14 replies to this topic

[Vendace]

Hello from Finland! This is my first post ever to this site. Glad to be here!

 

I’m a total newbie and planning to buy my first telescope, probably going to buy an 8" dobsonian from Omegon, the Advanced X version. I'm thinking where I could store it. I have enough space in my band rehearsal room, but I wonder if vibrations from bass amps and subwoofers are going to do harm to the telescope or eyepieces? I'm a drummer myself and there are also some very noisy heavy metal bands in the room next to mine.

 

Is this a thing to be concerned, or am I just overthinking? Thanks in advance and clear skies🙏

[TOMDEY]

The scope will be fine, no problem. PS: I'm a (retired) drummer. From my experience --- worry about your ears more than the optics. I played with rock, jazz, military, drum & bugle corps, show, club bands and now have some significant hearing loss, forever tinnitus and --- hearing aids! Drummer's I've known picture below, commonality was hearing loss. Some gave me lessons or at least coaching. They were all greats --- I was just a hack drummer, but still love it. Playing overseas was great fun, especially the smaller intimate club bands in the big cities.  Tom

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[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Your astronomy gear will be ok as long as you keep it away from dust and dew.

[PirateMike]

Hello Vendace,

 

Welcome to the Cloudy Nights forum.

 

Please tell all of Finland that I say hello and that I send my love.

 

 

Miguel   8-)

Edited by PirateMike, 22 July 2024 - 06:55 AM.

[Vendace]

The scope will be fine, no problem. PS: I'm a (retired) drummer. From my experience --- worry about your ears more than the optics. I played with rock, jazz, military, drum & bugle corps, show, club bands and now have some significant hearing loss, forever tinnitus and --- hearing aids! Drummer's I've known picture below, commonality was hearing loss. Some gave me lessons or at least coaching. They were all greats --- I was just a hack drummer, but still love it. Playing overseas was great fun, especially the smaller intimate club bands in the big cities.  Tom

Thanks for the reply Tom. Good to know the telescope will be fine.

 

That's a good point about hearing protection, too many musicians have hearing loss or tinnitus. That's why I'm always wearing custom molded ear plugs while drumming. About the picture, I didn't know that Dave Weckl also has hearing loss. Haven't seen him live yet, hopefully one day!

[Paul Sweeney]

The truth about Newtonians/dobs: Normally, your secondary mirror is collimated once and it stays that way unless you seriously bang or bump the scope. The primary will also hold collimation, but needs to be checked each time you observe. When you start observing, aim at a bright star and defocus just a bit, until the star expands into light and dark circles. If they are round, you're good to go. If not, tweek the primary. Once you get the hang of it, tweeking takes only a minute or two. So even if your band does get the scope vibrating, nothing will happen that you can't correct in a few minutes.

[TOMDEY]

Thanks for the reply Tom. Good to know the telescope will be fine.

 

That's a good point about hearing protection, too many musicians have hearing loss or tinnitus. That's why I'm always wearing custom molded ear plugs while drumming. About the picture, I didn't know that Dave Weckl also has hearing loss. Haven't seen him live yet, hopefully one day!

It's just my observation of other drummers, great and small. They and we all seem to talk very loudly. Almost the same observation regarding other musicians and even the dedicated groupies, and my military veteran buddies. Total cumulative life exposure to loud noise almost always takes its toll. I brought 30DBA ear plugs to the Dave Weckl concert/clinic, and happily used them. My teacher was also there, a percussionist with the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra. I noticed that very few in the audience wore hearing protection... at least nothing that I could see. The volume was otherwise completely "deafening". Adaptive hearing protection is now more common and of course highly recommended.   Tom

[petrichorsnowstorm]

Congrats on getting into stargazing! An 8" Dobsonian is a great choice. As for storing it in your band rehearsal room, vibrations from the bass amps and subwoofers could potentially mess with the alignment over time, but it’s not a huge deal if it’s not constant.

If you can, store it in a spot with the least vibrations, or maybe add some padding under it to dampen the effects. You should be fine, but it's good to be a little cautious.

[Noots]

Congrats and welcome. I'm only at this a little less than a year, and I have to agree with the above, an 8" Dob is ideal.  I now have a 6 and a 10.  That 10 can sometimes be a bear to haul out.  This is a great, enthusiastic hobby.  BTW, I have both scopes in my office, which is also where I practice keyboard (playing into an Orange Crush Bass Amp). 

 

When are we planning to start the Cloudy Nights Band?

 

Wow, we could come up with so many band names:

 

Back Focus

The Vixen Dovetails

Polar Alignment

The Gas Giants 

Edited by Noots, 22 July 2024 - 04:08 PM.

[Sky Muse]

 

Get a 10" f/5 or f/4.x, and never look back.

[Vendace]

Wow, it's so heart warming to read all the replies. I've noticed that the astronomy community is so kind and friendly online and in person. 

 

I just ordered the 8" Omegon Dob, concenter collimation eyepiece and SVBony yellow line eyepiece set. Can't wait for them to come!

 

Congrats on getting into stargazing! An 8" Dobsonian is a great choice. As for storing it in your band rehearsal room, vibrations from the bass amps and subwoofers could potentially mess with the alignment over time, but it’s not a huge deal if it’s not constant.

If you can, store it in a spot with the least vibrations, or maybe add some padding under it to dampen the effects. You should be fine, but it's good to be a little cautious.

Thanks for the tip! The padding underneath is a great idea! I've used such things for my bass drum practice pad to reduce the vibrations and noise so my downstairs neighbor won't be bothered with constant noise, but I didn't think it also work the other way around.

 

 

The truth about Newtonians/dobs: Normally, your secondary mirror is collimated once and it stays that way unless you seriously bang or bump the scope. The primary will also hold collimation, but needs to be checked each time you observe. When you start observing, aim at a bright star and defocus just a bit, until the star expands into light and dark circles. If they are round, you're good to go. If not, tweek the primary. Once you get the hang of it, tweeking takes only a minute or two. So even if your band does get the scope vibrating, nothing will happen that you can't correct in a few minutes.

Thanks for the clear response, this helps a lot. It's good to know that I don't have to tweak the collimation of the secondary all the time.

 

 

Congrats and welcome. I'm only at this a little less than a year, and I have to agree with the above, an 8" Dob is ideal.  I now have a 6 and a 10.  That 10 can sometimes be a bear to haul out.  This is a great, enthusiastic hobby.  BTW, I have both scopes in my office, which is also where I practice keyboard (playing into an Orange Crush Bass Amp). 

 

When are we planning to start the Cloudy Nights Band?

 

Wow, we could come up with so many band names:

 

Back Focus

The Vixen Dovetails

Polar Alignment

The Gas Giants 

Cloudy Nights band would be awesome! Rogue Planet would also be a good name. There are so many cool space related terms to use in a band name!

Edited by Vendace, 30 July 2024 - 04:56 AM.

[EsaT]

I just ordered the 8" Omegon Dob, concenter collimation eyepiece and SVBony yellow line eyepiece set. Can't wait for them to come!

While sky is still pretty bright smashing low magnifications, you'll want to add also this to replace cliche and really no good in 1200mm focal length telescopes 25mm Plössl:

https://teleskopy.pl...roducts_id=2012

It gives literally 60% wider view fitting Pleiades properly and making finding targets lot easier:

https://astronomy.to...|1||&messier=45

 

And if you intend to visit less light polluted places for more serious deep sky observing, RACI finder is neck saver allowing looking into it for long times:

https://teleskopy.pl...roducts_id=2028

With continental Europe having basically only nuclear waste of ergonomics straight through neck pain finder equipped telescopes there must be some nuclear contamination/fallout from SkyWatcher selling only them...

Except for very few positions it's simply pain in the neck and trying to see near zenith through it needs you to be contortionist.

 

 

Better external/mechanical finish (grippy part to avoid dropping eyepiece at winter with cold fingers and gloves) Red line would have been actually cheaper on Svbony site.

Anyway would have been better to get individual ones instead of whole set.

15mm will simply crap itself in f/6 telescope: https://telescopicwa...line-eyepieces/

 

And 20mm is rather not usefull focal length in 8" Dobson.

After 2" wide view eyepiece of roughly 30mm next good step for basic eyepiece set would be at 12-15mm level.

(combination of magnification, exit pupil/surface brightness and wide enough for most deep sky objects)

 

 

For quick adjusting of primary mirror alignment laser collimator with Barlow would be one of the easiest by allowing seeing effect of adjustment to rear of telescope:

Unless you have gorilla's arm length, or giraffe's neck, it's little hard to both be able to look into focuser and have fingers on primary mirror adjustment knobs at same time.

(laser alone has many inaccuracy sources)

 

 

 

If you have spare time in weekend might want to consider visiting astronomy meeting just south of Tampere in Valkeakoski:

https://www.ursa.fi/c2024/yleista.html

 

And if you have any interest in Moon, I would have couple spare S&T Moon maps, which I would rate as the best general lunar chart:

https://shopatsky.co...map-of-the-moon

I bought five at once because shipping costs would have made price of one 40-50€. (for five price per piece ended around 23€)

 

 

 

 

Cloudy Night band would be awesome! Rogue Planet would also be a good name. There are so many cool space related terms to use in a band name!

Well, "4000 Rainy Nights" song name of Stratovarius is unfortunately fitting for bad side of weather...

And you'll certainly meet "Cold Winter Nights" + maybe some "Against the Wind".

 

 

And "Dead Moon Rising" of Sentenced is pretty nice song name.

[AstroChampion]

Good to see so many musician / astronomers. Just was talking about this with another CN member, then last night watched a telescope history documentary and found that William Hershel was a composer and astronomer.


Band name: “Primary Vibes”

Edited by AstroChampion, 29 July 2024 - 04:02 PM.

[Vendace]

I couldn't find a way to multiquote a single post, so I'll just add numbers to your original post.

 

1. While sky is still pretty bright smashing low magnifications, you'll want to add also this to replace cliche and really no good in 1200mm focal length telescopes 25mm Plössl:

https://teleskopy.pl...roducts_id=2012

It gives literally 60% wider view fitting Pleiades properly and making finding targets lot easier:

https://astronomy.to...|1||&messier=45

 

2. And if you intend to visit less light polluted places for more serious deep sky observing, RACI finder is neck saver allowing looking into it for long times:

https://teleskopy.pl...roducts_id=2028

With continental Europe having basically only nuclear waste of ergonomics straight through neck pain finder equipped telescopes there must be some nuclear contamination/fallout from SkyWatcher selling only them...

Except for very few positions it's simply pain in the neck and trying to see near zenith through it needs you to be contortionist.

 

 

3. Better external/mechanical finish (grippy part to avoid dropping eyepiece at winter with cold fingers and gloves) Red line would have been actually cheaper on Svbony site.

Anyway would have been better to get individual ones instead of whole set.

15mm will simply crap itself in f/6 telescope: https://telescopicwa...line-eyepieces/

 

4. For quick adjusting of primary mirror alignment laser collimator with Barlow would be one of the easiest by allowing seeing effect of adjustment to rear of telescope:

Unless you have gorilla's arm length, or giraffe's neck, it's little hard to both be able to look into focuser and have fingers on primary mirror adjustment knobs at same time.

(laser alone has many inaccuracy sources)

 

 

5. If you have spare time in weekend might want to consider visiting astronomy meeting just south of Tampere in Valkeakoski:

https://www.ursa.fi/c2024/yleista.html

 

6. And if you have any interest in Moon, I would have couple spare S&T Moon maps, which I would rate as the best general lunar chart:

https://shopatsky.co...map-of-the-moon

I bought five at once because shipping costs would have made price of one 40-50€. (for five price per piece ended around 23€)

1. That eyepiece seems very good and not that expensive. I'm definetely going to upgrade to that as soon as I can.

 

2. RACI finder is definetely something I'm going to buy in the future. By the way, how is that GSO finder scope so cheap? If it's good quality that's a steal!

 

3. I couldn't find the site you are refering to unless it's the one that ships from Hong Kong?

 

4. I saw the laser collimator + Barlow combination somewhere in this forum and it seems like a great idea. However, I want to buy a quality Barlow and my budget didn't have enough room for that at the moment. Hopefully I can afford this kind of setup in the future.

 

5. Unfortunately I can't make it this weekend, but I'll definetely attend some other time in the future. I'm so thankful that we have an active astronomy community here in Finland.

 

6. The moon map looks great, I would love to have one!

 

Thanks for all the great tips!

[EsaT]

1. That eyepiece seems very good and not that expensive. I'm definetely going to upgrade to that as soon as I can.

 

2. RACI finder is definetely something I'm going to buy in the future. By the way, how is that GSO finder scope so cheap? If it's good quality that's a steal!

 

3. I couldn't find the site you are refering to unless it's the one that ships from Hong Kong?

 

4. I saw the laser collimator + Barlow combination somewhere in this forum and it seems like a great idea. However, I want to buy a quality Barlow and my budget didn't have enough room for that at the moment. Hopefully I can afford this kind of setup in the future.

 

5. Unfortunately I can't make it this weekend, but I'll definetely attend some other time in the future. I'm so thankful that we have an active astronomy community here in Finland.

 

6. The moon map looks great, I would love to have one!

 

Thanks for all the great tips!

GSO SuperView is basically old design entry level eyepiece and would really like f/8 telescope with narrow cone of light to give sharp outer field.

But next step up is basically 200€ level with 30mm Ultra Flat Field and Naglerisque "hand grenade" 28mm UWA. Which are also bigger, especially the latter...

Top part has been updated to easier to look narrower conical shape, but this gives idea why long focal length UWAs are called hand grenades: https://youtu.be/GFRCQYgzOD8?t=8

 

Teleskopy.pl likely buys directly from GSO and in bigger volumes and then Poland has lower costs than most of Europe.

(including telescopes, though they haven't gotten new stock in months)

 

Svbony's get significant price increase with every step in chain adding their profit margin, so if not in hurry direct ordering would save major amount.

 

 

Barlow would have to be planned into "eyepiece map" from the start to get most benefit for the money and avoid running into redundancies etc.

 

I myself have GSO 2" ED Barlow, which is very good for the money.

https://teleskopy.pl...roducts_id=1749

(just under StellaLyra brand of British FirstLightOptics)

 

That would actually make 30mm SuperView into quite decent wide view 15mm, by making telescope effectively f/12 and clean outer field.

Better eyepieces with such Apparent FOV and good eye relief tend to cost far more than Barlow.

 

 

GSO laser collimator is also one of the cheaper ones:

https://teleskopy.pl...roducts_id=2692