., with the eyepiece designs, Maks, etc.) By then, Celestron had also gone through a series of owners, and some bad years. Things turned nasty with suits, and they were trying to get ahead by bashing the competition. That weakened both of them.

 

So now we have to depend on Synta as an unregulated monopoly, which is never a good thing. Fortunately, there are still some independent manufacturers, especially for specialized and higher end equipment. But for most people, it means that a telescope will now just be a few different rebrands of one line. 

 

I always saw Orion as another mail-order house that sold regular brands, sometimes regular brands under their own name, and also cheap accessories and beginner gear that they imported. Hard to say what was guiding their business model, which felt like it was flailing. I bought some of their 100mm table top dobs for the school after the Astroscan was discontinued, and a few odds and ends. They were a nice alternative, especially for beginners.

 

With OPT gone too, we are down to just a few online retailers. I worry that, with the internet and express shipping, Synta could decide to bypass their markup and sell direct. That could put them out of business, which would also make it harder on the smaller manufacturers.

 

Thus, I don't miss the business practices of Meade, but I do regret that their absence could reduce diversity and competition. And I will miss Orion as an alternative at the lower end. 

 

Chip W. 

[Kasmos]

I'm glad I started this topic since I find it interesting to hear people's experiences with their telescopes and how it went with the companies and stores they purchased them from . And I'm not saying that to focus only on the bad ones, but rather how people got started in the hobby and what they experienced over these years.

 

I'm sure the telescope business is harder than ever to be succesful at, so I do wonder if Meade will be back. Will the news of them shutting down be too much for a prospective buyer?

 

And I do agree that it's bad for the SCT market and probably telescopes in general since competition seems to be a healthy or needed force/influenece for any product.

Edited by Kasmos, 20 July 2024 - 01:06 PM.

[MarkMittlesteadt]

My first "serious" scope was a Meade LX50 8" SCT. I bought because of their two page, full color ads in S&T. I had to place a phone order (pre-online days) with Astronomics (who was listed as an authorized dealer in the Ad).

 

Still one of my all time favorite scopes/mounts and I still regret selling it. I vividly recall opening the box and taking out that heavy metal, dual forked mount and scope. It was really something special and the optics were excellent.

 

I have also owned all the ETX scope/mounts (90, 105 and 125). Another favorite I regret selling was my ETX105. 

 

As to how I feel about Meade? Nostalgic.

 

 

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 20 July 2024 - 01:33 PM.

[deSitter]

My first "serious" scope was a Meade LX50 8" SCT. I bought because of their two page, full color ads in S&T. I had to place a phone order (pre-online days) with Astronomics (who was listed as an authorized dealer in the Ad).

 

Still one of my all time favorite scopes/mounts and I still regret selling it. I vividly recall opening the box and taking out that heavy metal, dual forked mount and scope. It was really something special and the optics were excellent.

 

I have also owned all the ETX scope/mounts (90, 105 and 125). Another favorite I regret selling was my ETX105. 

 

As to how I feel about Meade? Nostalgic.

 

 

You never see 102s for sale. I don't think I've ever seen one.

 

-drl