114 replies to this topic

[Tempus]

Thanks for the breakdown Karl. Still a no go for us. 90 bucks a night for a tent space for two people with no meals and no electric draw isn't a deal. I can do better over at the state park. 2400 bucks for a cabin (that on last visit came with complimentary frogs living the the sink drain) and meals is still to much. Lets go with the cabin at 2400 for the week. At the Butterfield (where we've stayed in the past) it's 155/night. Even with the $600 event fee (two people), that totals about $1700 for the week. I'm pretty certain we can eat for far less than the remaining $700 dollars. In 2018 we had crappy chicken 4 times on one week that we even have to self serve and self bus. Sorry, that little piece of chicken with a slice of jack cheese wasn't worth the 20 bucks a plate. We've found essentially zero of the daytime talks were of interest to us anymore and the evening talks have started to fade a bit as well. Too much focus on imaging.

 

The skies aren't as dark as they used to be and all the glow from the growing mass of imagers isn't helping. Nope, this just isn't a value destination anymore for us at these rates.  

 

And to be clear, I come down in a 9 year old car and have a $600 dob so I'm not contributing much to the 3-4 million dollars on the field.

Edited by Tempus, 20 October 2024 - 03:50 PM.

[Retsub]

#24 Thanks to you Joe and many others for your years of behind the scenes of the workings of a Star Party for many years. Good volunteer help is hard to come by causing more work to be done so things are ready to go when things start and keeping them running during and after it’s over. Good luck getting more help in the future. 

[lphilpot]

Just one crotchety old guy's take on it (which I fully understand may / will be different from others)

 

I've been attending TSP since 1989 and ~20 years ago I was fully "into" all the extras TSP offered. I can understand their attraction. Over the years I've changed, no doubt, and so have my preferences. So at this point, I go to TSP / west Texas for the location -- both at night and in the daytime. I'm interested in landscape photography as well as astronomy and although they rarely cooperate I still try to do both when I head to TSP. But that's just me.

 

So, purely for me at this point in time, I would be happy with:

• A viable observing site in terms of horizons, dark skies, control of local lighting, etc.
• Lodging
• Meals (maybe, but admittedly that's a major convenience)
• Power on the field is a nice convenience but I can personally work without it. I understand it's a major effort, my view doesn't discount that.

What could I personally do without? Well... again, this is just my preference and is in no way an indictment nor criticism against anyone nor the efforts they make. I know others will feel very differently, so take it for what it's worth. I'd still be happy with:

• No programs
• No observing lists (although I probably would miss them since I've done more than a few of Larry's and John's lists)
• No vendors (I'm not currently buying gear nor do I plan to)
• No prizes (what's the chance??)
• No sessions
• No speakers (my old bones don't like sitting in a metal chair that long)

At the risk of be overly repetitive repetitive ... I'm not at all dismissing the folks nor the work that makes TSP happen. But I personally come to TSP to observe what I find interesting, see friends, relax and enjoy west Texas in a larger sense -- or not, if I choose, know what I mean? A couple of decades ago I was much more heavily into all the above, but over the years I've drifted away from most of that. Others have not, of course.

 

No, I'm not even a minor contributor to the millions of dollars on the field, as it were. Yes, I can afford to come but my priorities have changed and it's difficult for me to see TSP as a positive cost-benefit proposition now. Obviously lots of others are in a different place. I certainly hope everyone has a great time.

 

Thanks.

[Bob W4]

After reading the thread, the TSP sounds like a calculated rip-off to me.  Especially, when you could go a bit further south to the Terlingua, Texas area and camp for way less cost.  You will not see me at thr TSP.

[rprice]

Just one crotchety old guy's take on it (which I fully understand may / will be different from others)

 

I've been attending TSP since 1989 and ~20 years ago I was fully "into" all the extras TSP offered. I can understand their attraction. Over the years I've changed, no doubt, and so have my preferences. So at this point, I go to TSP / west Texas for the location -- both at night and in the daytime. I'm interested in landscape photography as well as astronomy and although they rarely cooperate I still try to do both when I head to TSP. But that's just me.

 

So, purely for me at this point in time, I would be happy with:

• A viable observing site in terms of horizons, dark skies, control of local lighting, etc.
• Lodging
• Meals (maybe, but admittedly that's a major convenience)
• Power on the field is a nice convenience but I can personally work without it. I understand it's a major effort, my view doesn't discount that.

What could I personally do without? Well... again, this is just my preference and is in no way an indictment nor criticism against anyone nor the efforts they make. I know others will feel very differently, so take it for what it's worth. I'd still be happy with:

• No programs
• No observing lists (although I probably would miss them since I've done more than a few of Larry's and John's lists)
• No vendors (I'm not currently buying gear nor do I plan to)
• No prizes (what's the chance??)
• No sessions
• No speakers (my old bones don't like sitting in a metal chair that long)

At the risk of be overly repetitive repetitive ... I'm not at all dismissing the folks nor the work that makes TSP happen. But I personally come to TSP to observe what I find interesting, see friends, relax and enjoy west Texas in a larger sense -- or not, if I choose, know what I mean? A couple of decades ago I was much more heavily into all the above, but over the years I've drifted away from most of that. Others have not, of course.

 

No, I'm not even a minor contributor to the millions of dollars on the field, as it were. Yes, I can afford to come but my priorities have changed and it's difficult for me to see TSP as a positive cost-benefit proposition now. Obviously lots of others are in a different place. I certainly hope everyone has a great time.

 

Thanks.

lphilpot,

 

Thanks for such an honest and reasonable post. Like you, I have been going to TSP for a long time, having attended the first TSP in 1979 at Davis Mountains State Park and many TSPs over the years. I can say that I am in the same place as you with regard to what I need and what I can do without. And most importantly I want a relaxing, easy going experience.

 

I have been hoping over the last 4 years or so that TSP, Inc. would lighten up and return to a more reasonable approach to running things. But not to be. While I found Karl's post beyond incredible in its length, demeanor and hubris, it was useful in making my decision to scratch TSP off my list for good very easy.

[DeanS]

I just made reservations at the state park for the week.  Will do my observing from there and socialize during the day with friends off site.   Then head to big bend later on.  Hate to miss all the goat heads this year

Edited by DeanS, 16 November 2024 - 08:19 PM.

[Paul Romero]

I would like to try TSP. Flying into Midland, I would only have to drive 3-4 hours, and bringing with me my tent, star tracking astrophotography setup, and binos , one would think I would suffer through the week as a “tough cowboy”. Aren’t there going to be showers, catered meals, and mild temperatures?

Clear Skies,

Paul

[skyward_eyes]

Karl was great to work with for the TSP Eclipse Event this past April. 

 

However, in regards to TSP 2025. Due to its close proximity to NEAF, Sky-Watcher will not be attending this year either. 

[Tempus]

I would like to try TSP. Flying into Midland, I would only have to drive 3-4 hours, and bringing with me my tent, star tracking astrophotography setup, and binos , one would think I would suffer through the week as a “tough cowboy”. Aren’t there going to be showers, catered meals, and mild temperatures?

Clear Skies,

Paul

Paul, there are showers available and you can buy individual meals but check out the info because they usually require you to buy the meal in advance and if I remember correctly, that doesn't mean immediately before the meal. As for mild temps, I've been there with frost starting to form shortly after midnight to days with high temps of 100. I'm not sure if that range of possibilities meets your definition of mild. I do know most tent campers tend to have problems sleeping in due to sunlight and rising morning temps.

[Paul Romero]

Hi Tempus!

I’ll wait and see how my trip to the WSP goes and decide after that. I just bought a 3-season tent which has a “rain fly”…maybe it could be a sun filter, too!

Clear Skies,

Paul

[Napp]

Hi Tempus!

I’ll wait and see how my trip to the WSP goes and decide after that. I just bought a 3-season tent which has a “rain fly”…maybe it could be a sun filter, too!

Clear Skies,

Paul

You'll find the rain fly extremely valuable for keeping the temperature lower in your tent in the daytime.

[Tempus]

Hi Tempus!

I’ll wait and see how my trip to the WSP goes and decide after that. I just bought a 3-season tent which has a “rain fly”…maybe it could be a sun filter, too!

Clear Skies,

Paul

Also, don't for get you'll need really big tent stakes. Those little ones that come with the tent will last about 10 minutes in the wind on the ranch, especially if you get in the way of one of their famous dust devils.

[lphilpot]

Those little ones that come with the tent will be curled up on the surface, dead.   They'll never go in.

 

I prefer the big foot-long nail-style pegs (steel, not aluminum). I've made super-strong pegs from big nails, a fender washer and an S-hook -- All available at the hardware store. Drill a small hole in the fender washer, run the S-hook through it, clamp both ends closed with pliers and slide it up under the nail head. Super strong and there's no plastic head to break.

Edited by lphilpot, 23 November 2024 - 03:28 PM.

[Paul Romero]

Hi all, Great idea about the concrete “nail” stake. It looks like I will be borrowing someone’s hammer, as I would be flying in, no baggage. Luckily my “deal” tent had the “Pro” model, which I splurged and paid $5 more for!

Clear Skies,

Paul

[rcdk]

 

Pretty rich, when ya consider that there is probably 3 to 4+ million dollars worth of gear brought to TSP 

You have money and TSP, Inc. wants it.  It's not about astronomy anymore.  

 

The insane thing to me is the hammering they are putting on families at a time when these sorts of hobbies are dying because young people are losing interest.  

[Keith Rivich]

Hi all, Great idea about the concrete “nail” stake. It looks like I will be borrowing someone’s hammer, as I would be flying in, no baggage. Luckily my “deal” tent had the “Pro” model, which I splurged and paid $5 more for!

Clear Skies,

Paul

I've been using 6" long lag screws for the last few years. Put them in and take them out with an battery impact. Works great. 

Edited by Keith Rivich, 27 November 2024 - 09:18 AM.

[DantheSpaceMan]

You have money and TSP, Inc. wants it.  It's not about astronomy anymore.  

 

The insane thing to me is the hammering they are putting on families at a time when these sorts of hobbies are dying because young people are losing interest.  

That's a strong opinon, for sure, but while its true that the cost of star parties has gone up, so have the prices of beach trips and other vacations, perhaps except Cruise ships to some extent due to the petri dish issue, but even flights add on to the cost. 

 

I've never been to TSP, looking at going. I do value having meals made, it's such a luxury to not have to worry about cooking/cleaning near setup time in the evening, it's a nice perk. The cost and fees to put on a good show is well, worth it to many. And many family events can be done at less remote areas and perhaps at cheaper prices at different star party events. Not every star party has to be a family affair...and at the end of the day, it is 100% about looking up at a Bortle 2 dark sky on a clear night, you rarely forget those moments. 

[kmeyer]

I would like to try TSP. Flying into Midland, I would only have to drive 3-4 hours, and bringing with me my tent, star tracking astrophotography setup, and binos , one would think I would suffer through the week as a “tough cowboy”. Aren’t there going to be showers, catered meals, and mild temperatures?

Clear Skies,

Paul

Consider a bunkhouse instead of living on the observing field.  Between the dust, wind, daytime heat, nighttime cold, and occasional downpour it can be brutal.  The difference in cost between camping + meals vs. bunkhouse (which includes meals) is less than a couple hundred $ and well worth it for a dry protected place to rest and keep your stuff clean and dry.  I camped my first couple years and that was enough.

[Retsub]

PRUDE RANCH AND TSP HAVE SPOKEN

 

 My late wife and I have attended TSP at the ranch for quite a few years.  I have read all the posts about the Prude Ranch and have known many of the posters. Many of you have a valid reason and opinions about how TSP should operate. I don't think I have read anything about those that don't like the way TSP operates and have gone outside it and contacting the Ranch about having another group star party more to your liking some other month but maybe I missed it. If so, you probably will be in for a surprise at that cost to do it your way.  No doubt the Ranch has had to make changes to be able to survive in our economy the way it is now. Who else hasn't had undesirable changes in their life too. Some will agree that the sky as we see it is a great attraction or salesman for us to look up to and most start at the beginning somehow with equipment but very soon their "cup runneth over" and soon somehow acquire more and more equipment and go to darker areas to use it as a individual or in groups like TSP at the Ranch but for many its "Champagne taste on a beer budget" and the sky goes deeper than we can see it requiring more equipment to take advantage of it.Remember too the price you paid to use this forum and would you pay more as an example to use it ? Keep in touch. 

Edited by Retsub, 08 December 2024 - 05:52 PM.

[Keith Rivich]

Consider a bunkhouse instead of living on the observing field.  Between the dust, wind, daytime heat, nighttime cold, and occasional downpour it can be brutal.  The difference in cost between camping + meals vs. bunkhouse (which includes meals) is less than a couple hundred $ and well worth it for a dry protected place to rest and keep your stuff clean and dry.  I camped my first couple years and that was enough.

Agreed. There are a few spots on the middle field that one can set up a tent and be in decent shade well into the morning, but they are prized spots and usually snatched up early by those that know. The lower field has good camping spots but one has to protect themselves from goat head stickers. 

 

I spent the first 5 years or so in a bunkhouse (Pandora's Box) and it worked out well, except for dealing with the occasional early riser that for some reason couldn't be quiet. 

[rsalva1]

Agreed. There are a few spots on the middle field that one can set up a tent and be in decent shade well into the morning, but they are prized spots and usually snatched up early by those that know. The lower field has good camping spots but one has to protect themselves from goat head stickers. 

 

I spent the first 5 years or so in a bunkhouse (Pandora's Box) and it worked out well, except for dealing with the occasional early riser that for some reason couldn't be quiet. 

The bunk house is the way to go, and best to have earplugs. You will have the early risers, and snorers like me...

[rcdk]

PRUDE RANCH AND TSP HAVE SPOKEN

 

 ...

I don't think I have read anything about those that don't like the way TSP operates and have gone outside it and contacting the Ranch about having another group star party more to your liking some other month but maybe I missed it. If so, you probably will be in for a surprise at that cost to do it your way. 

...

It has gone a bit beyond that, the Ranch has already conducted a Star Party independently two or three times the last four years, including last year.  

[BobInTexas]

Just booked an RV site. Looking forward to being back under the dark west Texas skies. 

[rsalva1]

I don’t see a deadline on the sign up. I’ll probably wait until probability of clear skies. 

[baker_belays]

TSP is legendary, this pricing model is not. My entire fee for the full time at okietex, 165, would get me 3 nights of camping at TSP.

 

I love what you guys do, I love what you guys have built, but the pricing is just not there for me. It's really not even close.