93 replies to this topic

[Keith Rivich]

Anyone hear when registration is supposed to open? Rumor has it on Aug 15th.

[streak]

August 15th would be super early for TSP 2025.  While the TSP website has been semi-updated for TSP 2025, it still has sections reflecting the solar star party this past April.  The TSP Facebook hasn't been posted on since October 22, 2023.  

 

A few weeks ago, I heard Eldorado Star Party was opening registrations on August 16th, so maybe someone got TSP confused with ESP?  But now that I check the ESP website, it says registrations in late August.

[Keith Rivich]

Ok. TSP has an add in Sky And Tel showing registration starts Aug 15th. Misprint? 

[Joe F Gafford]

Misprint. Sunday Night, April 20, 2025 to Saturday Night, April 27, 2025 check https://texasstarparty.org/

Check in November/ December for start of registrations that start in mid-January for the lottery. If you have been there before, they will send you an e-mail from tsprooms informing you of the start of registrations. Remember, the event and ranch accommodations are separate. The lottery will determine your attendance and getting the ranch accommodations. Edit: The lottery covers the RV spaces and the ranch hotel and bunkhouses with little to the dry campers. If you dry camp in any of the available fields or in an unconnected popup or camper shell in the lower and middle fields, you'll more likely get in. Read the rules on these when it shows up on the website. They're still constructing that website. 

 

Joe

Edited by Joe F Gafford, 20 August 2024 - 09:34 PM.

[Jrags815]

So planning my first trip to this event, I know the ranch has multiple RV hook ups but is it a lottery to get one of those sites ?  

[Joe F Gafford]

This is mainly what the lottery is about. Reserving RV, hotel cabins and bunkhouse spaces.  

 

Joe

Edited by Joe F Gafford, 24 August 2024 - 09:12 AM.

[Jrags815]

so how or when do we put our names in for the lottery 

[Keith Rivich]

so how or when do we put our names in for the lottery 

When registration opens. 

[EVS]

August 15 moved until sometime September from a good source. 

[CarterB]

From their website it looks like registration is opening soon https://texasstarparty.org

I created an account so hopefully I get an email. Also looks like the lottery system is removed so first come? "There is no lottery for Prude Guest Ranch accommodations."

[lphilpot]

 Also looks like the lottery system is removed so first come? "There is no lottery for Prude Guest Ranch accommodations."

And did I just miss it (maybe it's not been posted yet) but has the registration fee been rolled into a single overall fee? I didn't see anything about registration apart from room and board (again unless I overlooked it).

[Keith Rivich]

And did I just miss it (maybe it's not been posted yet) but has the registration fee been rolled into a single overall fee? I didn't see anything about registration apart from room and board (again unless I overlooked it).

If I read correctly all fees (room and registration) have to be paid up front. Speaking of which, unless I am mistaken the prices for the hotel rooms are considerably higher then previous years. 

 

https://texasstarpar...oking-packages/

Edited by Keith Rivich, 11 October 2024 - 11:29 AM.

[lphilpot]

If I read correctly all fees (room and registration) have to be paid up front. Speaking of which, unless I am mistaken the prices for the hotel rooms are considerably higher then previous years. 

 

https://texasstarpar...oking-packages/

Yeah, I noticed that, too. $802 for a week in a bunkhouse (wow) and ~$2,300 for double motel room, both with 13 meals. But I didn't see the actual registration amount anywhere, which makes me wonder if it's all been rolled into one lump sum. As in past years I kinda wonder what the registration pays for: prizes, speakers, non-ranch infrastructure, non-astro activities (if any)? But that's a different topic.

 

IIRC the average "standalone" meal has been in the $17 range if purchased outside the meal plan, but I suspect that's higher than their actual bundled prices. I'm not strapped nor on bread and water and I understand costs have gone up but even if the meals are $200 that means we're paying ~$85 nightly for a concrete-floored, common bath, etc., bunk bed / room (i.e., in all fairness less than a roach motel). I've always stayed in the bunkhouses (except for maybe three years since 1989) and I have no complaints since they were cheap, but this just feels kinda steep for a bunkhouse -- Even if you subtract out registration.

 

But we don't know the full story so I'll let it go at that. At this point I'm not 100% sure I'm coming anyway -- Who knows, I might spend the week at Crow's Nest, do some astronomy and other stuff. Not at all yet decided.

[rsalva1]

Wow prices have gone way up! I like the bunk house as well but come on, no partial days?!?

[Keith Rivich]

Yeah, I noticed that, too. $802 for a week in a bunkhouse (wow) and ~$2,300 for double motel room, both with 13 meals. But I didn't see the actual registration amount anywhere, which makes me wonder if it's all been rolled into one lump sum. As in past years I kinda wonder what the registration pays for: prizes, speakers, non-ranch infrastructure, non-astro activities (if any)? But that's a different topic.

 

IIRC the average "standalone" meal has been in the $17 range if purchased outside the meal plan, but I suspect that's higher than their actual bundled prices. I'm not strapped nor on bread and water and I understand costs have gone up but even if the meals are $200 that means we're paying ~$85 nightly for a concrete-floored, common bath, etc., bunk bed / room (i.e., in all fairness less than a roach motel). I've always stayed in the bunkhouses (except for maybe three years since 1989) and I have no complaints since they were cheap, but this just feels kinda steep for a bunkhouse -- Even if you subtract out registration.

 

But we don't know the full story so I'll let it go at that. At this point I'm not 100% sure I'm coming anyway -- Who knows, I might spend the week at Crow's Nest, do some astronomy and other stuff. Not at all yet decided.

I believe the registration is $300 per person. 

[lphilpot]

Yikes... if so, that's more than twice what it was last time as I recall. Wasn't it $120 last year (which was up incrementally from $80 in 2018 / 2019, I think)? Apparently costs are rising, but wow...

[DeanS]

$300 registration fee if staying off site?  Wow, I think TSP has run its course for me

[Keith Rivich]

$300 registration fee if staying off site?  Wow, I think TSP has run its course for me

I found it on the booking information page, near the bottom:

6 yo and up $300

 

Now get this...

Toddler's to 6 years old 

 

wait for it

 

$150

 

$450 extra if you bring your 3 and 7 year old kids to enjoy the star party!

 

Are they jumping the shark?

[lphilpot]

Are they jumping the shark?

Hmm... Let's see if that's how it plays out.

 

I always saw the bunkhouses as low-tier but sufficient inexpensive lodging at an event that I enjoyed. After a night of observing I'd crash and once cleaned up the next morning, I was pretty much out of the bunkhouse until the following night. But the prices are now apparently pushing low-tier (off site) hotel room territory (with a private bath, etc.). Add in the -- IMO excessive -- registration and well... I mean, I love you guys, but $80+ a night to share a bunk / bath room with a dozen talking, snoring, farting astronomers isn't real high on my list! LOL

[Keith Rivich]

Hmm... Let's see if that's how it plays out.

 

I always saw the bunkhouses as low-tier but sufficient inexpensive lodging at an event that I enjoyed. After a night of observing I'd crash and once cleaned up the next morning, I was pretty much out of the bunkhouse until the following night. But the prices are now apparently pushing low-tier (off site) hotel room territory (with a private bath, etc.). Add in the -- IMO excessive -- registration and well... I mean, I love you guys, but $80+ a night to share a bunk / bath room with a dozen talking, snoring, farting astronomers isn't real high on my list! LOL

Yea. My wife is struggling with this as a hotel room (with 0 amenities, which I am ok with for the actual price the Ranch charges at other times) plus travel is going to run us close to $5000. I just got back from Chicken Killer and the cabins (with a full kitchen and showers) ran us $800 for the week. 

 

We can go on a 7 day Caribbean cruise, first class, for much less money. 

[Keith Rivich]

I'm curious,

 

Now that the pricing and conditions have been posted who all is planning to go to TSP?

 

I'm on the fence at the moment...

[Tempus]

We've been on the fence if we'd make another trip someday to Fort Davis but after seeing these rates, nope, we're going to spend our money on a different event. Next year, OkieTex, the Nebraska Star Party or maybe even the Enchanted Skies in New Mexico are looking a lot better for the money.

[Karl_B]

Hello Everyone.

 

Okay. Here is the nuts and bolts od TSP 2025 from the horse's mouth.

 

Due to website booking system development, we missed an August start to TSP 2025 registration.

 

Due to inflation, Prude accommodations have gone up. Increase in labor costs, food costs, utilities cost.  Everything.

Prude raised all of their rates.

 

Texas Star Party, Inc. will starting with TSP 2025, be the only booking agent for Prude Guest Ranch accommodations.

 

There are 2 Booking Rate Schedules.

• Schedule A Prude Onsite Attendee Accommodations This rate includes the TSP Event Fee and the different Prude Accommodation Charges as per the type of lodging you select.
• Schedule B Offsite Attendees This rate includes the TSP Event Fee and the Prude Facility Use Fee(which goes to the ranch 100%) The offsite attendees who didn't pay the equipment tent or trailer permit fees or who sleep in their trailers, cars, equipment tent during the night but didn't or don't pay Prude the Tent/Dry Camping fee...caused that fee to be instituted.  Prude is tired of people gaming the system.

And just so the picture you paint is clear.  The concerns some of you have is pricing or rather the increase in pricing.

 

Pretty rich, when ya consider that there is probably 3 to 4+ million dollars worth of gear brought to TSP when you included, cars, trucks, vans, trailers, motorhomes, cameras, telescope equipment, astro-imaging equipment and other bits and pieces. Let's break it down to ground level.

 

Hillside Cabin. 7 nights. $169.57/per night person

Family Cabin 7 nights $150.57/night per person

Bunkhouse bed 7 nights $114.57/night per person

All include 13 meals and TSP event fee

 

RV site 7 nights $77.00/night per person

Includes TSP Event Fee

ADD 13 meals for $365.00/person

 

Tent/Dry Camping 7 nights $45.82/night per person

Includes TSP Event Fee
ADD 13 meals for $365/person

 

OffSite is

 

Ages 6 and older $300.00 per person and includes TSP Event fee and Prude Facility Use Fee.

 

Toddlers might be lower, I have to qualify that with Prude management. But if might have to stay where it is priced.

 

Room at the Limpia is over $150/night

Meals can run you $30.00 for lunch and dinner in Fort Davis, Marfia and Alpine.  And higher if you want steak.

You want to talk about high prices.  A hamburger or a chicken fried steak is almost $20.00 without a soda, desert, cocktail, and gratuity.  Easily come close to $50.00 per person for the cheapest items on the menue.  Spending close to $100.00/person per day staying offsite is the norm.  I know.  I was there in April and in March this year.

 

So you stay offsite in a room at the Limpia priced for 2 people. Using the numbers above that is $2,450 for 7 nights. Add the $300 offsite fees and now you are up to $3,450.00 for 2 people.

That is more that was a Hillside cabin is with 13 meals and the TSP event fee is included.

 

Well inflation is beating everyone's ability to do things.

 

And Yes.   TSP had to increase its TSP Event Fee.  TSP cannot go in the "Red" each year to host the type  and quality of star party we produce and you its attendees expect.

 

It cost money to host a TSP Star Party. You are purchasing a vacation package that is put together by volunteers.  If you were purchasing an equivalent package from a commercial tour company, this package would cost you between $5,000 and $10,000 per person.

 

When  you read the Schedules, please keep in mind that these rates include your TSP Event Fee.

 

No Lottery

No list 3 preferred choices

No Registration and then later pay.
No Prude Ranch Deposit meaing no arguing with Prude staff or TSP staff that you paid your deposit even though TSP has not gotten  notice from the ranch that you did pay it or the ranch's Front Desk was not told you paid it by internal Prude staff....left hand....right hand.

 

No longer will TSP Housing (which no longer exist) select your actual Prude accommodation and the tell you what bed you are sleeping in.

Nope!

You will choose your Prude Accommodation type and then from the available listing that populates the browser window, you.....only youi....will select if you are in Crow's Nest, Mountainside 1 or 2, Hillside Cabin M1 through M35 or Family Cabin Whatever, or RV site 1 through 41 less 2 RV sites in that mix and/or RV sites A-K ( No I as in eye).  Or you are a tough cowboy or cowgirl and like to rough it in a tent or the back of your truck.

That will be your choice to make.  You will get a confirmation email sent to you to confirm your purchase.

But don't doddle making your choice and paying.  The system is timing you and if you do not complete  your selection in X minutes, it will punt you back to you accommodation selection menu.

 

We used this system with the eclipse, except TSP Housing and I still assigned the lodging.

 

I have added the next logical step and that is you the attendee selects their lodging. Just like picking your seat at a football game.

 

But no more TSP Housing. 

TSP Housing was burnt out.  4 to 5 months of dealing with crap. No one wants to do it. No one wants the abuse.

So it will go 21st Century and eveyone I guess will have to argue with themselves.

I am streamlining it as much as possible so that 1 person, any person can pick up the batton and  manage registration and housing by pulling a spreadsheet.

 

But if all you want is a no thrills no frills star party  And!

 

If all you are wanting to atttend a "Star Party"  that is a dark sky site but you don't like what you have to pay to have all the features and benefits that TSP as an organization and as an activity "Hosted" by TSP. And also keeping in mind that there are no salaries being paid by TSP to run the organization and the same for hosting the star party. Including all that is needed/required to get these features and benefits currently enjoyed by TSP attendees.

 

Well, What can you live without?

 

I will start the conversation/debate.

 

Attendees paying nothiing to attend a gathering of people at the Prude has happened 3 times in the recent and distant past.  80 attendees plus or minus 10 to 20 for 2021 and this year 2024.

You pay the ranch for accommodations and probably that is all you are charged.

 

 

You got an observing field with power cords brought in as a courtesy of Larry Beatty and friends. Larry and friends are good people.  And a semi adequate dark out of the buildings.  Which makes it more in line with an El Dorado Star Party. Definetly not a Winter Star Party, nor an OkieTex and not a TSP star party.

 

So what do you get for  your TSP event fee?  Everything stated here is what TSP provides and there is more  that is not listed.  And again no one it getting a salary....definetly not a living wage.. It is amazing that I and others do the TSP volunteer service and we work harder and sometimes longer hours than when we first started working and then later making the BIG BUCKS.   I should have never retired, I think. 

 

Soooo! your TSP Event fee that sometimes covers.....sometimes doesn't pays for the following:

Observing fields but with no electricity power grid

no teams of people to plan

recruit volunteers

have no volunteers-no ops managers

no team leads

no power cords

no power cords getting repaird

no travel expenses for the organization to reimburse those who are hauling TSP equipment and supplies

no lodging expenses to remimburse for early arrivals to set up the star party

no dark out supplies

no dark out teams

no front gate teams

no security to ensure that your equipment doesn't walk off during the day when you are sleeping

no evening speakers

No $5,000 in Speaker travel expenses( it is amazing what some want paid to be a guest speaker, TSP can definetly save a lot of money there

no Great Texas Give Away Door Prizes-save money there

No VIP Private observing session on one of McDonald Observatory telescopes

no TSP specific Afternoon McDonald Observatory tours

No Opening Sunday Welcomeing Lunch of hamburger

hotdogs and chips

No Afternoon Presentations

No TSP Star Party Year Specific T-shirt with a unique design

no merchandise to have to buy with TSP Year graphics

no graphics to design at al

No Observing challenge pin to buy (heck that alone is almost $1,000 right there)

No TSP Staff planning, organizing

managing and hosting a star party

No Advanced Observing, General

Novice, or Binocular Challenges

No Communication staff to address event issues and emergencies

no communication equipment to buy repair, replace

no cash awards

no Omega Centauri Award

no Lone Star Gazer award

No youth outreach

No John Wagoner award

No rented 12K lumen rear projection and screen rental

No General Liability insurance

No Directors and Officers Insurance

No Event Cancellation insurance

No Equipment Rental Insurance

No Business Cell Phone monthly payment.

No Website Services monthly payment

No email service monthly payment

No advertising/marketing costs

No TSP event supplies to buy

and the list goes on and on.

 

This list of "Things" cost money to acquire and that require funding. Funding that comes from the TSP Event Fee and the very small amount of donations people generously give. Funding that also has to cover the annual  and daily expenses of the organization.  And remember no one is getting paid to do any of this work. 

 

Not host a TSP star party? Heck TSP could save a lot of money by just doing that.

Heck, I would know what free time is again.

 

But why kill a tradition over a higher costs to host the event? Which translates into a higher per person "TSP Star Party" event fee.  Just think of where your money goes to attend a TSP event.  The majority of your cost, besides travel and equipment is lodging and meals.  Go rent a room at the Limpai, $150/night and $30.00/meal/person or more.

I just this morning researched what the average cost for one person the take a 1 week vacation in the United States. The averge cost is $1,991 for one person.  A low balled vacation is just under $800.00.

For me to go and vist either of my two sons, one is Pasadena, CA and the other in Cheyenne, WY if I am pulling the trailer orflat towing  the Jeep Wrangler $1,100 for Pasadena and $800 for Cheyenne. And that is  just gas. No meals or sleeping in a hotel or campground for 2 nights each way.

 

Yeah, I get it.  And TSP operation managers also get it.

 

But where do we play king soloman?  What do we cut out and by doing that cease to be the TSP  you expect when you drive through the Prude Front Gate?

I work at this every day.  Although  I did set a lot of TSP stuff off to the side to prepare for my 7th Degree Grand Master Unified Tae Kwon Do Black Belt test. a 4.5 hour test at the age of 71 was very interesting...a journey I started in 1972 and with Unified I started in 1990. And at the same time getting medical treatment that I am still undergoing.

 

TSP went onto the back burner for a bit.  Besides, the Eclipse event  drained TSP out of my heart and soul!  I needed a break from TSP to recharge.  I needed something to take my mind off treatments even though I had started test prep a year ago. I crankend into binary mode and all day everyday my focus and energy was that prep and the test.

It is very nice to complete the test and have the founder of the organization complement me on my patterns, techniques, board breaks and free sparring at the test and again at our Fall Invitational Unified Tae Kwon Do tournament and to be announced as a Grand Master was in and of itself fantastic!

  He said I was the best he had seen in  a long time. 

Sorry I must have seen a squirrel.  Lost track.  Oh yes, About TSP.
 

For all that I do, the operation managers do, the team leads do prior to anyone setting foot at Prude, 1,000's of hours of work go into producing a TSP star party. And no one gets paid.

 

The beneficiaries are those who attend and never help, never volunteer and vacation of the sweat of those who do volunteer.  And of course us volunteers do it for the other volunteers! And I/we thank each and everyone of them.  For without them TSP star party, heck any star party would never happen.

All of us that do are service oriented. We do this every year so that others can bring their equipment and for 7 nights have an astronomy vacation on a property where the hosting organization has obtained exclusive use of the property, darkened the building, laid down a power grid and yadayadayada.  Put on TSP.

 

And it is an "Astronomy Vacation".

 

I have not set up a telescope or if I did look through it since 2018 or 2017 at TSP.  The Ham Shack crew don't bring telescopes.  There are othes who are very  involved who do not bring their equipment either. We are all scurrying around behind the scenes making sure that everthing is going as planned and making adjustments and fixes when it breaks.

 

Why do we all volunteer and do all this works? To keep TSP alive and not have it come apart like Riverside.

 

What is embarrasing to put into perspective.  The increases in pricing that some of you are commenting on, is less money than you annually spend on your astronomy hobby when you buy a Telvue eyepiece or a Li-Po battery pack to charge your cell phone.  Speaking of cells phone most get a new cell phone every 2 years.  Those little guys cost over $1,000 to $1,700 depending on the make and model.

 

But if all you want is cheep, You can have cheep. But TSP won't be able to give it to you unless you want all that I listed above and more to go away.

 

TSP can do cheep. Prude Ranch can do cheep.

 

But it won't be a Texas Star Party, Inc. TSP star party. It won't be anyone's star party.  It will just be a bunch of people going out to a dark site and if you don't get enough to book at the venue to give you exclusive use of the venue, you will never get a dark out site.  TSP pays the ranch to get an exclusive use of the property.  And it isn't cheap!  No there is nothing cheep about that exclusive use fee.

 

It will just be a bunch of people getting together out on a field that maybe has a power grid and maybe not.  And all you are going to do is observe and/or astro-image, eat and sleep. Maybe you will have total dark out and maybe not.

 

But to keep TSP from going to go in the red to host a TSP star party the TSP event fee had to incur a rate increase.
The ranch's need, cost of doing business got higher and they can't go into the red either.

I have a fiduciary responsibility to not have TSP go into the "Red" as it did in 2022 and 2023 (the weather cancellations and the ranch fire destroyed $34,000 in TSP supplies and communication equipment. And no, compensation was not and has not been forthcoming.)

 

Those of  you commenting on the rates for children, even offsite children.  TSP has very few children attend due to the simple fact  that school is still in its last 6, 9 or 12th week. And the TEA of Texas stopped allowing students to take off for TSP with an excused absence years ago.

 

TSP and Prude ranch cannot control inflation. Both businesses have to react to it and make adjustments.

 

So now that I have raised everyone's blood pressure!

Let the flame wars begin! lol

I don't get on the forums and when I do I just read and not comment.  But after weeks of very little sleep to get the website working...I am suffering a lack of filtering. My filters are depleated.

And I am on a bit of a tear.

Forgive me for being redundant for the majority of this post. I don't have time to edit, reword, exorcise the demons so to speak.
 

 

Keep checking the website.  Content is changing and the site is getting closer to opening. Volunteers get first dibs and then the general attendees.

 

If you want to get in early and have a better shot at getting your preferred accommodation reach out to me.

 

I hope that I have not broken any posting rules.

 

And I do not and it is not my intent to offend anyone on this forum.

 

But rather than have this build a head of steam, I fellt it was time to open up the doors a bit and let "Lucy" Do some explaining!"

It is not my intention to market the star party. It is my intent to clear up any misunderstanding others have about the pricing and to justify why TSP had to increase fees and the same for Prude.

 

FYI don't call Prude to make a reservation or to pay for accommodations, they will punt you back to TSP. The agreement for TSP to collect the ranch's lodging fees is contractural between both entities.

It makes it simpler and less frustrating for all. TSP is not uplifting Prude's rates. I am going to pull the PayPal percentage fee attributed to the Prude lodging to get that part of the PayPal back to TSP.

 

TSP wants the TSP star party to be the best time you can have.

 

Everything we do is for you the TSP attendee.

 

And for you who do volunteer.  I luv ya.  TSP would not function. Would not exist if  you did not volunteer. If we had to pay worker bees and minions, The TSP registration fee would be over $800 per person.  I appreciate you volunteers even more. 

 

Gotta run. Have to mow the  yard.   sigh!

 

Have a great rest of your weekend.

rgds

Karl Baltz

Edited by Karl_B, 20 October 2024 - 10:58 AM.

[Joe F Gafford]

Thanks, Karl for your response. Thanks for clearing up the new policies on registration and costs. 

 

Yes, everything has gone up in price! The TSP event is on a guest ranch with their own personnel that have to be paid would be more expensive. Other star parties venues are owned by another party that are not on the venue grounds when the venue is used and the facilities and volunteers have to be brought in, which lower costs. Other star parties are on "primitive" land and the portable facilities have to be rented out and to have volunteers run the event. Most of these do not have field power as TSP, WSP (now limited), Chiefland and Okie-Tex have. I've been to these and I volunteer for Okie-Tex with their field electrical setup and we volunteers still have to pay for the meals on the setup days before opening. I also did repairs to the TSP upper field power more than a few times from 1991 to 2007 when the setup people were nowhere to be seen. Usually a short from smashed boxes caused by vehicles running over them. 

 

Joe

[Keith Rivich]

Thanks Karl,

 

For me it was the sticker shock of seeing the pricing now as to what it was two years ago. Looking at the Ranch's site they are asking $129 per night for the hotel rooms. TSP asking $167 with meals included is definitely inline with the Ranch's non TSP price structure. Last time I stayed non-TSP rooms were $45 per night. And that wasn't all that long ago! 

 

I'm off the fence now. The wife and I will be going. Looking forward to seeing everyone!