14 replies to this topic

[ericb760]

I've been an amateur astronomer for decades now, but really got back into the hobby in the last year. My focus is on refractors, but I own two SCT's as well. I don't really have room for a Dob. I live under a Bortle 7 sky, but I have access to much darker skies within an hour's drive. 

I really like the "photons to eyeball" concept of visual astronomy, but, obviously, I am limited to the brighter celestial objects for casual viewing. As for AP, I just don't have any interest in post-processing and all that goes with it. Plus, my friends that do AP have spent upwards of $10.000 acquiring all of the necessary gear. I can't afford that, nor would I choose AP even if I could.

I am a USAF vet, so I have some experience with NV. In fact, back in the 90's a friend had a monocular NV and I was delighted with it. Comet Hale-Bopp was a dim naked eye object that came alive under the NV scope.

Obviously, I am interested. However, I would have to sell a good portion of my astro gear to afford even a modest NV purchase. Then there is the learning curve.

 

How does one attach an NV scope to the focuser?

Do I really need the filters I'm reading about here?

What is a decent, entry level NV scope, how much do they cost, and how do I determine that it will work for astro NV?

Sorry if these are redundant questions.

[The Ardent]

It would be best to find someone with NV and see in person. An observing buddy had the Collins I3 as my introduction to NV, years before I actually purchased mine .

See if this is helpful
http://www.cloudynig...ee-perspectives

[bobhen]

There is very little  learning curve. An image intensifier is 10x easier to learn/use than your Celestron AVX goto mount.

 

In prime mode one attaches a $30 C-mount to 1.25" adapter to the end of the intensifier and you slip the intensifier into a focuser just like an eyepiece
In afocal mode one uses an eyepiece before the intensifier and attaches the intensifier to the eyepiece with an adapter. Then you slip eyepiece and intensifier into a focuser. 

 

Yes, you will need filters. You will need a 685 IR Pass filter for all non-Nebula objects to cut down light pollution. And you will need a Ha filter for all nebulas.  Most start with a 6 nm Ha filter or something in the 3.5 to 6nm range. You will need to add filter and adapter costs to your budget.

 

Most any scope will work with NV. But some work better than others for different objects - just like with imaging. You can image with just about any scope but for wide fields you want fast and for image scale (to see detail) you want slower. Many here use multiple telescopes from large Dobsonians to SCTs to fast small Newtonians and small fast achromatic refractors. Some use 50mm guide scopes and camera lenses as well.

 

I use a C8 At F10 and reduced to F7, a 102mm F5 refractor, a 120mm F5.25 refractor and a 50mm F3.75 refractor.

 

Intensifiers are not inexpensive. Nice ones with decent specs will run $4,000 and up give or take and you need to add filters, etc. Do some research before you buy. Start by reading through the "Best of NV" "pinned topic" at the top of this forum.

 

Tele Vue sells both intensifiers and adapters. 

 

If you can swing it, NV is worth it. You'll get a new perspective on the Milky Way!

 

Good luck.

 

Bob

Edited by bobhen, 11 August 2024 - 05:20 AM.

[Jeff Morgan]

How does one attach an NV scope to the focuser?

Do I really need the filters I'm reading about here?

What is a decent, entry level NV scope, how much do they cost, and how do I determine that it will work for astro NV?

Sorry if these are redundant questions.

 

Two ways to interact with a scope.

 

1) The NV unit looks into the telescope eyepiece. Often referred to as “afocal”. As the PVS-14 is the most commonly used unit, most people do it this way. While this could be done hand-held, a threaded adapter is typically used.

 

2) On some NV bodies the front objective lens threads off, and a nosepiece takes it place. The NV unit replaces the telescope eyepiece in the focuser. Referred to as “prime focus” or “C-mount”. This is the more versatile of the approaches as one can easily use focal reducers, barlows, or even replace the scope with a SLR camera lens.

 

Need filters? No, but you will want one or two. Generally a small portion of the outlay. One of my favorites is 12nm H-a. Being somewhat “loose” compared to say, 5nm, it is less expensive.

 

A budget of $5,000 would get you a nice unit, the adapter(s), and a filter or two. You could go also go to the used market.

 

You could get obsessed with specs and the spec war, but anything in the low to mid 30’s SNR will be extremely useful for astronomy. My NV unit is 31 SNR, 64 line pairs, 0.3 EBI. Very good when I bought it in 2015, very pedestrian today. All I was able to do with it is observe 295+ objects out of the Sharpless catalog.

[slavicek]

I use NV pretty much exclusively on Nebulas. That's where NV rocks. Using NV on other astro objects may disappoint you, especially if $5k is lot of money for you. So ask yourself first what's your observing interest?

[ericb760]

I use NV pretty much exclusively on Nebulas. That's where NV rocks. Using NV on other astro objects may disappoint you, especially if $5k is lot of money for you. So ask yourself first what's your observing interest?

Nebulas would certainly be high up on the list. Something like the Double Cluster, and similar, I would imagine being a fun target as well. Even just scanning the Milky Way as it passes overhead. Keep in mind that I am not trying to switch form purely visual to purely NV. Rather, I'm looking at NV as a compliment to visual observation.

[Speedy1985]

Nebulas would certainly be high up on the list. Something like the Double Cluster, and similar, I would imagine being a fun target as well. Even just scanning the Milky Way as it passes overhead. Keep in mind that I am not trying to switch form purely visual to purely NV. Rather, I'm looking at NV as a compliment to visual observation.

NV is a great compliment to visual observing, like another tool in the toolbox. From light polluted areas it opens up a whole new set of objects. Globular clusters that you might otherwise not see become obtainable, for example. Handheld, the Milky Way is amazing and some nebula are visible also. 

[bobhen]

I use NV pretty much exclusively on Nebulas. That's where NV rocks. Using NV on other astro objects may disappoint you, especially if $5k is lot of money for you. So ask yourself first what's your observing interest?

I'm going to respectfully disagree. The poster lives under a Bortle 7 sky. I live under a Bortle 8 sky. Using an IR PASS filter really helps with contrast, even on non-nebula objects.

 

NV will resolve faint globulars that were previously smudges, giving many of these fainter globulars unique personalities.

 

Galaxies will of course not show the detail that is seen in even short exposure images. But NV will make most galaxies easier to spot and observer making some fainter ones easier to find and show detail in some where before they may have gone unnoticed.

 

Open clusters show more faint stars. 

 

Dark Nebulas (not Ha nebulas) really stand out against the brighter starry background.

 

The NV boost on Ha nebulas is so astounding that non-nebula objects don't get the same attention. But in light pollution, non-nebula objects are markedly improved - maybe not as much as nebulas but improved nevertheless. 

 

Here are just two examples: My C11 could only resolve half a dozen stars in 2158 but using NV my smaller 120mm refractor completely resolved that cluster.  I could never see galaxy 891 with my C11 but using NV in my smaller 120 mm refractor the galaxy is just glimpsed. 

 

In mild to heavy light pollution, NV will not only improve most objects but will save deep sky observing, by bringing the dark sky experience to people's backyards. 

 

Bob

[slavicek]

I'm going to respectfully disagree. The poster lives under a Bortle 7 sky. I live under a Bortle 8 sky. Using an IR PASS filter really helps with contrast, even on non-nebula objects.

 

NV will resolve faint globulars that were previously smudges, giving many of these fainter globulars unique personalities.

 

Galaxies will of course not show the detail that is seen in even short exposure images. But NV will make most galaxies easier to spot and observer making some fainter ones easier to find and show detail in some where before they may have gone unnoticed.

 

Open clusters show more faint stars. 

 

Dark Nebulas (not Ha nebulas) really stand out against the brighter starry background.

 

The NV boost on Ha nebulas is so astounding that non-nebula objects don't get the same attention. But in light pollution, non-nebula objects are markedly improved - maybe not as much as nebulas but improved nevertheless. 

 

Here are just two examples: My C11 could only resolve half a dozen stars in 2158 but using NV my smaller 120mm refractor completely resolved that cluster.  I could never see galaxy 891 with my C11 but using NV in my smaller 120 mm refractor the galaxy is just glimpsed. 

 

In mild to heavy light pollution, NV will not only improve most objects but will save deep sky observing, by bringing the dark sky experience to people's backyards. 

 

Bob

Bob, I also live in Bortle 8 sky, Boston, MA. My point to Eric was not to expect miracles from NV.

Eric, I can see the Double cluster from my back yard in my 4" telescope with no NV. Hence my question about what do you want to observe....

NV is another eyepiece. I have planetary eyepieces, I have wide FOV eyepieces, solar eyepieces... NV ...

Don't get me wrong, views with NV are amazing so if you can afford it go for it.

[ericb760]

Bob, I also live in Bortle 8 sky, Boston, MA. My point to Eric was not to expect miracles from NV.

Eric, I can see the Double cluster from my back yard in my 4" telescope with no NV. Hence my question about what do you want to observe....

NV is another eyepiece. I have planetary eyepieces, I have wide FOV eyepieces, solar eyepieces... NV ...

Don't get me wrong, views with NV are amazing so if you can afford it go for it.

I. too, can see the Double Cluster but only because I know where to look. Same for Andromeda. I can star hop to it, but what I'd like to be able to do is find these, and other, targets with NV and then switch to visual. To that end my research into the most economical way to invest in NV is to first buy a PVS-14 parts kit, and then save up to purchase an Intensifier Tube. With this buying strategy I can conceivably but together a NV Monocular for under 2k, which is about what my budget will allow right now. I understand that adapters and filters will add to that cost. 

[eyeoftexas]

to do is find these, and other, targets with NV and then switch to visual. 

Quite frankly you’re not going to want to.  I live in B8 skies and once you’ve seen how much more you can see using NV compared to normal visual, it is stunning.  When I’m in my backyard I almost exclusively use my NVD in afocal with my scopes (not for lunar time obviously). When I’m at my dark site with a big Dob, I hardly ever use it and enjoy pure visual. 

[slavicek]

Even thou at first it does not seem to make sense but using NV can really help one with pure visual. 

My example will be the "famous" Horse Head nebula. I was at Bortle 2 with my 22" DOB looking for HH with "regular" eyepiece. I am like it should be there, how come I cannot see it? So I put in NV with Ha filter and here it was, right there. Then I switched back to "regular" eyepiece again with the same magnification and there it was! I was looking at it all that time but I just could not see it! Once I knew how HH looked like I could see it. Actually one see mirror image of it with NV. It's back round is very faint so one really needs to pay attention to see it visually.

So, GL with your purchase.

[PEterW]

Under SQM 18.5 skies I was tracing out nebulous clouds of the Milky Way from scutum up into Cygnus the other night and rather an uncountable number of stars with a 685nm filter. Plenty of hydrogen nebulae, but the Milky Way was the highlight, without a 1x field of view you can’t get the overview. (B1/2 skies (probably) don’t exist in the UK.

Peter

[sixela]

With a 685nm IR-pass you won’s see H-alpha nebulae, of course…

[WheezyGod]

I've been an amateur astronomer for decades now, but really got back into the hobby in the last year. My focus is on refractors, but I own two SCT's as well. I don't really have room for a Dob. I live under a Bortle 7 sky, but I have access to much darker skies within an hour's drive.

I really like the "photons to eyeball" concept of visual astronomy, but, obviously, I am limited to the brighter celestial objects for casual viewing. As for AP, I just don't have any interest in post-processing and all that goes with it. Plus, my friends that do AP have spent upwards of $10.000 acquiring all of the necessary gear. I can't afford that, nor would I choose AP even if I could.

I am a USAF vet, so I have some experience with NV. In fact, back in the 90's a friend had a monocular NV and I was delighted with it. Comet Hale-Bopp was a dim naked eye object that came alive under the NV scope.

Obviously, I am interested. However, I would have to sell a good portion of my astro gear to afford even a modest NV purchase. Then there is the learning curve.

How does one attach an NV scope to the focuser?

Do I really need the filters I'm reading about here?

What is a decent, entry level NV scope, how much do they cost, and how do I determine that it will work for astro NV?

Sorry if these are redundant questions.

I think most of your questions have been answered. I’ll give you my take on some of them.

The learning curve with night vision isn’t in using it at night time (which is quite easy), but in figuring out what to get and why since most of the other gear is rare or unseen with normal visual setups. Things like the TV55 plossl which hardly anyone gets visually because it isn’t optimized exit pupil wise and an Ha filter which is only used for AP/EAA.

Since cost sounds like your biggest worry (was for most of us), you don’t need to buy Ha filters right away. I waited several months until I did. I missed out on nebula, but saw how much of a benefit NV still provides on galaxies and especially globular clusters.

If you buy the new RVM which allows you to use NV in prime with your telescope, then all you need is a cheap adapter and you’re good to go. You can wait on getting the TV55 plossl+67mm+NV adapter. I started with this setup using the older version of the RVM called the Mod3 which you can still buy at TNVC. It worked as a 26mm eyepiece which I could also use with a 2x barlow. Looked a lot at the spring galaxies and globular clusters.

I mention this not just because of deferring some of the long-term cost, but because there’s plenty here that go straight for the most well known nebula, but then never appreciate a lot of the smaller/fainter nebula or galaxies/globs.