405 replies to this topic

[MarkMittlesteadt]

You never see 102s for sale. I don't think I've ever seen one.

 

-drl

Well, the ETX105's were discontinued long ago and were never made again. Even the newer models only come in 90 or 125. The reason you don't see 105's for sale on the used market is probably the fact that out of all the ETX's the optics of the 105 were especially sharp and crisp. Never looked through another Mak (or refractor for that matter) anywhere close to being that good, until the ED apos became more popular. Just my opinion of course.

Edited by MarkMittlesteadt, 20 July 2024 - 01:42 PM.

[CHASLX200]

Well, the ETX105's were discontinued long ago and were never made again. Even the newer models only come in 90 or 125. The reason you don't see 105's for sale on the used market is probably the fact that out of all the ETX's the optics of the 105 were especially sharp and crisp. Never looked through another Mak (or refractor for that matter) anywhere close to being that good, until the ED apos became more popular. Just my opinion of course.

Had two 125's that were dead sharp. Just odd build and hard to use normal stuff or finders on them.

[RichA]

I thought you guys might want a place to express how you feel about the demise of Meade, and or Orion for that matter.

 

I was never much of a Meade fan. I'm not saying they didn't make or sell some nice stuff, but the stories of how Diebel dealt with Cave, then Celestron, and being sort of a copycat always tainted the brand in my mind.

 

So personally I'm pretty much in the Don't Care Camp. Plus it doesn't help since (like others), they really weren't the company they once were anyway.

 

And as for Orion, never dealt with them, and other than some rebranded Vixens, was never much interested in their stuff. 

 

BTW, I realize that both companies may not be gone forever.

The Meade LX200 was a revelation and ushered in the era of semi-automated/automated astronomy which makes much of the imaging we see now possible.  I bought the LX200s and their 4 and 5 in ED refractors, lots of ETX Maks, maybe the odd smaller Meade.  I did own a lot of their RG eyepieces.  I recognize that having only one company now that makes SCTs isn't a good idea.

Edited by RichA, 20 July 2024 - 04:21 PM.

[RichA]

Yeah, back in the roaring 70's those were all the rage.

But not a good business model for the modern age.

 

Maybe if Musk-X-Meade could patent and build an ultra light laminated newtonian mirror with thin pyrex surface and super stiff polymer back.... then they'd move to the forefront of innovation in backyard space exploration.

Hindsight is 20/20.  In the 70s and 80s, SCT dominated because Newtonians were too large for their aperture and refractors too small in aperture.  No one fully predicted the computer revolution.  SCTs are still sold, but fell out of favour due to income vs. goals.  Small, widefield refractors don't need precise equatorial mounts to take images, and they are cheap, but scopes with 1200mm or larger focal lengths need very precise, expensive mounts to image with, so few will sell in an imaging environment.  

[jgraham]

I feel as though I have lost not one, but two friends. I have enjoyed both Orion and Meade for decades and it makes me so sad to lose them both. Meade makes up a significant fraction of my equipment fromm the original 2080 LX to a 12" ACF from LX850 production. I have a full set of ETXs, a Lightswitch, Lightbridge 16, and an LX65. I also have a full set of LXD75s, two LXD75 mounts and at least one example of every telescope they put on them. They made a few missteps along the way, but I gave them full marks for trying. Orion has been my go to resource for a lot of stuff and tended to be on the simple/fun side like the original StarBlast and the layer imaging StarBlast. I recently bought what may turn out to be one of the last XT6 classics that I ordered so that I could have an example of a modern beginner scope for use at outreach events.

To make a long story short (too late), it makes me sad.

But... times change.

In the meantime, my garage is full.

Objective met.

[Echolight]

Hindsight is 20/20.  In the 70s and 80s, SCT dominated because Newtonians were too large for their aperture and refractors too small in aperture.  No one fully predicted the computer revolution.  SCTs are still sold, but fell out of favour due to income vs. goals.  Small, widefield refractors don't need precise equatorial mounts to take images, and they are cheap, but scopes with 1200mm or larger focal lengths need very precise, expensive mounts to image with, so few will sell in an imaging environment.  

There's lots of small fast newts entering the fray.

[CHASLX200]

There's lots of small fast newts entering the fray.

All coma monsters to peeps that have no clue. I remember my thread back in 1998 on SAA that got 1000's upset and banging away.  It was my Meade lovers vs Meade bashers thread that really turned that place inside out.

Edited by CHASLX200, 20 July 2024 - 05:03 PM.

[Echolight]

All coma monsters to peeps that have no clue. I remember my thread back in 1998 on SAA that got 1000's upset and banging away.  It was my Meade lovers vs Meade bashers thread that really turned that place inside out.

Maybe. But it's the in thing for young imagers looking for speed and light gathering for not a lot of dough.

 

6" f4 w/ coma corrector for a cool g.

https://www.highpoin...-coma-corrector

 

If the new Meade-X could make it 8 pounds instead of 10 and with a flex-free focuser with some Space-X age technology and materials, they might garner the attention of startup as well as seasoned imagers.

 

Or maybe they could even build something to compete with the Tak-E.

 

Not for planets mind you. 

 

Anyhow, it'd be pocket change for Musk.

Edited by Echolight, 20 July 2024 - 05:42 PM.

[Bomber Bob]

Honestly, I felt more shock & sorrow when UNITRON left our hobby...

 

I bought my first decent accessories from Meade back in 1979, so I do have some nostalgia-induced blahs.  While I like my VersaGo, I always saw Orion as the Big Lots of the hobby - lots of cheap china-made junk - EXCEPT for their Vixen imports.

 

Overall, it's better to have more vendors than less, so I hope Orion / Meade make a comeback.

[Stew44]

I really enjoyed my first Mak - a 7" LX200.  Opened my eyes to goto scope with great optics.  Then they made the ETX.  Still amazed at how well those OTAs performed.  Never thought much of their SCTs.  Have a 120mm refractor that is pretty much department store.  Wouldn't let me sell their stuff.  Celestron miles better in my opinion.  Chinese refractors blow them away in today's market.  Good riddance.

[CHASLX200]

Honestly, I felt more shock & sorrow when UNITRON left our hobby...

 

I bought my first decent accessories from Meade back in 1979, so I do have some nostalgia-induced blahs.  While I like my VersaGo, I always saw Orion as the Big Lots of the hobby - lots of cheap china-made junk - EXCEPT for their Vixen imports.

 

Overall, it's better to have more vendors than less, so I hope Orion / Meade make a comeback.

The SCT took a bite out of Unitron in the early 70's as it was a slow road down hill for Unitron into the early 80's when their prices went nuts and then came the crude and cheap coma filled views with the big blue Dobs around 1982 just about when the Nagler was warming up and way  before the Paracorr saved the world. Fracts were out and SCT's Dobs were in back then.

[mdowns]

Folks we will have to lock this thread down for now. I was hoping for an update but nothing new has came out and the admin asked us to lock the topic until there is an official announcement.We do know that the Orion storefront is for sale and that S&T announced on their website about the closure,but nothing directly yet from Orion / Meade. We will unlock as soon as the admin gives us a go ahead.

[mdowns]

We just received an 'ok' to unlock these threads about Meade/Orion's demise.Thanks to everyone for your patience!

[CHASLX200]

Honestly, I felt more shock & sorrow when UNITRON left our hobby...

 

I bought my first decent accessories from Meade back in 1979, so I do have some nostalgia-induced blahs.  While I like my VersaGo, I always saw Orion as the Big Lots of the hobby - lots of cheap china-made junk - EXCEPT for their Vixen imports.

 

Overall, it's better to have more vendors than less, so I hope Orion / Meade make a comeback.

That was Celestron's and Unitrons fault walt.  By the early 70's U was on it's death bed thanks to the new kid on the block the C8  and by 1981 the prices on U stuff was insane and them came the cheap blue Dobs that put the last nail in the coffin for U.  Fracts were dead and out by the later 70's until later in the 80's. Just no choices unless you were rich and could afford a crazy priced Tak and AP was just getting started. Most of the cheap 60 and 80mm stuff was dumbed down to cheap made stuff and mounts by 1980.

 

Really don't care bear if both comps are done as i was not a buyer for many years,

Edited by CHASLX200, 01 August 2024 - 07:38 AM.

[gabeeg]

I used to drool over the Meade and Celestron ads in the 80's  (If I had to pick a team though, I was team Celestron).   By the time I could actually afford a scope in the early 90's...it was neither a Celestron nor a Meade...it was a house branded Orion, and I bought it at the Orion store...and now it is gone as well.   I am sad to see them all go...but that is the nature of things.  The telescope industry over the last 30+ years has been transitioning due to costs of manufacturing...and the internet. There is a sense of inevitability to it. The hobby is still here, but most of the commercial players have changed.

[CharLakeAstro]

My first "full size" scope was an 8" LX10 and it helped me see things I had never seen before that. Fond memories.

 

Hoping they return out of this saga, still an independent player in the market.

A monopoly on catadioptric scopes by any one company would not be good for our hobby, competition is foundational to innovation.

[saemark30]

Meade made a lot of soft SCT's.

Their Newtonian optics are generally held in high regard though, and some of their eyepieces are still used and collected.

I don't  care for their business practices though and never bought anything of high value.

 

Orion was an expensive mail order store but I do like their affordable rebranding of Synta scopes. I have their 80ED which I never intend to sell.

[starman876]

That was Celestron's and Unitrons fault walt.  By the early 70's U was on it's death bed thanks to the new kid on the block the C8  and by 1981 the prices on U stuff was insane and them came the cheap blue Dobs that put the last nail in the coffin for U.  Fracts were dead and out by the later 70's until later in the 80's. Just no choices unless you were rich and could afford a crazy priced Tak and AP was just getting started. Most of the cheap 60 and 80mm stuff was dumbed down to cheap made stuff and mounts by 1980.

 

Really don't care bear if both comps are done as i was not a buyer for many years,

so you do not think that Nihon Seiko going out of business which supplied Unitron with the telescopes they sold along with polarex and many other brands which looked just like the Unitron brand had anything to do with Unitron no longer selling telescopes?

[Martin]

Well, say what you want about Meade but there were various times throughout their history when they reinvented themselves. Each time with something innovative. Think about their ED series with mounts designed to handle those refractors. There was a 4, 5, 6, and 7 inch. Not too many companies were doing that back in the early 90's. Yes, yes, I know, the scopes were not without fault, but not all of them were bad and the prices for the scope and mount was actually fairly affordable. Then there was the LX200's, they sold lots of those and what about the ETX's, another great idea and they sold millions of them. I know Meade put out some bad products at times, but they put out a lot of good stuff as well. Their 826's and Research Grade newtonians were a big hit and still are on the used market. 

 

I also will miss Orion. I remember getting their catalogs back in the 90's. I would stop everything I was doing just to look through their catalog. I bought eyepieces and other accessories from them back in the day. I still have a few of their old catalogs and still enjoy looking through them.  

 

I hope these 2 companies can make a comeback. Probably just wishful thinking. 

 

Martin

[Wimpy.mcpoat]

I'm constantly buying old meade 2080s,when I see them for a good price.[under $500]

I think I own 5 or 6 meade 2080's.

I'm hopeful  the original owners will buy back the company and start over.

[CHASLX200]

so you do not think that Nihon Seiko going out of business which supplied Unitron with the telescopes they sold along with polarex and many other brands which looked just like the Unitron brand had anything to do with Unitron no longer selling telescopes?

Not at all.  By 1980 the SCT wiped fracts out of the ball game.  Then came the cheap blue Dobs that also helped with the fracts death, Look at a Sky&Tele around 1980 and see what choice we had. By 1981 U had priced stuff so high and was cutting back on what all it would offer with the scope and also the M-160 was taken off the list and was a crazy 3.5k when they stopped making it.  By mid 1980's AP was coming alive and Tak prices were past nuts.  Not until Celestron did the first real thing right and offer Vixen made OTA's and mounts around 1983 did we start to see a change and more choices with fracts, Meade also got in on the game with some Fracts.  Today vs 1980 in fract land is not even close as we have so many choices and so much cheaper options vs 1980.

Edited by CHASLX200, 01 August 2024 - 05:31 PM.

[Michael Covington]

I have repaired a fair number of Meade scope over the years . In my opinion they got the designs about 90% of the way  there and would start selling them and have the user find the other 10% of the problems They didn't support their products and would  offer a short warranty and discontinue that model quickly with limited parts availability  The LX200 Classic with 16 volt rated caps and running it at 18 volts, the issues the coating on the front objective that went bad quickly on the PST solar telescope and calling  their coma corrected optics modified Ritchey Chretien are a couple of examples.  These kinds of business practices and fact that they got sued  for price fixing are some  of the major reasons why went under.

    My hope is someone will acquire the rights to manufacture parts, especially the electronics to keep these scope going. When you have fixed the bugs in them they do work well.

 

               - Dave 

I had an LX200 and loved it -- had it from 2000 until a rib injury left me unable to lift it for a prolonged time and I sold it in 2014.   But its power inlet circuit struck me as distinctly odd, to the point that I redesigned it and gave up the current-indicating function.   The chassis of the LX200, as designed, is not at power supply ground.  I foresaw a lot of problems with that.   What I did:  https://www.covingto...erinlet-sch.jpg

Since I was running on 12 volts I didn't even look at capacitor voltages.

Before that (1987 to late 1990s) I had a 2080-LX3 for which I redesigned the hand box to do the drive correcting with a microcontroller giving two-phase rather than square-wave drive.  https://www.covingto...s-Published.pdf

Edited by Michael Covington, 01 August 2024 - 08:16 PM.

[ericb760]

A Meade ETX-90 was the first of only two scopes that I have ever purchased brand new, and it was sold to finance my ETX-125, which I still have. I don't know what will become of these two companies, but I do hope that someone comes along and resurrects them from the ashes, even if that someone is a Chinese conglomerate. 

[SandyHouTex]

I bought 2 Meade OTAs in the late 90s.  Both were junk.  The LXD-55 6inch achromat took 3 OTAs to get one that was diffraction limited.  The first one was optically horrible, the second had one of the spacers in the clear aperture, with the 3rd finally being okay.  The LX-50 10inch I bought had pinched optics and still does.  It just sits in my bedroom like a statue.

 

I got a pretty good ETX-125 in the mid-90s, but that was it.  When they moved their manufacturing to Mexico it all fell apart.

 

I don't think they'll be back.  I don't understand why or how they took Orion with them.  Oh well.  The world keeps turning.

 

I switched to Celestron after the Meade fiasco and now own every OTA they make except the Edge HDs and their new Origin smart scope.  All are great and test better than 1/6 wave.  So I'm a happy camper.

[starman876]

Not at all.  By 1980 the SCT wiped fracts out of the ball game.  Then came the cheap blue Dobs that also helped with the fracts death, Look at a Sky&Tele around 1980 and see what choice we had. By 1981 U had priced stuff so high and was cutting back on what all it would offer with the scope and also the M-160 was taken off the list and was a crazy 3.5k when they stopped making it.  By mid 1980's AP was coming alive and Tak prices were past nuts.  Not until Celestron did the first real thing right and offer Vixen made OTA's and mounts around 1983 did we start to see a change and more choices with fracts, Meade also got in on the game with some Fracts.  Today vs 1980 in fract land is not even close as we have so many choices and so much cheaper options vs 1980.

oh well, that must have been the reason for Zeiss getting out of the business also and Pentax and a few others.  Darn the SCT.   At least with the refractors you knew you were getting decent optics not so with the SCT.  

Edited by starman876, 02 August 2024 - 12:13 AM.