12 replies to this topic

[mgCatskills]

 

This is my first post to the Light Pollution Forum.  I normally hang out in the EAA forum and live in the mid-Hudson Valley, where I'm also active in the Mid-Hudson Astronomical Association.  This summer I personally took on a project for the club to identify the best dark sites open to the general public in the Association's service area.  I used David Lorenz's Light Pollution Atlas 2022, and loaded it into a QGIS GIS system, and overlaid a database of public lands on top of it.  Based on that analysis, I identified, researched, and then visited likely candidate locations for accessibility and good viewing.

 

These PDF's are the result.  You can download them from my personal website here: https://catskillastr...son-dark-sites/

 

My intention is to load them onto the Association's website as soon as we complete the redesign.  But I thought I'd give you guys a sneak preview, with the hope that you take a look at them and suggest improvements.  Note we've distributing these under a Creative Commons No Derivatives License.  We're happy for anybody to copy and distribute these as long as the document isn't modified (frankly we're hoping to attract some members).

 

This is the first wave of releases.  I'm hoping to release one more location in the short term, and at least a couple of others in the longer term.  BTW, if you know of good dark sites in our service area, by all means suggest them.

 

Hope you find them useful, especially folks in the greater NYC area.

Edited by mgCatskills, 24 August 2024 - 01:39 PM.

[Tony Flanders]

Thanks so much, this is a superb piece of work! I'm sure it will be useful to many people. And it would be great if other people could do a similar job for other parts of the country (and world).

I've often considered driving down to Lake Taghkanic. My own preliminary scouting indicates that it is indeed darker than my home in northern Columbia County, even though intuition says it's crazy to drive toward New York City to escape light pollution. But I never had all the necessary logistical information in one place.

Where is the Mid-Hudson Astronomical Association based?

[Tim Hager]

This is a fantastic resource for those of us in the area!  Thanks so much for putting this together!

[mgCatskills]

Thanks so much, this is a superb piece of work! I'm sure it will be useful to many people. And it would be great if other people could do a similar job for other parts of the country (and world).

I've often considered driving down to Lake Taghkanic. My own preliminary scouting indicates that it is indeed darker than my home in northern Columbia County, even though intuition says it's crazy to drive toward New York City to escape light pollution. But I never had all the necessary logistical information in one place.

Where is the Mid-Hudson Astronomical Association based?

MHAA was founded by some professors at SUNY New Paltz.  Star Parties are at Lake Taghkanic, monthly talks are now on zoom and hosted in a lecture hall at SUNY New Paltz (if you want to attend in person).  The hard core folks go out for Pizza after the talks, so have a light dinner if you want to socialize.

 

If you're serious about using Lake Taghkanic, it's actually cheaper to join MHAA.    Of course, you can show up at a star party for free and bring your telescope; but if you want to use it on your own the MHAA annual membership is is only $25, gives you the right to use the club's Star Gazing Permit, and the park will waive your day-use fee.  Also, you can just fill in and submit a form on our website and it will automatically forward the notice to the Park office.

 

We have a meetup group for star parties... you need to register the day before.  Scheduled for this coming Fri 8/30, with cloud date Sat.  It's always the F/S on or just prior to the New Moon.  Weather forecast is pretty iffy right now, next date is Sept 27/28.

 

https://midhudsonastro.org/join-mhaa/

Edited by mgCatskills, 26 August 2024 - 09:46 AM.

[mgCatskills]

Just put up another dark site:  the Ashokan Reservoir.  Had a lovely time observing there the other night, thanks to Phil Perry for suggesting it.

 

https://catskillastro.com/mid-hudson-dark-sites/

Edited by mgCatskills, 06 September 2024 - 02:25 PM.

[Phil Perry]

Thanks for the shout-out, Michael. It was fun hosting you at the Ashokan site.

 

I was looking at the LP map and the central/western Catskills have an area that's B3 around Andes, Bovina, and Pepacton Reservoir. Is anyone familiar enough with that area to recommend any good viewing sites? Either public lands (DEP land, parks, etc. that are not closed at night), or private where I can get permission to drop by any time. Maybe somewhere along NY 30 along the shore of the Reservoir, though that appears to be pretty much forested (Shavertown Trailhead to a large clearing?). A short schelp (up to 1000 feet or so) from the car is OK. I'm around B4 to B4.5 at my home site, and the Ashokan site is about as good -- maybe a little bit of light dome from Kingston and Poughkeepsie (and points further south) that I'm someone shielded from at home, though at the cost of a somewhat high southern horizon.

 

Though it's shown as a bit into the B4 zone, NY 30 in Halcottsville between Margaretville and Roxbury has a scenic parking area that sounds promising. There might not be much of a view to the east, but I might drop by to take a look anyway. All this is further than Michael is planning to drive, but it might be feasible for me. The biggest problem is that none of this (Shavertown or Halcottsville) will be plowed in the winter, and is rural enough that I will need to worry about black bears showing up.

 

If anyone is familiar with viewing sites in this area, please chime in!

[mgCatskills]

Thanks for the shout-out, Michael. It was fun hosting you at the Ashokan site.

 

I was looking at the LP map and the central/western Catskills have an area that's B3 around Andes, Bovina, and Pepacton Reservoir. Is anyone familiar enough with that area to recommend any good viewing sites? Either public lands (DEP land, parks, etc. that are not closed at night), or private where I can get permission to drop by any time. Maybe somewhere along NY 30 along the shore of the Reservoir, though that appears to be pretty much forested (Shavertown Trailhead to a large clearing?). A short schelp (up to 1000 feet or so) from the car is OK. I'm around B4 to B4.5 at my home site, and the Ashokan site is about as good -- maybe a little bit of light dome from Kingston and Poughkeepsie (and points further south) that I'm someone shielded from at home, though at the cost of a somewhat high southern horizon.

 

Though it's shown as a bit into the B4 zone, NY 30 in Halcottsville between Margaretville and Roxbury has a scenic parking area that sounds promising. There might not be much of a view to the east, but I might drop by to take a look anyway. All this is further than Michael is planning to drive, but it might be feasible for me. The biggest problem is that none of this (Shavertown or Halcottsville) will be plowed in the winter, and is rural enough that I will need to worry about black bears showing up.

 

If anyone is familiar with viewing sites in this area, please chime in!

Hey, Phil, thanks for your help!

 

If you're referring to the color coding on the maps I prepared, they're based on the Light Pollution Atlas 2022 by David Lorenz.  I spoke to David when I first started this project, and to be fair, he doesn't like the Bortle Scale and is uncomfortable with translating back and forth.  That said, his colors translate to SQM, and there are SQM ranges associated with the Bortle Scale. 

 

If you read the overview document, I provide a conversion scale between the map colors and Bortle based on Wikipedia's SQM levels for each Bortle level.  Bottom line, the blue area on the map corresponds to the top half of Bortle 2 SQM levels.  All of the forest green and about 2/3 or the kelly green areas correspond to Bortle 3 SQM.  And Bortle 4 ends right about at the border between the light olive green and mustard yellow.

 

Again, take it with a grain of salt (YMMV).  Ashokan is located in the Kelly Green, an area that converts to Bortle 3 or 4... Yes it has some pretty serious light domes, but they turn pretty dark above 15° elevation, even looking towards Poughkeepsie/NYC.  In most sites, those domes would be hidden behind trees or other obstructions.

 

My back yard is in the olive green, i.e. Bortle 4.  I usually see the Milky Way, but with much less complexity than at the Ashokan Reservoir looking high in the sky.  On that comparison, I'm comfortable calling Ashokan Bortle 3.  My back yard doesn't have light domes to speak of, but most of the sky below 20° elevation is blocked by trees anyway.

 

The day we were there I was imaging M6 and M7 successfully at 10° -- I was VERY pleased.
 

[Phil Perry]

Today I finally went up to scout out that blue area in the map. The first was actually in the dark green area, at the scenic overlook off NY 30 in Halcottsville (Roxbury). Due to trees and topography (bad horizons), and having to deal with headlights, I won't be looking further at that one. Up the mountainside in Roxbury is the John Burroughs Memorial Field, still in the dark green, but with terrible north and west views, although some east and south are OK. Still, probably not worth the long drive and lugging my gear up the trail. Finally, I checked out the Shavertown Trail, in the blue area, off NY 30 where it crosses the Pepacton Reservoir. I didn't even make it to the clearing -- a steep (1:10), muddy, winding trail that I would not want to be hauling gear around in the dark. If it were easier to get to that clearing, it might be worth a look, though northern and western horizons will likely be bad. Plus, the "It's hunting season -- wear blaze orange!" sign is a bit off-putting. Aerial photos show what appears to be a vehicle track through the clearing, up to Snake Pond, but it looks like something I wouldn't try without a 4x4 (I don't know if the DEP approves of that, and try getting AAA to tow your stuck car out of such an area!), and it's hard to tell the slope from the photos. Well, 0-for-3 on these sites, although Michael has approved nearby Little Pond State Campground in the blue area.

 

My home site (Yankeetown Pond) and the Ashokan Reservoir Middle Dike appear to be adequate for my purposes for the time being, so unless I upgrade to really serious imaging, I don't think it's worth the extra effort to get to other sites. Maybe Lake Taghkanic SP for an MHAA Star Party, if the clouds ever break.

[mgCatskills]

Today I finally went up to scout out that blue area in the map. The first was actually in the dark green area, at the scenic overlook off NY 30 in Halcottsville (Roxbury). Due to trees and topography (bad horizons), and having to deal with headlights, I won't be looking further at that one. Up the mountainside in Roxbury is the John Burroughs Memorial Field, still in the dark green, but with terrible north and west views, although some east and south are OK. Still, probably not worth the long drive and lugging my gear up the trail. Finally, I checked out the Shavertown Trail, in the blue area, off NY 30 where it crosses the Pepacton Reservoir. I didn't even make it to the clearing -- a steep (1:10), muddy, winding trail that I would not want to be hauling gear around in the dark. If it were easier to get to that clearing, it might be worth a look, though northern and western horizons will likely be bad. Plus, the "It's hunting season -- wear blaze orange!" sign is a bit off-putting. Aerial photos show what appears to be a vehicle track through the clearing, up to Snake Pond, but it looks like something I wouldn't try without a 4x4 (I don't know if the DEP approves of that, and try getting AAA to tow your stuck car out of such an area!), and it's hard to tell the slope from the photos. Well, 0-for-3 on these sites, although Michael has approved nearby Little Pond State Campground in the blue area.

 

My home site (Yankeetown Pond) and the Ashokan Reservoir Middle Dike appear to be adequate for my purposes for the time being, so unless I upgrade to really serious imaging, I don't think it's worth the extra effort to get to other sites. Maybe Lake Taghkanic SP for an MHAA Star Party, if the clouds ever break.

Thanks for taking the exploration on.  Finding a nice spot with good sight lines is half the battle here... that's why virtually all of the sites are imaging next to a lake because it ensures a good horizon across the water (which can be a problem in itself however).

 

I had looked at Woodland Valley Campgrounds, which is quite dark, but offers truly restricted views.  I also looked at Kenneth L. Wilson campground.  The "playground" offers the best views, but it's not terribly level and you have to deal with getting a camping permit.  I didn't feel it offered enough "extra" to warrant inclusion.

 

You might want to check out Colgate Lake.  It's similar to Ashokan Reservoir in that access is easy, no permits required.  It's possible it's a bit darker than the Ashokan Reservoir. 

 

The nice thing about Little Pond is that the current head ranger is a star gazing fan and very supportive.  During camping season he'll let you set up with only a day use pass.  The skies should be extremely dark, and there are locations where you can set up on both sides of the lake, so you can tailor you horizon to your target list to some extent.

Edited by mgCatskills, 29 September 2024 - 12:10 PM.

[Phil Perry]

Kenneth L. Wilson is a mile and a half down the road from me, and is free entry from mid October to some time in the spring. I go XC skiing there (when it used to snow... :-( ). The parking lot is plowed, but really isn't that suitable for viewing, due to trees. The beach and pier area might be decent for east and west views, but I don't recall their being cleared of snow/ice. Once the ice is thick enough, you might be able to view from there. It's fairly dark there (I don't think there are any streetlights, but I haven't been there after dark), but there will be lights on various buildings in-season, so if you don't need good northern or southern horizons, it might be worth a try.

 

I drowned^H^H^H^H^H^H^H camped at Woodland Valley last fall. Nothing to recommend there regarding views. The Hinchey Catskill Interpretive Center, which we discussed offline earlier, might offer decent north-south views if you can arrange entry at night. I don't know how lit up the Emerson Resort is, just to the south, but I recall Dan telling me that the state DOT complex on the south side has some problem lighting. If you're interested, I could go by the two of them some evening soon, and see what the lighting situation is.

 

I'll have to give Colgate Lake and Little Pond some consideration, though those areas are a bit of a haul for me. Although if you can do a night trip to Little Pond, I should be able to do it!

 

https://www.cloudyni...tern-catskills/ has some info on western Catskills sites. https://www.cloudyni...rvation-points/ is more Hudson Valley-oriented.

[KD5NRH]

What's the budget?  If you can afford a used Citation X+, you could see what's available around Hudson Bay.

[mgCatskills]

Kenneth L. Wilson is a mile and a half down the road from me, and is free entry from mid October to some time in the spring. I go XC skiing there (when it used to snow... :-( ). The parking lot is plowed, but really isn't that suitable for viewing, due to trees. The beach and pier area might be decent for east and west views, but I don't recall their being cleared of snow/ice. Once the ice is thick enough, you might be able to view from there. It's fairly dark there (I don't think there are any streetlights, but I haven't been there after dark), but there will be lights on various buildings in-season, so if you don't need good northern or southern horizons, it might be worth a try.

 

I drowned^H^H^H^H^H^H^H camped at Woodland Valley last fall. Nothing to recommend there regarding views. The Hinchey Catskill Interpretive Center, which we discussed offline earlier, might offer decent north-south views if you can arrange entry at night. I don't know how lit up the Emerson Resort is, just to the south, but I recall Dan telling me that the state DOT complex on the south side has some problem lighting. If you're interested, I could go by the two of them some evening soon, and see what the lighting situation is.

 

I'll have to give Colgate Lake and Little Pond some consideration, though those areas are a bit of a haul for me. Although if you can do a night trip to Little Pond, I should be able to do it!

 

https://www.cloudyni...tern-catskills/ has some info on western Catskills sites. https://www.cloudyni...rvation-points/ is more Hudson Valley-oriented.

Thanks for sending those links to prior CN threads: I studied them pretty carefully.  The "western Catskills" link is really a "west of the Catskills" link... 2-2.5 hours from my house and 3-3.5 hours from the George Washington Bridge.  Pretty far away and not of interest to me.

 

The Hudson valley link was more interesting, but didn't add much to what we'd already figured out.  The most interesting part was it brought me to a listing for the Rockland County astronomy association which runs a week-long camping/star party at a private retreat center, operated by a non-profit organization, "Haven for Humanity", near Little Pond.  Likely one could book a retreat with them and bring a telescope.  I just browsed their website and saw that they want you to book a minimum of 5 days.  Basically, it seems like a private campground with some semi "glam" options...

 

We could try to hook up to observe at Little Pond, which is about 1:15 from my house.  It's very close to the Beaverkill River, which is one of the classic Catskill trout streams. 

 

The most likely scenario for me would be to combine it with an overnight fishing excursion: I have a friend who's a member of a private club on the river.  He invites my wife and me, usually on short notice, to join him there once or twice a year.  Our wives are close friends, and she keeps his wife from going stir crazy, so it works out for all of us.  The most direct route between the club and my home passes Little Pond.

 

Most likely I would consider bringing an EAA rig with me the next time I get a fishing invitation that happens to coincide with a decent moonlight/weather forecast. But I'd be staying at the fishing club, not camping.  One awkward aspect of this is that prime fishing is often the evening hatch, which usually extends past sundown, so the logistics may not work very well for observing even though the fishing club and Little Pond are only about 20 minutes apart.

 

Still, I can let you know when I'm going.  If you were camping at Little Pond you might be able to get me in to join you at the beach... most campsites would not allow someone to come in after dark and leave in the middle of the night, but the chief ranger at Little Pond is a star gazer and would probably happily join us if he could look through our telescopes.

[Phil Perry]

I went by the Hinchey CIC this evening (Friday) -- the gate was open as there was some sort of private event going on. The streetlights in the parking area were on, as were the building lights, but if they were off, it should be pretty dark there. The State DOT complex on the south side was fairly dark, and the Emerson Resort well to the north (not south, as I had recalled) isn't too bad. For dark skies, the Hinchey looks promising. However, the horizons don't seem that great -- maybe 10* in a narrow window to the SSE, 25* to the E, 15* W and N. It was dark, so my rough estimates may be off. Did you (Michael) happen to measure the horizons with your camera? The only advantage to this site (over something on a lake/pond/reservoir) would be lower chances of fog.

 

I haven't had any interactions with the management at Hinchey, regarding whether they would allow observing there. I recall that Dan S. arranged something there 4 or 5 years ago. As with most other public parks, there are access restrictions and someone would probably have to carry insurance and agree to be liable for vandalism to facilities. They might charge a fee to have one of their staff there to keep an eye on things. Maybe it would be feasible for MHAA to hold a large Star Party there, but my guess would be that a small private group of observers would find it not worth the hassle. For a public event, some sort of lighting might be needed along the roadway so that cars can turn off their headlights -- a real PITA to set out and pick up.

 

Regarding Little Pond, it might be easier for me to camp there, but I assume that I need to make reservations in advance, long before the weather is known. If I don't stay unreasonably late, it's also about a 1:15 drive for me, so I could get home if allowed to leave in the middle of the night. As you know the Chief Ranger, you would have to arrange things. Let me know if you want to try something (next year?).