57 replies to this topic

[GalaxyPiper]

"Pop"...Ok, here I am. (repeating post from the C-8 forum)

 

Well, our clubs storage has been bought out. Including the C8's we had been hoarding.

 

As a 501©3, storage is just draining of the club's money with no benefit to our members.

 

We are not in the position to do repairs, and broken telescopes serve no purpose to our members.

 

So we found a buyer, that can and will do all of that. It became a win-win for us.

 

I was able to rescue the clubs C-14 however, with my own donation to the club and have started to go though it and see what needs attention. It's an old Orange beast.

 

Serial number 458 on the mount.  Nothing about the telescope is lite however. Not the OTA, not the massive forks, not the wedge or the robust tripod. I had to remove the OTA from the trunk, before I could remove the trunk out of my car, and I removed the arms off of the base to keep from throwing my back out for where it was sitting in the front seat.

 

These old Orange C-14s are not outreach telescopes, or portable enough to take to star parties.

 

Yes, all the parts can be broken down if a person really wants to go out of their way to do so, but they really are meant to be left at home, and preferably on a pier.

 

The DEC motor is missing, and so I have one of those on order. And the cross hairs in the finder scope are gone, so those will need to be replaced. I had to buy a A/C cord for it and I'll have to make a two-switch hand control for it. I'll also will need to find a knob for the DEC, it seems to be missing as well.

 

But overall, all the hardware is there, so that at least doesn't need to be hunted down.

 

I had put this in the C8 forum, and the only excuse I had for posting it there is I found one black C8 screw knob in the trunk that does not go to this telescope.

 

I haven't had a chance to look through it yet, but our clubs President looked through it a couple of months ago and was quite impressed with the views. He had attached a "D" rail on it temporarily one time and took it to one outreach event.

 

Our City's Science Museum once owned this telescope, and when they moved to a new location donated it to us, and it is now in my hands.

 

I don't consider myself as an owner, just a conservator that will have it for a little while, then hopefully be passed on to someone else's hands at a later date.

 

Right now, it needs some TLC...

 

 

Captain Ahab and the Seagulls are guarding it, and promises it won't sleep with the fishes...

Update: The hand box, six strand wire cable, and the switches have been ordered from Amazon and should be delivered today.

The six pin Cinch Jones plug was also ordered and should be here sometime in a few days. Looking in McMaster Carr for the DEC hand knob.

Edited by GalaxyPiper, 03 March 2025 - 08:19 AM.

[GalaxyPiper]

I have a Classic C14 ... I am the 2nd owner, the brother of the original owner sold it following the passing of the buyer....

 

So ... its an early one for sure,

esp. as that same brother was also trying to sell me a 10" folded R.E. Brandt refractor !! 

Too bad I didn't have the $$ nor the mounting for that baby, esp. as it had NEVER seen starlight !

 

My C14 is marked on the fork stamp:

1  6  2  4

 

 

Can anyone translate these #'s ?

 

Should I be reading: 1 62nd made ... 1974 ?

 

thx,

Alexander

You know, I took a close look at the name plate on the front of the fork Drive, and Mine has a "1" on the far left of the space, then the number "458" then way over almost of the edge of the writing area another "8"???

 

By this scheme, it would work out to be "first production run, 45th in that quarter, made in 1978? 1988?....then what is the last number "8" signify? A quality mark? Passed all tests? Clocked out at 8? Tested eight times? or Still have eight fingers left?

 

This needs to be explained a little better. There are no other identifying numbers or marks.

Edited by GalaxyPiper, 03 March 2025 - 07:42 PM.

[Kasmos]

You know, I took a close look at the name plate on the front of the fork Drive, and Mine has a "1" on the far left of the space, then the number "458" then way over almost of the edge of the writing area another "8"???

 

By this scheme, it would work out to be "first production run, 45th in that quarter, made in 1978? 1988?....then what is the last number "8" signify? A quality mark? Passed all tests? Clocked out at 8? Tested eight times? or Still have eight fingers left?

 

This needs to be explained a little better. There are no other identifying numbers or marks.

It likeley follows the same numbering system that was used on the sand cast C8s and C5s.

 

1=1st Quarter

458= 458th made

8=1978

[GalaxyPiper]

It likeley follows the same numbering system that was used on the sand cast C8s and C5s.

 

1=1st Quarter

458= 458th made

8=1978

Makes sense, but I can't imagine that there are that many made. This is afterall an institutional telescope and not made for the average person.

 

The price for these telescopes when new were about the same as a Chevrolet or Volkswagen of the same era, hardly an everymans telescope.

 

Also,

 

It is interesting to understand the technology and engineering decisions made on the design and features of this telescope. It's built like a tank, and had a wired hand control like a slide projector of the same era.

 

50 years ago...they did not have bluetooth, or WiFi, any type of wireless tech. They barely had red LED numbered calculators and Apple and IBM 5150s were both in their infancy. Plastics even, were not robust enough to even handle the weight of this scope because it was all metal and thick mirrored glass.

 

In the span of a little less than 50 years ago, China had only been opened to the west 6 years earlier by Nixon in 1972.

And we're a little more than peasants.

 

I value the telescope for its abilities, but in equal measure value this history it has witnessed and the design and engineering choices given the era it was made in.

 

This is what I find interesting about tech, like studying and old sword from an ancient battle field. It still cuts both ways like a modern sword, but how it was perceived and created and handled were different, given what they had to work with.

 

When I look at objects, I look through a prism as a historian, engineer, and scientist, as well as a miner, trucker, smelter, and raw material supplier, and think about the journey it took to be created and born out of the efforts of man.

 

Yeah, I know, I should just take it for granted and look though it...but to me, it's a combination of so many others and their efforts and energy that have come before. Like looking at a castle, or an ancient city, and thinking about the choices they had to work with to get to this point.

 

That's why these telescopes need to be cherished and maintained for future generations. 

We have a habit of throwing out so much of our past, and forget we stand on the shoulders of giants.

 

That of which, may never come this way again...

Edited by GalaxyPiper, 04 March 2025 - 01:32 PM.

[rongee]

Hi,

 

And thanks for all of this great information.

 

I started this thread awhile back with the hopes of gathering up information on the C14's out there, just as others have done with other telescopes.  I was dragged away to work on another project, refurbishing an orange tube C14, vintage 1980's, in a student observatory.  That work continues, but I'm trying to get back to this as well, and bring all of this information together in some sort of database that everyone can then have access to.  Slow but steady, I guess.

 

I'm putting together a diary of sorts on the work that we did to break down and clean up that old C14.  We're certainly not experts, but I hope that our notes and pictures might help others who might want to try the same thing.  There are others who have done this, of course, and so we're just hoping to add to that knowledgebase.

 

Thanks again for everyone's contributions so far.

 

Ron

[Kasmos]

Makes sense, but I can't imagine that there are that many made. This is afterall an institutional telescope and not made for the average person.

 

If I got it right I believe the C14 came out in 1971. I don't know for sure (or if it's the same for the other models) but perhaps 458 is the total  number of all of them since the first one to yours. That's only about 15 a year and I believe quite a few colleges were buying them.

 

There's a few reasons they were popular with colleges and institutions and I believe Celestron marketed them this way 1. While they were expensive to the average person, when some school observatories were upgraded/remodeled they were less expensive than many of the old telescopes they might have replaced. 2. Since it was a new compact design it was often larger in aperture than what it replaced. 3. It's compact size also mean you could have a smaller building for newly constructed observatories.

[GalaxyPiper]

Hi,

 

And thanks for all of this great information.

 

I started this thread awhile back with the hopes of gathering up information on the C14's out there, just as others have done with other telescopes.  I was dragged away to work on another project, refurbishing an orange tube C14, vintage 1980's, in a student observatory.  That work continues, but I'm trying to get back to this as well, and bring all of this information together in some sort of database that everyone can then have access to.  Slow but steady, I guess.

 

I'm putting together a diary of sorts on the work that we did to break down and clean up that old C14.  We're certainly not experts, but I hope that our notes and pictures might help others who might want to try the same thing.  There are others who have done this, of course, and so we're just hoping to add to that knowledgebase.

 

Thanks again for everyone's contributions so far.

 

Ron

Hi Ron,

 

I would be very happy to collaborate with you in anyway possible. I was cleaning the heavy mount this morning and noticed two cast numbers in two different places.

 

The top of the wedge mount has a casting number of: 51472 and the bottom footer has a casting number of: 51475. I would think these are casting numbers of some sort, or internal part numbers that Celestron was using when they needed to keep track of inventory.

 

Then assemblers would go and get the associated parts to build the needed mount.

 

I don't think there are 5 quarters in a year, unless I missed that day in my elementary school class.

 

I haven't even looked at the OTA very hard, but nothing stood out to me. The back of the SCT mirror may have a date code written or stamped on the back, but I am not about to take the OTA apart just to satisfy my curiosity.

I may attempt to snake a camera down through one of the mirror locking holes and have a peek however.

 

It would be nice to have Celestron to straighten this out for us. But Synta may now have the intellectual property, and it is stored somewhere else. Many of the early workers and engineers may no longer be alive at this point to tell us.

If they were thirty then, they are pushing 80 now or older. Thats why this needs to be nailed down as quickly as possible.

 

Anyway, I will be keeping updates here as my progress builds on itself as well. My methods are to make sure everything is clean and working as it should, then doing any touch up or painting. 

I always get as much documentation to go with it that I can find and match them up. Either getting the originals or printing out useable copies.

 

These also serve as a guide, as well has historical documentation.

 

Bryan

Edited by GalaxyPiper, 04 March 2025 - 02:24 PM.

[ccwemyss]

Long before Celestron was bought out (multiple times) they stopped claiming to be able to connect serial numbers to manufacturing dates. They often started with some simple scheme, then as the product changed or ran out of numbers, the scheme changed to whatever someone came up with. That kind of record keeping wasn't a priority in a company that was perpetually unsure of its own long-term viability, then rushing to fill orders during the Halley craze, then trying to find a buyer when the market crashed. 

 

Chip W. 

[GalaxyPiper]

Found another mold or cast stamp on the bottom of the fork base stand: 51481.

 

Looks like everything that was sand cast had a mold/cast stamp. I'm willing to bet the OTA rear back focuser cap has one too, on the inside. Every other one was on the bottom or underside.

 

And Chip W. That makes perfect sense, but it is also sloppy of any manufacturer, because what of the need for a recall, or tracking if it is stolen?

 

This is why the police started telling everyone to start putting their drivers license on all possessions. 

 

Heck, even car manufacturers didn't start putting serial numbers on cars until the early 1960s, mostly because they went by model numbers only. But then disputes started to come up on stolen vehicles, so congress made them start putting serial numbers on vehicles, then engines, then everything else.

 

Hence the whole numbers matching thing between engines and vehicles. Because of crime.

High end items like watches, and cameras were early adopters, and it then became a stamp of quality and for warranty services. Once things became trackable, then owning them and the fear of being stolen became less so. 

 

The hobby market of telescopes I guess, didn't get the message apprently, until much later, if at all.

 

I look for serial numbers, because it tells me how serious the manufacturer takes its product to heart.

A serial number is like a name, an identity. And the company is willing to back up services for it, because they are giving birth to it and it's a contract that says they will help the customer maintain it, as long as the company is alive.

 

Long serial numbers can contain features of that particular product has, or type of paint, the plant that it came out of, and or engine or firmware it started with. As well as, model number and year.

 

I am disappointed in manufacturers that have skipped this step. Because it tells me they put their importance of making money above that of their customers. Share holders can be quilty of this as well, making manufacturer's cut corners to satisfy their own share holder greed..

 

But I transgress, and I should not do that here. It would just make things easier, if for no other reason to date when it was manufactured.

 

So excuse my drawn out kibbizing here. If it wasn't worth all the fuss, we wouldn't be fussing over it would we.

 

Keep polishing those gems of yesteryear. They are so well built, and the optics so good, they deserve all the effort we put into them. And the story's they tell, make it all worth it.

 

 

This is my serial number plate on the C-14 fork drive...look how messed up this is.

It's hard to really see these numbers unless you use a flashlight (torch, for our British cousins) on edge around the plate.

It helps to see the definition of the light stamped numbers of 1...458.........8. Off to the far right.

 

Bryan

Edited by GalaxyPiper, 05 March 2025 - 08:44 AM.

[VictorMG]

Here's mine, but I don't know serial number yet. The pic from auction lQQks like 

4.         34.      . But it hard to tell, as I'm going by auction pic. I won't know to 3/30. The auction house said the original owner said from 1972 I believe.  It was used 3 times and stored for decades according to auctioneer. 

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[VictorMG]

I think only one was made, the one for the printed advertisement they made.

I think you're correct.  I've never seen a c14 tri

[VictorMG]

No prooooof there ever was one sold. Maybe the pics of that tri were painted over and sold as a normal color C14.  Unless that tri C14 is in a closet and worth millions as being the only one in the world.

Are you telling me my C16, being the only Black and White ever made is worth  million.

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[VictorMG]

Black and white C16, only one ever built. I have all parts. Drive needs work. I have pier, motor. Everything,  counterweight, hand controller.

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[GalaxyPiper]

Holly mollie...that's huge!!!

 

Nice picts on the Orange 14. And I see you have the smaller trunk for the disasembled forks and mount as well!

Good job!

Edited by GalaxyPiper, 08 March 2025 - 03:39 PM.

[VictorMG]

Holly mollie...that's huge!!!

 

Nice picts on the Orange 14. And I see you have the smaller trunk for the disasembled forks and mount as well!

Good job!

Yes, the original, unused Celestron Peir for an observatory, and original dew shield is included. It also comes with hand controller and declination motor as well. 

[VictorMG]

The only Black and White c 16 ever made. All others are blue and white. I have all the parts and accessories. Maybe I'll make a registry for C16's.

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[VictorMG]

Holly mollie...that's huge!!!

 

Nice picts on the Orange 14. And I see you have the smaller trunk for the disasembled forks and mount as well!

Good job!

The C 16 is in parts, very good condition. It weighs 850lbs., hence why it's in parts. We had to disassemble it, in order to make it packable and movable.  It came from a Observatory next to Southern Illinois Universities observatories. 

[GalaxyPiper]

The only Black and White c 16 ever made. All others are blue and white. I have all the parts and accessories. Maybe I'll make a registry for C16's.

Lol...you would be the only one! Not much of a registry!

[VictorMG]

Lol...you would be the only one! Not much of a registry!

Actually,  I think there were about 2 dozen C16's made and one black and white one. They're identical in every sence but color.  

[CHASLX200]

Wonder how mushy the C16's were?

[VictorMG]

Wonder how mushy the C16's were?

I've never seen a mushy blue and white, of any size.  They were made with intricate detail and were military grade.. The C16 was strapped on to a 747 during space shuttle launches in order to video and capture launch. The moon looks crazy sharp in this thing. I think it's  an f 11 or f12.

[CHASLX200]

I've never seen a mushy blue and white, of any size.  They were made with intricate detail and were military grade.. The C16 was strapped on to a 747 during space shuttle launches in order to video and capture launch. The moon looks crazy sharp in this thing. I think it's  an f 11 or f12.

I looked thru three white C's and none were that hot.  A C4 , 6 and 10.

Edited by CHASLX200, 09 March 2025 - 08:46 AM.

[starman876]

I've never seen a mushy blue and white, of any size.  They were made with intricate detail and were military grade.. The C16 was strapped on to a 747 during space shuttle launches in order to video and capture launch. The moon looks crazy sharp in this thing. I think it's  an f 11 or f12.

The C10 I had was really great.   No mush ball thats for sure.  Of course there is no details in the mush ball report. Was the scope collimated, what was the seeing like and was it cooled down properly or was it focused properly.  

[CHASLX200]

The C10 I had was really great.   No mush ball thats for sure.  Of course there is no details in the mush ball report. Was the scope collimated, what was the seeing like and was it cooled down properly or was it focused properly.  

The C10 i used was ok. But left saying well nothing in the view that threw me back in the seat.  It was not bad.  But not many scopes throw me back in the seat pete.  Darn sure Zambuto like Newts do and APO's.  A SCT is held back thanks to the corrector and big C/O and there is no way around it.  No matter how good a C8 can be and i had a killer it is still not as sharp and snappy as my 826's.

[starman876]

The C10 i used was ok. But left saying well nothing in the view that threw me back in the seat.  It was not bad.  But not many scopes throw me back in the seat pete.  Darn sure Zambuto like Newts do and APO's.  A SCT is held back thanks to the corrector and big C/O and there is no way around it.  No matter how good a C8 can be and i had a killer it is still not as sharp and snappy as my 826's.

Amazing that even with the difraction spikes from the spider you claim the 826 is sharp as can be.  That is the one reason I try and stay away from dobs and newts and stick to APO's