26 replies to this topic

[marvyyk]

Hi CN!

 

I'm a SIRIL user. I'm imaging most of the time with a Zenithstar 73 and a Risingcam IMX571 OSC under a Bortle 9 sky...

 

I like SIRIL but I did not find any settings for its noise reduction options that really helps my processing... It is the sky quality?!

 

I'm curious to hear from other SIRIL users on there noise reduction techniques... Do you use SIRIL? If so, how?!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

CS.

 

Marc

[psienide]

Hi CN!

 

I'm a SIRIL user. I'm imaging most of the time with a Zenithstar 73 and a Risingcam IMX571 OSC under a Bortle 9 sky...

 

I like SIRIL but I did not find any settings for its noise reduction options that really helps my processing... It is the sky quality?!

 

I'm curious to hear from other SIRIL users on there noise reduction techniques... Do you use SIRIL? If so, how?!

 

Thanks in advance!

 

CS.

 

Marc

The most effective noise reduction in the current release is in my experience is the Anscombe VST. I usually set it to.5 modulation but it depends on the stack. It is really only effective when run during linear stage.

 

In the current 1.3.2 Alpha release, there is direct GraXpert integration, and the AI noise reduction there is the best so far. There is also a new Edge Preserving Filters option which is a little better than the old noise reduction.

[vidrazor]

I like SIRIL but I did not find any settings for its noise reduction options that really helps my processing... It is the sky quality?!

I'm curious to hear from other SIRIL users on there noise reduction techniques... Do you use SIRIL? If so, how?!

Thanks in advance!

I don't use NR in Siril. Some folks are using the new NR engine in the free open source program GraXpert on fresh stacks, but I don't like that approach either.

 

I do all my NR after I've stretched my stars and targets separately, and really the target separation is the one that needs it. I export as 16 bit TIFs and use either the "low light" algorithm in Topaz DeNoise (no longer available), or ON1 NoNoise (only good for nebulosity, not good for galaxy data), or the wavelet and deconvolution NR processes in the free open source RawTherapee.

 

There's also a relatively recent NR engine developed by the fellow who developed AstroSharp, and it has been incorporated into the AstroSharp program. I have not used this as of yet, but may be a useful tool. I'm not sure if it could be incorporated into the Siril workflow or not.

 

If you have Phtotoshhop, Adobe has been keeping up with the Joneses and has updated the noise reduction processes to also include some AI NR that may or may not be beneficial in astro work, have not used it.

[rj144]

I use GraXpert on the linear pic.  I find it helps GREATLY if I use it when linear.  

[Skyshooter]

I use Graxpert also on the starless image after running starnet. I use it before combining the stars...

[TheStarsabove]

I use GraXpert on either linear or stacked, it works well on both (I use StarTools if doing GraXpert on a stretched stack, though, but using Siril shouldn’t be different). Siril’s noise reduction aren’t bad, though, and they take WAY less time!!!

[marvyyk]

Thanks for sharing your experience and tips!! It's very interesting!

 

I used a few time GraXpert, but it takes ages to run its denoise tool on my laptop. 

 

I will try again SIRIL Anscombe VST with 0.5 modulation, and see what I get!

 

CS

[TheStarsabove]

Thanks for sharing your experience and tips!! It's very interesting!

 

I used a few time GraXpert, but it takes ages to run its denoise tool on my laptop. 

 

I will try again SIRIL Anscombe VST with 0.5 modulation, and see what I get!

 

CS

Yeah, you have to have time to spare if you are going to do GraXpert (or some AMAZING computer!).

[marvyyk]

Yeah, you have to have time to spare if you are going to do GraXpert (or some AMAZING computer!).

Not my case for both parts! 

[Borodog]

NoiseXTerminator is the bomb. Amazing.

[TheStarsabove]

NoiseXTerminator is the bomb. Amazing.

Well yeah, of course, if you want to pay $300 for P.I and an additional $100 for NoiseXTerminator, but I don’t think he wants to spend that (I could be wrong). I would love that (and BlurXTerminator) someday, but funds are limited…

[vidrazor]

Well yeah, of course, if you want to pay $300 for P.I and an additional $100 for NoiseXTerminator, but I don’t think he wants to spend that (I could be wrong). I would love that (and BlurXTerminator) someday, but funds are limited…

NoiseXTerminator will work on Photoshop or Affinity Photo. BlurXTerminator is P.I. only, but then there's AstroSharp.
 

[TheStarsabove]

NoiseXTerminator will work on Photoshop or Affinity Photo. BlurXTerminator is P.I. only, but then there's AstroSharp.
 

Seriously? I might have to invest in Affinity Photo then, just for the amazing N.R. Does StarXTerminator also work with Affinity?

 

I have never been able to get AstroSharp to work, it always turned out weird results. 

 

However, this is off topic, so I must restrain myself (thanks for the tip, though!). 

[Kbobrex]

I don't have or use PI or PS.  Siril for stacking and most pre-processing.  Was never too impressed with Siril's noise reduction. After Siril I usually finished up with a combination of Luminar Neo, which has regular noise reduction as well as an add on "noiseless" mode.  I found it a bit too aggressive for astro processing.  When Affinity was on sale a while ago I got it cheap expressly to be able to use NXT. I don't think I paid $100 for NXT but whatever I did, it was totally worth it as it lives up to all the praise.  As a bonus Affinity has astro-specific macros that I'm working my way through.  NXT via Affinity works like magic.  I also use AstroSharp but only for sharpening. With NXT it really hasn't been necessary to branch out further.

Edited by Kbobrex, 05 August 2024 - 11:36 PM.

[Borodog]

Yes, i use NXT via Affinity Photo.

[marvyyk]

Very interesting exchange again! Thanks to all!

 

I use GIMP to finish up my images, I like (and it's free)... I found a plug-in for noise reduction "XiMagic - XiDenoiser". But I find it to agressive. It most be a general image denoiser.

 

I have still a couple photos to process, so I will be ablt to do more test with SIRIL soon... 

 

CS

[vidrazor]

Does StarXTerminator also work with Affinity?

Yes, StarXTerminator works in Photoshop and Affinity Photo. Only BlurXTerminator is P.I

 

I use GIMP to finish up my images, I like (and it's free)... I found a plug-in for noise reduction "XiMagic - XiDenoiser". But I find it to agressive. It most be a general image denoiser.

I have still a couple photos to process, so I will be ablt to do more test with SIRIL soon...

Unless you're working with a Linux machine, you should seriously look into Affinity Photo. No subscription, and is presently on sale at the moment at half price for $35 US. It can use Photoshop plugins, has built-in astrophotography tools, and one of it's developers has a series of astrophotographic macros for color, monochrome, and various astro palette image processing.
 

[TheStarsabove]

Yes, StarXTerminator works in Photoshop and Affinity Photo. Only BlurXTerminator is P.I

 

Unless you're working with a Linux machine, you should seriously look into Affinity Photo. No subscription, and is presently on sale at the moment at half price for $35 US. It can use Photoshop plugins, has built-in astrophotography tools, and one of it's developers has a series of astrophotographic macros for color, monochrome, and various astro palette image processing.
 

Oh my, well maybe I should look into it... I was originally thinking of purchasing it for processing Milky Way pictures, but maybe I should get it anyway. 

[marvyyk]

Yes, StarXTerminator works in Photoshop and Affinity Photo. Only BlurXTerminator is P.I

 

Unless you're working with a Linux machine, you should seriously look into Affinity Photo. No subscription, and is presently on sale at the moment at half price for $35 US. It can use Photoshop plugins, has built-in astrophotography tools, and one of it's developers has a series of astrophotographic macros for color, monochrome, and various astro palette image processing.
 

Thanks for the advice.. I will think about that... 

 

Note that Gimp has also a plugin to use Photoshop plugins... well. TBC.

 

CS (here, clouds...)

[vidrazor]

Thanks for the advice.. I will think about that... 

Note that Gimp has also a plugin to use Photoshop plugins... well. TBC.

Well, one weakness GIMP has is that it does not have layer processes, that allow you to parametrically apply processes like levels, curves, hue/sat, etc., and not only be able to go back and modify them if needed, but the layer transforms also have their own layer masks, so you apply a process non-linearly across your image data.

 

Layers also have built-in luminosity gradient masking, which I have not seen in GIMP either. These two tools alone greatly empower image data post processing, in general, as well as in astro image data processing. Image stacking and background extraction are also native in Affinity Photo, along with the aforementioned astrophotographic macros plugin.

 

So really, for only $35 US at the moment, you're getting a powerful image data processor with tools not available to you in GIMP.

[marvyyk]

Well, one weakness GIMP has is that it does not have layer processes, that allow you to parametrically apply processes like levels, curves, hue/sat, etc., and not only be able to go back and modify them if needed, but the layer transforms also have their own layer masks, so you apply a process non-linearly across your image data.

 

Layers also have built-in luminosity gradient masking, which I have not seen in GIMP either. These two tools alone greatly empower image data post processing, in general, as well as in astro image data processing. Image stacking and background extraction are also native in Affinity Photo, along with the aforementioned astrophotographic macros plugin.

 

So really, for only $35 US at the moment, you're getting a powerful image data processor with tools not available to you in GIMP.

It is not a Gimp thread... but nevertheless, I'm not sure about the red line... I use layers in Gimp to modify curves, levels, etc... I'm not good thou...

[BQ Octantis]

Did you read the RTFM?

 

https://siril.readth.../denoising.html

 

BQ

[marvyyk]

Did you read the RTFM?

 

https://siril.readth.../denoising.html

 

BQ

Yep... I still remeber this : OSC images may denoise less well than mono or composited colour images.

 

Nevertheless, it is nice to read other experience and approche to process there images (and reduce noise).

 

CS

Edited by marvyyk, 06 August 2024 - 07:11 PM.

[vidrazor]

It is not a Gimp thread... but nevertheless, I'm not sure about the red line... I use layers in Gimp to modify curves, levels, etc... I'm not good thou...

Yes I know, but we're discussing noise reduction options, and what tools we may have at our disposal to put them to use.

 

And no, there are no layer transforms in GIMP. You can apply transforms to a layer, but it has to be a pixel layer, and the process is destructive, in other words, not parametric.

 

This is not to say to not keep GIMP around, as there are some neat GIMP-only plugins (which, BTW, I believe there's a few noise reduction plugins for GIMP), but generally speaking, you're better off learning, and working with, Affinity Photo.

Edited by vidrazor, 06 August 2024 - 09:58 PM.

[Oort Cloud]

+1 for GraXpert3. I typically use it near the end on a color image. Works very well.