21 replies to this topic

[DrakonisZA]

Okay, okay, this isn't the last eyepiece I'll take delivery of this week (or even today -- there's also a new-to-me smoothside 9.5mm Meade Series 3000 on my desk) but it's one I've been keen on for some time. Not this specific focal length -- I'd have preferred a 15mm -- but I've been interested in the Tuthill line of pseudo-Masuyama clones for some time now. 

 

Mostly because there's little concrete information out there about them. Pretty much everything I can find out is hosted on this forum and it's all largely the same thing: how it's one of the Ultima/Ultrascopic/Antares Elite/etc clones that were floating around some time back.

 

The Tuthill doesn't have much specific info, leaving me to assume that Celestron Ultima stats are probably highly similar. There appears to be little history that I can find, though this might have less to do with the info not being out there and more with Google degrading into a cesspool when it comes to research. There are even remarkably few images of these eyepieces specifically, whereas the Celestron, Baader, Orion, and Antares versions all have pictures somewhere. 

I figured I'd rectify at least that last point a little. Here's the newcomer, a 10mm Tuthill Plossl complete with original box. There's a Japan origin hand-stamped on the box's rear but nothing on the undercut barrel that I could find.

 

When it arrived, the undercut was at the base of the EP. I figure the previous owner wasn't too keen on it and flipped the barrel (correct me if I'm wrong here). The glass looks perfect, with nothing creeping along the field stop on a first examination. I'll stick it into a Svbony SV503 80ED F7 this evening if the weather holds. I'll probably have a better time of it next week when the full moon departs but I'm also not going to wait around until there. 

[Scott99]

It looks identical to University Optics HD ortho...what is the apparent field of view?  Wouln't be surprised if that's what it is.   here is pic of the 12mm UO HD otho.  Actually the eye lens in that Turhill looks larger -maybe he was able to order a run of plossls from Japan around the same time.....

 

Edited by Scott99, 22 July 2024 - 05:19 PM.

[Mike B]

It sure looks to have that same classic Pseudo contoured top, like the Ultima’s I have, tho there’s not a corresponding 10mm in the Ultima line. And if it’s anything like the Ultima team I’ve pulled together, I’m thinking you’ll like it very much! Guud glass! 

[DrakonisZA]

There was a 10mm in the Ultrascopic lineup (in this thread) that looks very similar to the Tuthill, but I can't make out enough detail from the old marketing images to be sure if the body is exactly the same. It definitely looks close to the UO Ortho (and very similar to the 9mm Antares abbe I found a short while ago) but initial explorations with it shows off-axis issues that start deeper than I would expect from an orthoscopic in an F7. 

 

That said, last night was a weird session overall. I'll attempt it again this evening but I'm mostly happy with it so far. A 30mm Ultima will be joining it (and the 18mm Ultima I've also secured) as soon as this week. 

[bulletdodger]

Closer to the Antares Elite. Definitely a keeper and the Tuthills are pretty rare.

[T1R2]

There was a 10mm in the Ultrascopic lineup (in this thread) that looks very similar to the Tuthill, but I can't make out enough detail from the old marketing images to be sure if the body is exactly the same. It definitely looks close to the UO Ortho (and very similar to the 9mm Antares abbe I found a short while ago) but initial explorations with it shows off-axis issues that start deeper than I would expect from an orthoscopic in an F7. 

 

That said, last night was a weird session overall. I'll attempt it again this evening but I'm mostly happy with it so far. A 30mm Ultima will be joining it (and the 18mm Ultima I've also secured) as soon as this week. 

I'm curious as to where the aberration starts at F7, My abbe ortho's at f6.5 are only slightly aberrated as the planet is drifting from outside the fov to the inside and as soon as the planet is fully inside the field stop it looks fine. 

[DrakonisZA]

That's just it. I'd expect minimal issues from an abbe, even at F5. The previous session was just weird overall. Everything I used was mucking around off axis, about the outer 25%, but sharp in the centre. But it was also only my second proper session with this scope. The first, the 9mm ortho was fantastic all the way across.
I'm sure I'll work it out but right now, I just don't know enough about the scope.

[T1R2]

That's just it. I'd expect minimal issues from an abbe, even at F5. The previous session was just weird overall. Everything I used was mucking around off axis, about the outer 25%, but sharp in the centre. But it was also only my second proper session with this scope. The first, the 9mm ortho was fantastic all the way across.
I'm sure I'll work it out but right now, I just don't know enough about the scope.

Yeah, I'd say that's a little bit more than expected, about the outer 25% is more plossl territory, maybe there is a slight collimation issue making them act up more off axis maybe adding a little more astigmatism or blurriness, I hope you get it figured out. 

[Scott99]

Ultima or Ultrascopic are definite possibilities!  We need to know the AFOV.

 

The font and color of the "Multicoated" is an exact match for Univ. optics - but the eye lens is definitely wider than an ortho.   So are we assuming this came from the Ohi/Masuyama happy glass factory? 

[alnitak22]

There was a 10mm in the Ultrascopic lineup (in this thread) that looks very similar to the Tuthill, but I can't make out enough detail from the old marketing images to be sure if the body is exactly the same. It definitely looks close to the UO Ortho (and very similar to the 9mm Antares abbe I found a short while ago) but initial explorations with it shows off-axis issues that start deeper than I would expect from an orthoscopic in an F7. 

 

That said, last night was a weird session overall. I'll attempt it again this evening but I'm mostly happy with it so far. A 30mm Ultima will be joining it (and the 18mm Ultima I've also secured) as soon as this week. 

I’m betting you’ll like the Ultimas. I’ve had the 30 and 18 since the late 90’s and still love them in all 4 of my scopes. The 10 Tuthill looks similar and hopefully will perform like the Ultima line.

[DrakonisZA]

Yeah, I'd say that's a little bit more than expected, about the outer 25% is more plossl territory, maybe there is a slight collimation issue making them act up more off axis maybe adding a little more astigmatism or blurriness, I hope you get it figured out. 

I'm half convinced it was my eyes on the night, since every eyepiece I tried was similarly dodgy. Just waiting on better conditions before giving it another go. 

[DrakonisZA]

Ultima or Ultrascopic are definite possibilities!  We need to know the AFOV.

 

The font and color of the "Multicoated" is an exact match for Univ. optics - but the eye lens is definitely wider than an ortho.   So are we assuming this came from the Ohi/Masuyama happy glass factory? 

I really wouldn't know where the glass comes from. Tuthills have very little concrete info that I can find so any assumption would be... well, an assumption. If someone happens to know for sure, I'd love to find out -- whatever the source. 

[DrakonisZA]

I’m betting you’ll like the Ultimas. I’ve had the 30 and 18 since the late 90’s and still love them in all 4 of my scopes. The 10 Tuthill looks similar and hopefully will perform like the Ultima line.

Speaking of the 30, look who turned up today. I'm hoping for agreeable weather this evening for a proper test drive. 

 

 

The top cap is split but everything else looks to be in perfect condition. 

[alnitak22]

Speaking of the 30, look who turned up today. I'm hoping for agreeable weather this evening for a proper test drive. 

 

tinywow_20240724_135953_60879219.jpg

 

The top cap is split but everything else looks to be in perfect condition. 

It’s my wife’s favorite for birding in the TV Ranger. I have the same 6” Mak as you and while I got it primarily for high power lunar/planetary observing, objects like the Double Cluster are stunning with the 30 Ultima. Enjoy!

[Andrea Salati]

The top cap is split but everything else looks to be in perfect condition. 

I need to buy a top cap for mine as well, if you figure out exactly which one to get to replace the original one, please, let me know.
Doing the same thing for another eyepiece ended up being more of an hassle than I wanted (not going to bash a merchant I like to buy from only because I had the misfortune to deal with the wrong sales rep).

[Scott99]

I really wouldn't know where the glass comes from. Tuthills have very little concrete info that I can find so any assumption would be... well, an assumption. If someone happens to know for sure, I'd love to find out -- whatever the source. 

if you can tell us the AFOV that will help figure out what it is.  It's easy to see this during the day, you just take your various eyepieces and hold two of them to your eyes at the same time.   Get them positioned so you can see the field stops of both.  You will see the true AFOV and I can usually quickly get an estimate down to 1-2 degrees by comparing with ep's of known FOV.

 

Those Ultimas are very nice.  I recently transitioned to never buying another eyepice with barrel undercut and now it's opened my eyes to how truly awful they are and it's a great feeling to be free of them IMO    My two Pentax XW's are still hanging around - all the other undercut ep's are gone from my house

Edited by Scott99, 24 July 2024 - 12:15 PM.

[T1R2]

I'm half convinced it was my eyes on the night, since every eyepiece I tried was similarly dodgy. Just waiting on better conditions before giving it another go. 

It def could've been if you were wearing glass or staring straight into the cent of the fov and judging by your peripheral vision. and sometimes our eyes are just a little wonky out at the edges  my glasses cause of axis stars to get astig sometimes. but it goes away if I tilt my head and look directly at it if my EP is well corrected like my higher powered eps. 

[DrakonisZA]

It’s my wife’s favorite for birding in the TV Ranger. I have the same 6” Mak as you and while I got it primarily for high power lunar/planetary observing, objects like the Double Cluster are stunning with the 30 Ultima. Enjoy!

I've had the Ultima out in my new Svbony 80 as well as my 90mm and it's been stunning in both instances. Pinpoint stars and excellent views. Can't wait to try it in the Mak when there's a little more time for setup. 

[DrakonisZA]

It def could've been if you were wearing glass or staring straight into the cent of the fov and judging by your peripheral vision. and sometimes our eyes are just a little wonky out at the edges  my glasses cause of axis stars to get astig sometimes. but it goes away if I tilt my head and look directly at it if my EP is well corrected like my higher powered eps. 

Based on last night, you're at least partly right here. I reckon it's time for a trip to the optometrist again, for starters, but it's also new scope teething issues. Turns out my 9mm ortho shows barely any aberration at the edges, with or without glasses, while the pseudos are less of an issue in the F7 if I tilt my head the right way (and keep my glasses on) -- up to a point, anyway. Mak performance is bound to be better. 

[DrakonisZA]

if you can tell us the AFOV that will help figure out what it is.  It's easy to see this during the day, you just take your various eyepieces and hold two of them to your eyes at the same time.   Get them positioned so you can see the field stops of both.  You will see the true AFOV and I can usually quickly get an estimate down to 1-2 degrees by comparing with ep's of known FOV.

 

Those Ultimas are very nice.  I recently transitioned to never buying another eyepice with barrel undercut and now it's opened my eyes to how truly awful they are and it's a great feeling to be free of them IMO    My two Pentax XW's are still hanging around - all the other undercut ep's are gone from my house

I'll give it a try but I've always been horrible at estimations like that. It may not be necessary, though. Someone is selling a full set of Ultrascopics on Ebay at the moment (here) and by chance have put up images of the right EP(s) to answer my question. The Tuthill plossl looks, outwardly at least, identical to part of this particular collection of Ultrascopics, down to the flat top and green lettering. Most of the Ultrascopics I've seen (and most in this set) feature blue lettering. 

It doesn't confirm what's inside but it's very suggestive that this 10mm and Orion's version, at least, is from the same source. 

[RSBIII]

 Plossl RT.pdf   193.17KB   16 downloads

 

Not sure if the attached file will show (I'm new), but here are a couple of other members of the Tuthill Plossl family, purchased in the late 70's along with a (now0 Legacy C-8 and an assortment of Roger's unique accessories. Terrific Person!

[Starman1]

Tuthill Plossls from the mid '80s to early '90s were the same pseudo-Masuyama eyepieces from Ohi Optics that were 5 elements that were also sold by Baader, Antares, Orion, Omcon, Parks, Celestron, and Kasai.
If from earlier, they might be 4 element Plossls, though I never saw any of the older ones in ads.