53 replies to this topic

[The Ardent]

I picked up this scope yesterday thinking it would be interesting to view Jupiter and Saturn the next few months . Unfortunately it’s too big to move easily and it’s in poor shape. I’m posting this simply for informational purposes. 
 

To begin with please see this thread 

https://www.cloudyni...-12-cassegrain/
 

The tube is 43” long and 14” diameter. The focuser is larger than 2”. Instead of a spider the secondary holder is a figure-8 . There is a sliding weight rail on the bottom of the tube , the weight is missing. 

The long guide scope is 3” aperture. No markings. Has an unusual opening on the dew cap. 
 

There is no provision to easily add a modern dovetail. I won’t be able to mount it to  evaluate the optics . It rode an a vintage heavy eq mount that I was unable to move. 

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[The Ardent]

More pics 

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[The Ardent]

Last pics 

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[Scott in NC]

Very cool, Ray!  I’ve never seen a “spider” like that before.

 

This would be a wonderful project for someone with the skills and time to restore it. I’d love to see this turned back into a usable scope. Please keep us posted.

[Mr Magoo]

Do you have any pictures of the mount?

[rachnoman]

There are too many things wrong with it. Just dump it.

[Keith Rivich]

Cool. The 36" at the George Observatory is a Tinsley (Boller and Chiven's knock off), circa 1969. Fine instrument! 

 

[TOMDEY]

Nice! Yep, one of those 12-inchers was donated to our club decades ago, a charming ~old school~ beast. The cast metal parts reflected the old Russel Porter philosophy of build it like a tank. We'd always look at that creative figure 8 Secondary Mirror Support and smile. No pesky traditional diffraction spikes, that's for sure. But a very significant total integrated diffraction signature in the impulse response. The optics should be very good wavefront, Pyrex, and full-thickness.

 

This is most sensibly a restoration scope project, half for the heritage and fun to use for visual when done. It's quite possible to improve the performance of the mount and mechanicals without spoiling the steampunk motif. I had a big old Cave Astrola and amended a large Byers drive to it.

 

If one's not seriously/actively into restorations --- such acquisitions typically resume their ~boat anchor in the garage~ status for yet another decade or two.     Tom

 

What is a boat anchor slang?
In amateur radio and computing, a boat anchor or boatanchor is something obsolete, useless, and cumbersome – so-called because metaphorically its only productive use is to be thrown into the water as a boat mooring. Terms such as brick, doorstop, and paperweight are similar. ~

Edited by TOMDEY, 13 August 2024 - 11:03 PM.

[apfever]

I used to have one of those. Jeffrey (CN icomet) did some excellent mods and restoration work on it. The last I heard it ended up in Florida. I have a pdf of the original manual that I can email. PM me for email stuff.  I also should have some detailed schematics of the OTA on my comp if I can find them. I might have blipped the schematics when I sold it.  Here's the front page of the manual, it's 14 pages total in pdf.

I don't think yours has the original focuser.

 

Edit:  I just found a few pdf of this scope. One is specifically for the original mount drive (7 watts). I can email them all.

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Edited by apfever, 14 August 2024 - 12:08 AM.

[Bomber Bob]

Wow!!   Congratulations on your rare find!   I'm a Tinsley Fan from just one of their old scopes.  If I had a ROR observatory, I'd enjoy restoring your Beast - and using it, too.

 

My Tinsley 6" F20 Cass is too heavy for a dovetail.  I found hinged aluminum rings for it, and bolt these directly to either its matching Tinsley EQ, or to a Meade StarFinder (made for their 8" Newtonians):

 

 

 

 

I evaluated the optics before I got into the restoration.  My Tinsley was an empty shell -- the original mirror set was lost.  But I lucked-out, as another CNer had a set that fit the OTA.  Unknown maker, but it threw up good enough images to have Majestic recoat them.  As pictured, it's an excellent Cass - views compete with my Takahashi FC-100.

 

Hope that your Tinsley has great mirrors!

Edited by Bomber Bob, 14 August 2024 - 10:38 AM.

[Scott in NC]

Yours is beautiful, Bob!

[Bomber Bob]

Thanks!  My restoration has been mostly the OTA.  The Tinsley EQ is a 240# behemoth - I'd have to have a helper, or rig up some rope & pulley system to separate the two axes - just to grease the ring of ball bearings on the RA "disk" assembly - much less sand & repaint the castings.

 

I can imagine restoring this 12" Tinsley - a lot of work!  But... it's worth it.

[RichA]

Nice! Yep, one of those 12-inchers was donated to our club decades ago, a charming ~old school~ beast. The cast metal parts reflected the old Russel Porter philosophy of build it like a tank. We'd always look at that creative figure 8 Secondary Mirror Support and smile. No pesky traditional diffraction spikes, that's for sure. But a very significant total integrated diffraction signature in the impulse response. The optics should be very good wavefront, Pyrex, and full-thickness.

 

This is most sensibly a restoration scope project, half for the heritage and fun to use for visual when done. It's quite possible to improve the performance of the mount and mechanicals without spoiling the steampunk motif. I had a big old Cave Astrola and amended a large Byers drive to it.

 

If one's not seriously/actively into restorations --- such acquisitions typically resume their ~boat anchor in the garage~ status for yet another decade or two.     Tom

 

What is a boat anchor slang?
In amateur radio and computing, a boat anchor or boatanchor is something obsolete, useless, and cumbersome – so-called because metaphorically its only productive use is to be thrown into the water as a boat mooring. Terms such as brick, doorstop, and paperweight are similar. ~

thousands of articles like this end up in the hands of people not-interested all the time, most of the sellers on Ebay also are surplus dealers, antique dealers who acquire them through estate sales. But honestly, how many dedicated amateurs even would be willing to use a big, heavy, cumbersome scope when there are modern choices more easily handled.  For example, how many people drag out their 4 inch Unitrons when a nice 102mm f7 contemporary ED/apo is at hand?   The only real solution is an observatory, or the ability to move the scope easily.

[Kitfox]

I picked up this scope yesterday thinking it would be interesting to view Jupiter and Saturn the next few months . Unfortunately it’s too big to move easily and it’s in poor shape. I’m posting this simply for informational purposes. 
 

To begin with please see this thread 

https://www.cloudyni...-12-cassegrain/
 

The tube is 43” long and 14” diameter. The focuser is larger than 2”. Instead of a spider the secondary holder is a figure-8 . There is a sliding weight rail on the bottom of the tube , the weight is missing. 

The long guide scope is 3” aperture. No markings. Has an unusual opening on the dew cap. 
 

There is no provision to easily add a modern dovetail. I won’t be able to mount it to  evaluate the optics . It rode an a vintage heavy eq mount that I was unable to move. 

 

 

Did you get any photos of the mount?  Is in still in situ or junked?  This project has me quite intrigued, especially since there is only one state line between us...

[TOMDEY]

thousands of articles like this end up in the hands of people not-interested all the time, most of the sellers on Ebay also are surplus dealers, antique dealers who acquire them through estate sales. But honestly, how many dedicated amateurs even would be willing to use a big, heavy, cumbersome scope when there are modern choices more easily handled.  For example, how many people drag out their 4 inch Unitrons when a nice 102mm f7 contemporary ED/apo is at hand?   The only real solution is an observatory, or the ability to move the scope easily.

Yes, ain't that the truth, sort of a "be careful what you wish for" situation. I've built a few observatories from fairly small to medium to large. With an instrument like this I would build a dome around it and execute ambitious $$$ upgrades for performance. I actually did similar with my old 12.5-inch Cave Astrola and enjoyed it for decades that way, before ~giving~ it to a seriously interested collector (for a mere $2K) who would become the 4th owner.

 

One common thread here is where someone acquires a massive, dignified but crusty old scope free or cheap, and only then considers "now what?!" Reality sets in... and a decade or two later the spouse pressures them into freeing up the garage bay for --- the car.

 

“Be careful what you wish for” is an idiom that advises people to consider what they say before expressing a desire for something. It can also imply that they may not actually want what they say they do. For example, someone might say, “You think having twins would be fun?” and you might respond, “Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it”.

 

The full saying, “Be careful what you wish for, lest it come true,” comes from Aesop's Fables, a well-known collection of morality tales. Some say that the cautionary tale of this saying is applicable in many areas of life, such as when someone wishes for something and then finds that the reality doesn't match their expectations. ~

 

Here's that honorable old Astrola >>>    Tom

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[DAVIDG]

 Here is a picture of the 24" Tinsley at Mt Cuba Observatory. It is a beast but I have kept it running well.  I know them well so happy to answer any questions on yours.

 

                                         - Dave 

 

Edited by DAVIDG, 16 August 2024 - 05:00 PM.

[The Ardent]

The mount is an ASKO Asahiseko which I believe was imported by RVR Optical in the 1970’s. Beautiful mount but too heavy for me to move. The power cord and hand box are missing. The black handles lock the axes. Adjusting the balance is a mystery since there are no external counterweights. 
 

I really love the look and feel of it. 

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[Kitfox]

Well, I met Ray yesterday and took this project off of his hands...wow, this is big, heavy monster.  It literally filled the back seat of my suv.  Kind of funny, had to buckle all three back seat seat belts to get the bell to stop; this thing pretended to be three people!  Even my LZOS 175 in a ScopeGuard case doesn't do that!

 

As this will be a huge project, I want to at least find out how good this thing is optically before I invest too much time into it.  So my plan is to open it up and clean the mirrors and get all the dust off and the mechanics functioning, then get her up on a mount.  My plan is either an AP1200 or a Losmandy Titan initially, but I need to find a way to attach it.  Is there anyone out there who makes rings for a scope this large. preferably with wide bases to attach to Takahashi-style plates in lieu of dovetails, or at least a long dovetail for the 16" saddle on the AP 1200?

 

If she has good optics, I can send them off to be coated (the coatings look decent right now, just dirty) and work on the full restoration.  I doubt I will be financially capable of a full, to-original restoration, but I would like to get this set up to be a fully-functional observatory scope if it proves worthy.  So I will be asking for lots of advice!!!

 

I used to have one of those. Jeffrey (CN icomet) did some excellent mods and restoration work on it. The last I heard it ended up in Florida. I have a pdf of the original manual that I can email. PM me for email stuff.  I also should have some detailed schematics of the OTA on my comp if I can find them. I might have blipped the schematics when I sold it.  Here's the front page of the manual, it's 14 pages total in pdf.

I don't think yours has the original focuser.

 

Edit:  I just found a few pdf of this scope. One is specifically for the original mount drive (7 watts). I can email them all.

I sent you a PM, I would love any literature you can send!!!  This goes for anyone here, pictures in situ of like models, anything that is out there!

 

Thanks, Classics family!  

Edited by Kitfox, 28 August 2024 - 10:34 AM.

[davidmcgo]

For rings, your only bet is probably Parallax:

 

http://www.parallaxi...struments.com/ 

 

Or find a local fab shop that could cut them out of 1” thick plate stock which would be expensive.

 

Dave

[RichA]

More pics 

Refractor focuser easily the most Stone-Age effort I've seen.  Truly an afterthought, i guess because the refractor was a guidescope?

[Kitfox]

Neither Ray nor I could find any identifying marks on the guidescope. And the sad focuser is locked up solid. I will star test its optics before I make any final decisions, but I’m pretty sure the main scope will get a Vixen or Nikon riding piggyback in this refractor’s place. 

[The Ardent]

I was interested in the 3” refractor as a classic standalone scope. It needs more restoration than Im capable. I’m very curious about in the actual make .
Glad to see it in good hands.

[apfever]

I might be interested in the focuser if it is going to be scrapped. The original was a monstrosity in hefty construction not to mention a 2.7" focuser.

 

Here ya go:  CN LINK

Edited by apfever, 01 September 2024 - 07:17 PM.

[Kitfox]

It is a stout focuser, and as I work it, I can tell it will be smooth once it’s been cleaned and greased. I think it will hold anything I stick in it, up to and including a spectrograph. 

 

I was interested in the 3” refractor as a classic standalone scope. It needs more restoration than Im capable. I’m very curious about in the actual make .
Glad to see it in good hands.

I’ve pulled the refractor and finder off, now I’m trying to get the mount adaptor off.  The four perimeter bolts didn’t free it, so I have to get down into the expanded-foam fill in the frame to hunt for more bolts. Whatever is there doesn’t show through on the inside of the main tube; that is some thick-wall aluminum!  The finder will be the first to get my attention if the mirrors prove good, then the 3” fract guidescope. This will be involved! 

 

I'm taking the OTA down close to Raleigh late this week or early next to see what Joe Nastasi at Parallax can dream up for this beauty (yeah, I’m starting to see beauty in the beast!). I’m excited to get it mounted up and pointed at the sky this planet season. Then maybe get the restoration into full swing when the three main planets pass opposition and before galaxy season 

[Kitfox]

I went by Parallax on the way to the Raleigh airport and picked up my rings yesterday.  Two observations, one more complex than the other...

 

1) Really nice rings, certainly up for the task of carrying the 12";

 

2) Don't ever go visit Joe Nastasi when you are in a hurry to catch a plane...

 

We talked at length about my "restoration" plan, but then he pulled out a dusty, fat plastic file.  Out of which he pulled fliers and catalogs that brought back memories of endless dreaming, drooling and begging from my youth.  Takahashi, Goto, Pentax, Nikon, Meade (including the old, original Research Grade catalogs), Dobbins, Unitron, Zeiss (the original APQ Series!!!) and others I didn't remember, but I am sure caught my eye in the 60's, 70's and 80's.  That 6" Unitron ad copy has re-etched its outline into my memory.    If I hadn't had  a flight, I might still be there!

 

A lot of you have already had exposure to Joe over the years, but if you haven't, he is a wealth of knowledge and experience in our little niche of the hobby.  And he makes rings and accessories that bring back a bygone era of beauty and quality, as well!  I will be visiting again when I don't have an appointment with American Airlines!

Edited by Kitfox, 10 September 2024 - 10:35 AM.