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Disappointed in local B&N astro book availability...

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#1 revans

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Posted 24 July 2024 - 06:58 AM

I used to spend a lot of time at my local Barnes and Noble bookstore.... going through the stacks and having a coffee afterwards while reading an astronomy magazine I'd picked up.

 

I don't get there as often these days, but went yesterday.  The amateur astronomy section had moved to the other side of the store and took up only a couple of shelves whereas it had previously had two stacks of about six shelves each.  

 

I looked at what was available.  I saw a couple of sky chart booklets that I could have bought, but they seemed a little simplistic... i.e. like something I could have benefited from much more many years ago when I first got into the hobby.  There were a couple of newish books on the moon, but neither had the depth of anything close to Chuck Wood's book I have at home.  Otherwise, nothing much to talk about...

 

I don't think this bodes well for some reason...

 

Rick


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#2 Jethro7

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Posted 24 July 2024 - 07:27 AM

Hello Rick,

ON one hand,the Astro Hobby has always been a very small demographic to begin with, even a much smaller demographic of dedicated hobbyist. On the other hand, printed books have been falling out of fashion quite awhile now in favor of digital material. Interest in hobby's like the Moon, tend to wax and wayne over time for various reasons. I'll hold my ground. 

 

HAPPY SKIES TO YOU AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro


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#3 desertstars

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Posted 24 July 2024 - 07:43 AM

I'm actually surprised that a B&N location ever had that much space devoted to astronomy in the first place. The one I visit here in Tucson (off and on for that past 20 years) has never had more than a couple of shelves as part of the "Science" section.

 

And that really doesn't surprise me. As pointed out in the post ahead of mine, we're not a particularly large market. I worked for the now defunct B. Dalton Bookseller chain in the early to mid '80s for several years. The science section had about a shelf and a half of books on astronomy and space exploration. That set of shelves was in the back, and rarely saw any traffic. That all changed very briefly during the much ballyhooed return of Halley's comet. We returned or marked down a lot of what the publishing industry churned out for that event.


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#4 desert_sage

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Posted 24 July 2024 - 09:54 AM

Out local B&N has roughly two bays of adult "science" books.  And maybe twice as much in academic prep publications.

 

Maybe we should be glad there is that much, I actually ran across a sad and eye-opening (to me,anyway) essay the other day:

 

No One Buys Books.

 

"The Big Five publishing houses spend most of their money on book advances for big celebrities like Britney Spears and franchise authors like James Patterson and this is the bulk of their business. They also sell a lot of Bibles, repeat best sellers like Lord of the Rings, and children’s books like The Very Hungry Caterpillar. These two market categories (celebrity books and repeat bestsellers from the backlist) make up the entirety of the publishing industry and even fund their vanity project: publishing all the rest of the books we think about when we think about book publishing (which make no money at all and typically sell less than 1,000 copies)."

 


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#5 gmiller123456

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Posted 24 July 2024 - 11:03 AM

I stopped by a BN for the first time in many years. The science section was never anything to write home about, but I never even found it this time. The reason I used to go there was for the computer section, which used to take up a good chunk of the store. Now it is one half-hight shelf mostly filled with yellow "For Dummies" books.

I noticed the layout had been changed too. Shelves removed, and the remaining ones moved further apart. More books shelved "face on", and lots of non-book items like games and craft kits.

On another note, my GF was looking for a new novel from a famous author (don't remember which) at Books A Million. It was almost twice the price from Amazon.

#6 BFaucett

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Posted 28 July 2024 - 07:03 AM

Frankly, I'm surprised that Barnes & Noble has survived this long. I guess people like to have a place to drink some coffee while they read a book. imawake.gif smile.gif  For years now, I've only purchased physical books online whether new or used. 

 

The B&N store nearest to my home in Houston has been closed for renovations. From the article below, I was surprised to learn that B&N has plans to open some new stores across the country.

 

 

Houston area Barnes & Noble set to reopen in November after temporarily closing
By Shakari Briggs | Staff writer
Houston Chronicle | April 30, 2024

 

In roughly six months, Barnes & Noble in the Town and Country Village Shopping Center will reopen. The brick and mortar store temporarily closed back in February for renovations.

 

"We are so excited to be opening another new store in Texas," said a company spokesperson. "The Town & Country, Houston location will be approximately 21,000 square feet featuring our new design and layout as well as a cafe."

 

Last year, the company opened 31 stores and plans to open 50 more across the country this year. The spokesperson credited "a tremendous growth with reading" as the reason behind the expansion.

 

BN-Houston-bookstore-500x.jpg

Barnes & Noble at 12850 Memorial Dr. in Houston in April 2022

 

full article here: https://www.houstonc...ks-19430548.php

 

 

Cheers! Bob F. wavey.gif

 


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#7 dnrmilspec

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Posted 28 July 2024 - 07:47 AM

In Tucson there are two large barnes and noble stores.  There are two enormous used books stores called Bookmans where one can get a wonderful selection of used books, and sell books that they no longer need.  A quick search showed 9 other book stores of one kind or the other.

 

I did a search at the Barnes and Noble website for "astronomy".  It returned 2129 books that one can order.

 

A Gallup poll two years ago showed people reading fewer books in the older demographic but that statistic does not tell the tale.  The decrease in book reading comes largely from the demographic which in 2002 reported reading a lot of books.  College graduates are reading a few less.  But the average American still reads an average of 12 books a year.  One a month is more than I thought they did.  And, surprising all of us geezers, the 18-34 demographic decrease in reading was only .8%.  This is statistically mostly no reduction but in practice this demographic still reads about 20 per year.  18-26, this article said, is interesting because they are increasingly reading driven by recommendations they see on TicTok and #booktok.  

 

So, lest we boast, it is we geezers, 55+ who are leading the reduction in book reading.  We are driving down the statistic pretty significantly.

 

I personally "read" something like 40+ books per year, many streamed while driving or exercising. 

 

An observation.  Consider the amount of time you spend on this site and others.  That is reading for sure.  How many "books" worth of content do you consume in a year?  Are we less informed or more informed that we were "back in the day" of library books, one newspaper and three television channels?

 

"Back in the Day" we had to buy a book filled with a lot of stuff and sort through it sometimes for the answer to one question.  Now I can type a query into my computer and have the answer instantly.  I could read a long and tedious book, filled with math, about how to  make astro photos (for example) and still not know "how to do it".  IF I had to learn advanced astrophotography from books it would take years.  I can watch a couple of YouTube videos and in a couple of hours (or less) be taking my first photo.  Then with another hour be on my way to post processing.  Then I can come here and, reading the forums, progress in the hobby very quickly.  And, if I have a question, I can access true experts (here and elsewhere) virtually instantly.

 

I work with a lot of younger people in my volunteer work.  They are certainly not less informed than we are.  They are much more informed than ever I was 40 years ago though I would not have admitted it.  And frankly many of my generation do not grasp the fact that I have the knowledge of the world in by pocket.  What I do with that varies but young people learn about that aspect in school.  Some of we geezers do not.  (I have standing to use that term as I am one.)

 

There is still something cool about reading a book.  Indeed there are a couple on my nightstand and a hundreds in bookcases as I speak.  But this is not really something to brag about.  It is in some ways anachronistic but, reading for pleasure relaxes me.  Frankly though, the notion of cracking a book to learn to do something seems to me, these days, a monumental waste of time. 

 

Now I will run and hide.wink.gif


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#8 CarolinaBanker

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Posted 28 July 2024 - 08:01 PM

Our local B&N is pretty weak for astronomy books, I buy mostly used online. B&N is decent for mass market books, local interest and the like but can’t compete with the unlimited shelf space of online only retailers.


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#9 BrentKnight

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Posted 28 July 2024 - 09:44 PM

I see new astronomy books mentioned here or online at sites like Amazon or Goodreads, but they will never show up at my favorite B&N.  It really does not bother me as I'm sure I'm one of maybe a couple hundred folks who might be interested in them.  I do buy a lot of fiction and history at the store though and I'd much rather pick up a book from a bookstore shelf than from a browser...

 

We live in pretty amazing times though as I can find copies of almost any astronomy book ever published on the used marked.  Unfortunately there are a lot of scalpers out there, but I can usually get what I want if I'm patient enough.


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#10 RobertED

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 12:26 PM

Yes...we have a B&N here in Smithfield, RI. I have always been disappointed with their Astronomy collection. Sometimes, you can get a decent soft cover book/magazine on Space...but you usually have to pay around $15.00 or more!! I find that a little much for a magazine!!!!



#11 RobertED

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 12:29 PM

Frankly, I'm surprised that Barnes & Noble has survived this long. I guess people like to have a place to drink some coffee while they read a book. imawake.gif smile.gif  For years now, I've only purchased physical books online whether new or used. 

 

The B&N store nearest to my home in Houston has been closed for renovations. From the article below, I was surprised to learn that B&N has plans to open some new stores across the country.

 

 

Houston area Barnes & Noble set to reopen in November after temporarily closing
By Shakari Briggs | Staff writer
Houston Chronicle | April 30, 2024

 

In roughly six months, Barnes & Noble in the Town and Country Village Shopping Center will reopen. The brick and mortar store temporarily closed back in February for renovations.

 

"We are so excited to be opening another new store in Texas," said a company spokesperson. "The Town & Country, Houston location will be approximately 21,000 square feet featuring our new design and layout as well as a cafe."

 

Last year, the company opened 31 stores and plans to open 50 more across the country this year. The spokesperson credited "a tremendous growth with reading" as the reason behind the expansion.

 

attachicon.gif BN-Houston-bookstore-500x.jpg

Barnes & Noble at 12850 Memorial Dr. in Houston in April 2022

 

full article here: https://www.houstonc...ks-19430548.php

 

 

Cheers! Bob F. wavey.gif BORDERS was a good book chain, but they went out of business a long time ago!!



#12 Astrocartician

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Posted 29 July 2024 - 07:25 PM

I have been going to BN for I guess 25 years now. About 15 years ago the SF and Fantasy categories occupied an entire shelf with 12 bays on both sides. Since then they have been decreasing to 5 bays for Fantasy and 3 for SF. Also, the proportion of SF to Fantasy has decreased.

 

I wonder if they will even have a SF section in 10 years.



#13 rmollise

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 04:17 PM

I used to spend a lot of time at my local Barnes and Noble bookstore.... going through the stacks and having a coffee afterwards while reading an astronomy magazine I'd picked up.

 

I don't get there as often these days, but went yesterday.  The amateur astronomy section had moved to the other side of the store and took up only a couple of shelves whereas it had previously had two stacks of about six shelves each.  

 

I looked at what was available.  I saw a couple of sky chart booklets that I could have bought, but they seemed a little simplistic... i.e. like something I could have benefited from much more many years ago when I first got into the hobby.  There were a couple of newish books on the moon, but neither had the depth of anything close to Chuck Wood's book I have at home.  Otherwise, nothing much to talk about...

 

I don't think this bodes well for some reason...

 

Rick

 

They're a long way from where they were 30 years ago when Miss Dorothy bought me the RedShift software at B&N for my birthday the summer we began dating. 

 

Long before the one here closed, they had cut back on ALL the math and science books and wildly expanded the woo-woo crystals-auras section. 


Edited by rmollise, 30 July 2024 - 04:18 PM.

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#14 turtle86

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Posted 30 July 2024 - 11:59 PM

They're a long way from where they were 30 years ago when Miss Dorothy bought me the RedShift software at B&N for my birthday the summer we began dating. 

 

Long before the one here closed, they had cut back on ALL the math and science books and wildly expanded the woo-woo crystals-auras section. 

 

No disagreement but B&N undoubtedly changed as did because not enough people buy science books now.  The last time my wife and I went to the Kennedy Science Center, I saw that there was a much smaller number of science books and materials, and way more hoodies, t-shirts, caps, etc.



#15 rmollise

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 07:37 AM

No disagreement but B&N undoubtedly changed as did because not enough people buy science books now.  The last time my wife and I went to the Kennedy Science Center, I saw that there was a much smaller number of science books and materials, and way more hoodies, t-shirts, caps, etc.

That's more perception than reality. Plenty would buy science books if they could.

 

It's easier to sell them expensive, cheaply produced celebrity magazines. ;)



#16 KidOrion

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 07:39 AM

In Tucson there are two large barnes and noble stores.  There are two enormous used books stores called Bookmans where one can get a wonderful selection of used books, and sell books that they no longer need.  A quick search showed 9 other book stores of one kind or the other.

Used to frequent Bookman’s in Flagstaff back in the glory days. What a great store.



#17 Michael Covington

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 07:41 AM

Note that bookstores are strongly biased toward newly published books, and astronomy books have not been coming out at the rate that they were ten or twenty years ago.  Also, one major publisher moving into the astronomy space is Springer, which is good to deal with but doesn't have a lot of penetration of the commercial book market -- historically they are a prolific and respected publisher of academic books in the mathematical sciences.


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#18 yuzameh

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 11:26 AM

Note that bookstores are strongly biased toward newly published books, and astronomy books have not been coming out at the rate that they were ten or twenty years ago.  Also, one major publisher moving into the astronomy space is Springer, which is good to deal with but doesn't have a lot of penetration of the commercial book market -- historically they are a prolific and respected publisher of academic books in the mathematical sciences.

And it seems giving themselves a poor name in the 'patrick moore' series of amateur astro books, at least in the context of thinking 'springer' = academic quality.  Always was a name label though for marketing, and for some reason still kept, despite him being dead what must be nigh on two decades now.  Ectoplasmic editing.

 

Just to backgrack, not all of 'em are weak, books authored by kronk, lunsford or argylle in the series are pretty much must haves (partially because of the limited number of books on the subtopics), but multiple subtopic ones written by the same author are just 'jobbing' books and in some cases seem to cover the same thing with just a different telescope or camera name on the front.

 

All in my personal opinion, of course.


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#19 Michael Covington

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Posted 31 July 2024 - 01:38 PM

You're alluding to what the ad industry calls Campbell's Soup Marketing.  The reason Campbell's Soup has so many flavors is not that people want that many flavors.  It's to take up more space on the grocery store shelf and get more exposure.


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#20 jcj380

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Posted 09 August 2024 - 01:34 PM

I have 5 B&Ns within a reasonable distance from my home.  One is quite large, one is rather small, two are medium size, and one relocated and opened a new (medium) location a few months ago.

 

I shop at all of them and it seems each one focuses on different areas.  The second largest has the most science books, specifically amateur astro and astrophysics, while the smallest one has next to zero science but does have a great military history section.

 

Assuming they have a good POS data collection system, I'd wager they stock stores to match what customers buy the most of at any given location.

 

Actually, Half Price Book locations seem to be the same around here - lots of science / astro or next to nothing.


Edited by jcj380, 09 August 2024 - 01:37 PM.


#21 Oregon-raybender

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Posted 09 August 2024 - 03:42 PM

I would suggest looking at Powell"s book store. It's really big out here

in Oregon. I sold a number of my astro and optics books I no longer

read or need to keep. (retired optical engineer) They post 196 pages

of astro books. If you can find what you are looking for, ask.

 

 

Also there is archive.org, it is the worlds largest internet book, video and

music web site. I found hundreds old books there, some you can down load

or borrow. There are several lifetimes worth reading material there.

 

I am a big fan of open access of out of print or 50 plus years old.

Like I posted on Edmund web site, Telescope making and optics books

by Sam Brown.

 

Starry Nightswaytogo.gif

 

https://www.powells....enres/astronomy

 

https://archive.org/


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#22 dnrmilspec

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Posted 10 August 2024 - 11:20 AM

Curious thread in one regard.  All of us are posting on an internet forum yet we seem to be upset by the notion that we might order our books online.  Odd.

 

I posted earlier that  Barnes and Noble lists over 2000 astronomy books.  Set your watch back 30 years and the very idea that any of us could have access to even a fraction of that number of books on astronomy would have been thought of as absurd.  Who knew there even were that many? I am pretty sure that we would have been overjoyed to find a bookstore with 10 titles not to mention 2000.  The availability of this many is stunning.

 

So lets compare B & N's combination online and in person selection of books.  The average public library has about 20,000 books.  For them to compete with what we can find on B & N's website they would have to make more than one in ten of their books on the broad subject of astronomy. 

 

30-40 years ago we would need books to answer questions for us.  For example, "what is a Quasar?".  Now I can just ask my phone and get dozens of answers instantly, saving me a trip to the library.  I no longer need books to tell me what is up tonight or what star it is at which I am looking.  I can point my scope or my phone at the star and either will tell me all about it.

 

"Back in the day" I learned what books were available by either going to a book store, library or reading the review section in the "Times".  Very tedious and catch-as-catch-can.  Now I have instant access to the very existence of millions of titles and an almost instant access to buying or borrowing them.  And, not to put to fine a point on it, the ability to save money by finding them used.

 

Today IS the golden age of books.  We are awash in them.  The loss of the big brick-and-mortar book stores is not because there are not enough books.  It is because there are oh-so many to choose from.  I still like going to the book store.  I love the smell and the treasure hunt of seeing some of what is available.  But it is just a tiny piece of my quest for knowledge and entertainment.  (I also have 200+ channels of television and thousands of documentaries available online for my instant gratification.  Amazon lists about 50 documentaries on Astronomy right now, most of them free.) 

 

One of the great joys of living as long as I have is to experience the wonder of instant access to the wisdom and knowledge of the world.  It is like sipping from a fire hose.    When I was a kid, to know about something was a long and involved quest for sources and then the task of sorting through what I found.  Today, to know something, all I have to do is wonder.


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#23 Michael Covington

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Posted 10 August 2024 - 12:51 PM

WELL SAID!   I would add just one more thing: PUBLISHING is easier than ever.  if you can write, you can get published  (On your own web pages if nothing else!  But in fact also everywhere -- a book doesn't have to sell 5,000 copies to be worth producing -- high-quality production costs much less than ever before.)


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#24 yuzameh

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Posted 10 August 2024 - 02:52 PM

WELL SAID!   I would add just one more thing: PUBLISHING is easier than ever.  if you can write, you can get published  (On your own web pages if nothing else!  But in fact also everywhere -- a book doesn't have to sell 5,000 copies to be worth producing -- high-quality production costs much less than ever before.)

Spoken as a consumer.

 

Businesses, well, less cost, more profit, more doing bugger all to achieve those, that's the ethos.  Nothing wrong with that, but folk forget that logic and even nature of sale product are irrelevant to business, and the sales department is often in charge over even production management and maintenance.

 

Otherwise you would be right.

 

This is exemplified by the frequent complaints about print on demand book quality.  The inherent nature of a business is to make profit, a business neither an immoral nor a moral thing inherently.  Thus the question becomes "print only 500? we'll only break even" as in, "why bother?".

 

Yes some publishers will go for loss leaders but they are usually large enough to be well profitable anyway so can flirt with the 'qudos' and 'reputation' aspect businesses sometimes like.

 

I don't think any University Presses print their own stuff anymore, or sometimes even publish it in practice, despite having their name on publication is more subcontracted.



#25 Michael Covington

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Posted 10 August 2024 - 02:57 PM

Of course printing is subcontracted.  Some of my books published in England were printed in Hong Kong or something like that.  Publishing means investing money in producing the books and then selling them to bookstores and individuals.  There is no reason for the manufacturing to have to be done on-site (although some is; I've seen it going on, in Cambridge).

The cost of editing and typesetting, in particular, has come down tremendously thanks to computers.  So it is more feasible to publish very specialized books that will only sell a couple hundred copies.  In academia we see this all the time.


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