15 replies to this topic

[Phaaze]

Hello, 

 

I am a new beginner with little experience (I've spotted a planet before on my old reflector telescope) looking to get into Astrophotography. I've done what research I can and learned a lot (much info coming from these forums, thanks!) but I feel like I might be missing a thing or two. My overall goal is to observe and photograph DSO's like nebulas and maybe some galaxies too. 

 

I live on a farm with a Bortle Class 5 sky (measured from both light pollution maps and my own SQM) in northeastern USA. 

 

My equipment so far is:

- Skywatcher flextube 350 14 inch dobsonian (Should be delivered in the coming days)

- ZWO ASI 533MC-P  (I have a 12V AC to DC power supply too)

- Baader Hyperion Mark IV Zoom Eyepiece

- Tele Vue 35mm Panoptic

- Tele Vue 2x Image Amplifier

- Anker Solix F1200 power station to power all my gear

 

I plan on using NINA to control the telescope from my laptop, then GIMP or some other software to process pictures. I know most astrophotographers recommend not using this style of telescope, but it was the most cost effective means to get my aperture size I wanted. Plus, I saw several guides on using this to capture stunning photos.

 

My questions are as follows:

- What other equipment am I lacking? While I feel like I covered what I could, I know there are always details that guides miss that is assumed to be common knowledge.

- How will I attach the camera? All the guides I've seen were more so reviews and didn't go into the mechanics of HOW it attaches. I can't help but feel I'm missing something.

- Are there temperatures I shouldn't operate in? It gets cold in the winter here.

- Are there any additional resources I should be consulting/reading?

- Any other insight/advice?

 

Thank you very much for your time.

[Andros246]

Hello, 

 

I am a new beginner with little experience (I've spotted a planet before on my old reflector telescope) looking to get into Astrophotography. I've done what research I can and learned a lot (much info coming from these forums, thanks!) but I feel like I might be missing a thing or two. My overall goal is to observe and photograph DSO's like nebulas and maybe some galaxies too. 

 

I live on a farm with a Bortle Class 5 sky (measured from both light pollution maps and my own SQM) in northeastern USA. 

 

My equipment so far is:

- Skywatcher flextube 350 14 inch dobsonian (Should be delivered in the coming days)

- ZWO ASI 533MC-P  (I have a 12V AC to DC power supply too)

- Baader Hyperion Mark IV Zoom Eyepiece

- Tele Vue 35mm Panoptic

- Tele Vue 2x Image Amplifier

- Anker Solix F1200 power station to power all my gear

 

I plan on using NINA to control the telescope from my laptop, then GIMP or some other software to process pictures. I know most astrophotographers recommend not using this style of telescope, but it was the most cost effective means to get my aperture size I wanted. Plus, I saw several guides on using this to capture stunning photos.

 

My questions are as follows:

- What other equipment am I lacking? While I feel like I covered what I could, I know there are always details that guides miss that is assumed to be common knowledge.

- How will I attach the camera? All the guides I've seen were more so reviews and didn't go into the mechanics of HOW it attaches. I can't help but feel I'm missing something.

- Are there temperatures I shouldn't operate in? It gets cold in the winter here.

- Are there any additional resources I should be consulting/reading?

- Any other insight/advice?

 

Thank you very much for your time.

is the dob a goto? If not you're going to be in a impossible spot trying to take pictures.

Edited by Andros246, 14 August 2024 - 10:48 AM.

[Phaaze]

is the dob a goto? If not you're going to be in a impossible spot trying to take pictures.

Yes, it is the Goto version. I've read people prefer using NINA to control the telescope.

[Andros246]

Yes, it is the Goto version. I've read people prefer using NINA to control the telescope.

I've seen lots of stunning images taken with goto dobs recently and even more the past year.

 

It aint easy but good luck.

[WadeH237]

Hi Phaaze, and welcome to Cloudy Nights!

 

I'm really sorry to have to say this, but you have just about zero chance of success with that system.  I have 25 years of imaging experience, and even with the skills that I've acquired over the years, I would not spend any time trying to make it work.  It just won't.  The field of view will be like looking through a soda straw, and it cannot track the sky.  Even it's a goto scope, the field will rotate, preventing exposures more than a few seconds.

 

You've done the astronomy equivalent of buying a sports car with the intent of rock crawling with the Jeeps.

 

The only piece of gear that you have that will work is the camera.  You will need to buy an equatorial mount, and a much, much smaller telescope.  I would strongly suggest nothing bigger than an 80mm F/6 refractor.  You will also need autoguiding gear.

 

On the other hand, you have a very nice visual system.

 

If you want to do both visual and deep sky imaging, the best way to do it, from both a cost perspective and technical perspective, is to buy two separate systems.  You've done a good job with the visual part, but you will need to buy different gear for imaging.  The problem is that the things that make a reasonable imaging system are in direct conflict with the things that make a good visual system.  Avoiding this pitfall is exactly why experienced astrophotographers make the recommendations that they do.  It's not to hold you back, it's to help you succeed.

 

I'll leave it to others to chime in with their opinions and gear suggestions.

[kathyastro]

I wish you had asked first, before buying stuff.  A 14" dob is great for visual use, but it will cause you headaches for DSO astrophotography.  It is going to make things harder for you.  But you've got it, and if you are like most of us, your budget is blown, so you are asking how to get it to work for you.

 

The big problem will be the dob (alt-az) mount.  Even with the best tracking in the world, you will be limited to exposures of about 30 seconds max, because of field rotation.  At the long focal length of that scope, you should be using guiding.  But it is hard to guide an alt-az mount, and you don't have a guider anyway.  Without it, you should probably cut down the exposure time even more: 10-15 seconds, maybe.

 

The camera will have a T-thread front flange.  Your focuser might have a T-thread adapter built in, but most likely it doesn't.  So you will need a T-adapter with threads matching the camera's threads.  There are many kinds of T-adapters, but the one you want will fit a 2" Newtonian focuser.  With the adapter, you will thread it onto the front of the camera, then drop it into the focuser just like it was an eyepiece.

 

The main piece of equipment you are lacking is an equatorial mount.

 

Worry about hot summer temperatures more than cold winter temperatures.  You have a cooled camera, but the cooler can only dump so much heat.  I read that that camera has a delta-T (how much below air temperature you can operate it) of 35 degrees Celsius.  So if you set it for -10C, you can't run it in warmer temperatures than +25C, and that is running the cooler flat-out.

 

Good luck.

Edited by kathyastro, 14 August 2024 - 11:02 AM.

[gsaramet]

My questions are as follows:

- What other equipment am I lacking? While I feel like I covered what I could, I know there are always details that guides miss that is assumed to be common knowledge.

- How will I attach the camera? All the guides I've seen were more so reviews and didn't go into the mechanics of HOW it attaches. I can't help but feel I'm missing something.

- Are there temperatures I shouldn't operate in? It gets cold in the winter here.

- Are there any additional resources I should be consulting/reading?

- Any other insight/advice?

 

Thank you very much for your time.

A newton needs a coma corrector for astrophotography, and it's not on your list. Such a CC comes with a back space requirement. You use spacers to screw the camera to the CC. The rings in the camera's packaging will probably do it. You have the details and calculations in camera's user's manual.

You'll need to collimate the tube. Not necessarily easy, especially without tools.

You'll need at least a Bahtinov mask for good focus. You can print one on cardboard, cut it with an utility knife and use it. 

 

You should have to read smiller's threads and guide.

 

Other insights: if you are a very persistent, patient and quick-learning person, it's gonna be extraordinarily difficult. If not, close to impossible. Sorry  

You already got the drill from the other responders: equatorial mount, small refractor, autoguiding.

[vtornado]

You could return the camera, use your fine big dob visually and get a see-star.

I can take pictures and observe at the same time.

Edited by vtornado, 14 August 2024 - 11:34 AM.

[Oort Cloud]

You'll want to talk to Smiller (Steven). I'm sure he'll be by soon enough to chime in. He is, I'd say, CN's foremost authority on DSO imaging with a go-to dob. He has produced some absolutely stunning images with his, which you can probably see by visiting his gallery here at CN.

Welcome to the hobby, and clear skies!

P.S.: Moving forward, it is better to ask the questions before making purchases, rather than after. Your learning experience would have been much easier if you were learning with a short refractor on an equatorial mount.

Edited by Oort Cloud, 14 August 2024 - 11:49 AM.

[AstroApe]

I'd sell the camera and spend the next few years learning the sky with that excellent visual setup you've got. I observe from my Bortle 4 (SQM readings around 21mpsas) farm with a verify of scopes up to a 12" Dob, so pretty similar to what you'd see under your skies with a 14". There's literally a lifetime of observing that can be done with a scope that size.

Once I was ready for AP, I'd buy a GEM mount and short focal length refractor (also a great visual instrument!).... but that's just me. Good luck getting your system up and going, and don't give up before giving it a go. Just be sure to manage expectations.

[Phaaze]

Thank you all for the warm welcome and advice. This is all part of a much larger project I am working on, and I partially knew this would receive a lukewarm response. Still, I understand the advice against this initiative but the engineer in me relishes a challenge. 

 

 

I wish you had asked first, before buying stuff.  A 14" dob is great for visual use, but it will cause you headaches for DSO astrophotography.  It is going to make things harder for you.  But you've got it, and if you are like most of us, your budget is blown, so you are asking how to get it to work for you.

 

The big problem will be the dob (alt-az) mount.  Even with the best tracking in the world, you will be limited to exposures of about 30 seconds max, because of field rotation.  At the long focal length of that scope, you should be using guiding.  But it is hard to guide an alt-az mount, and you don't have a guider anyway.  Without it, you should probably cut down the exposure time even more: 10-15 seconds, maybe.

 

The camera will have a T-thread front flange.  Your focuser might have a T-thread adapter built in, but most likely it doesn't.  So you will need a T-adapter with threads matching the camera's threads.  There are many kinds of T-adapters, but the one you want will fit a 2" Newtonian focuser.  With the adapter, you will thread it onto the front of the camera, then drop it into the focuser just like it was an eyepiece.

 

The main piece of equipment you are lacking is an equatorial mount.

 

Worry about hot summer temperatures more than cold winter temperatures.  You have a cooled camera, but the cooler can only dump so much heat.  I read that that camera has a delta-T (how much below air temperature you can operate it) of 35 degrees Celsius.  So if you set it for -10C, you can't run it in warmer temperatures than +25C, and that is running the cooler flat-out.

 

Good luck.

Thanks for the info on T Adaptors. The telescope arrived late today so tomorrow time permitting I'll see if my focuser has the threads or if I need to buy one. Knew I was missing the mechanism on how camera attached so again thank you for the info and advice. So far I'm looking at a sub 10 second exposure time for all I'm concerned about, but I've read some interesting experiments with using NINA to plate solve for near exact field correction for long exposures so I'll have to dabble in that when I get things rolling. Understood on the temperatures as well. Thanks once more.

 

 

A newton needs a coma corrector for astrophotography, and it's not on your list. Such a CC comes with a back space requirement. You use spacers to screw the camera to the CC. The rings in the camera's packaging will probably do it. You have the details and calculations in camera's user's manual.

You'll need to collimate the tube. Not necessarily easy, especially without tools.

You'll need at least a Bahtinov mask for good focus. You can print one on cardboard, cut it with an utility knife and use it. 

 

You should have to read smiller's threads and guide.

 

Other insights: if you are a very persistent, patient and quick-learning person, it's gonna be extraordinarily difficult. If not, close to impossible. Sorry

You already got the drill from the other responders: equatorial mount, small refractor, autoguiding.

Thanks for the info, I'll add those items to my list to get and check out the mentioned guides. I'd like to think I'm that type of person but I don't want to speak before I get my system up and running lol.

[imtl]

Well, the one piece that you're lacking is experience and that should not be underestimated.

Also, you wrote you would like to observe and image nebulae and maybe some galaxies. You never wrote you want to take GOOD images of those. The first you can do, the later you'll face a serious challenge.

If it's doable? To some extent, yes. Will you achieve it? Who knows. Good luck in any case.

[Notdarkenough]

The term “DSOs“ is vague and unhelpful. You mention nebulae and galaxies, but there is no commonalty between the 2 targets. Nebulae are (almost) always big targets, wide and bright. These type of targets are excellent in short focal length refractors. Incidentally, short focal length refractors are the easiest tool with which to learn.

 

I am a newish imager and I use a $300 SvBony 503 80ED for nebulae. Great, cheap, small scope. Galaxies on the other hand are (almost) all very small. You need something with more focal length to images these targets. I use an 8“ EdgeHD SCT. And, as I mentioned, getting good images with that OTA is much harder.

 

Robesonian isn't a OTA design, it is a mount design. Imaging with a Newtonian OTA is done, but with EQ mounts. Sure you can do whatever with whatever, but a big Newt on an Alt/Az Dob platform isn't isn't going to provide the images you want after all the effort.

 

My recommendation is to first decide what it is you want to take images of, then look for a pathway to start with the least expense and effort. If you like it at $1500 - a reasonable price for a small refractor, mount, astro cam, guide scope, guide cam, cables, acquisition computer and a renter license for some postprocessing software. As APers will readily admit, learning the postprocessing process is much more time consuming than simple data acquisition. Yes, all these posts are about data acquisition, the easiest part of AP. I am sure as an engineer you understand about building with the wrong foundation, and I am sure you could figure it out. But then you still have an inferior tool going forward, to what end? Just my two cents. 

[Oort Cloud]

The term “DSOs“ is vague and unhelpful. You mention nebulae and galaxies, but there is no commonalty between the 2 targets. Nebulae are (almost) always big targets, wide and bright. These type of targets are excellent in short focal length refractors. Incidentally, short focal length refractors are the easiest tool with which to learn.

I am a newish imager and I use a $300 SvBony 503 80ED for nebulae. Great, cheap, small scope. Galaxies on the other hand are (almost) all very small. You need something with more focal length to images these targets. I use an 8“ EdgeHD SCT. And, as I mentioned, getting good images with that OTA is much harder.

Robesonian isn't a OTA design, it is a mount design. Imaging with a Newtonian OTA is done, but with EQ mounts. Sure you can do whatever with whatever, but a big Newt on an Alt/Az Dob platform isn't isn't going to provide the images you want after all the effort.

My recommendation is to first decide what it is you want to take images of, then look for a pathway to start with the least expense and effort. If you like it at $1500 - a reasonable price for a small refractor, mount, astro cam, guide scope, guide cam, cables, acquisition computer and a renter license for some postprocessing software. As APers will readily admit, learning the postprocessing process is much more time consuming than simple data acquisition. Yes, all these posts are about data acquisition, the easiest part of AP. I am sure as an engineer you understand about building with the wrong foundation, and I am sure you could figure it out. But then you still have an inferior tool going forward, to what end? Just my two cents.

Inferior?

I guess you haven't seen any of Steven's (Smiller) go-to dob acquired images...

[Notdarkenough]

No, I haven't seen his work. I do know there are exceptions to every rule, and if you only have one exception it seems like a sound 'rule'. But, that wasn't the question. 

[Silent_Light]

Simple(ish) solution is get yourself an Equatorial Platform for the dob, and an autoguider setup. Not the cheapest nor easiest thing to get dialed in, but it will allow you to take longer exposures with your current equipment.

You can even make one yourself and feed that inner engineer !!

Edited by Silent_Light, 17 August 2024 - 06:45 PM.