12 replies to this topic

[Ron359]

So much for 'working with Astronomers.' Yet another lie from Musk.  

 

 Not just brighter any more,  now they are blue! And as a bonus, a  full 2 magnitudes or 5 times brighter than the other Muskelites, with   Many more to come.  This today on Spaceweather.com

 

 

"DTC satellites are SpaceX's attempt to create "a cell tower in space." The first batch of six was launched in Jan. 2024, and now there are 129 DTCs in orbit. According to a recent study, on average they shine nearly five times brighter in the sky than earlier Starlinks. The extra brightness is a probable result of their larger antennas and lower altitudes.

 

Earlier this year, SpaceX requested an amendment to their license with the U.S. Federal Communications Commission allowing them to operate up to 7,500 DTCs orbiting at heights near 350 km. If that plan comes to fruition, there might soon be many more blue streaks in the night sky."

 

 

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[auroraTDunn]

Yep the blue helps(?) Wait how?

 

 

Earlier this year, SpaceX requested an amendment to their license with the U.S. Federal Communications Commission allowing them to operate up to 7,500 DTCs orbiting at heights near 350 km. If that plan comes to fruition, there might soon be many more blue streaks in the night sky."

Add to that, all the thousands China is planning on, soon India will want to do the same. Soon the entire space above the Earth will be one massive, dense, Theolium web.

The next massive new and must have product from Russell Croman: "SatelliteXTerminator"

[TelescopeBah]

I really hate for the sky to be full of all these artifical moving lights, for so long the night sky was something left very much un-tainted by man. Now that is changing, but making the best of what we have... aren't I correct that these satellites, being low-orbit, will mostly only be visible in the early evening and pre-dawn? Because in the hours from say eleven pm to three am they will be in the earth's shadow?

[RLK1]

Looks like the IAU satellite mitigation project has its work cut out for it but at least it now has funding to do it:

 

"The IAU Centre for the Protection of the Dark and Quiet Sky from Satellite Constellation Interference (IAU CPS), which is co-hosted by NSF NOIRLab and the SKAO, has received a SWIFT-SAT grant [1] from the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF)."

 

"SWIFT-SAT grants (Spectrum and Wireless Innovation enabled by Future Technologies - Satellite-Terrestrial Coexistence) support research on techniques to overcome radio interference and light pollution conflicts between satellite users (communications, earth sensing) and terrestrial users (communications, astronomy) enabling usage growth to benefit society."

 

https://www.iau.org/...detail/iau2409/

 

BTW, click on the "click to enlarge" link below the picture near the top of the page for an awesome view of the milky way, while we still have it...

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

It’s sad. Reminds of Wall-E movie.

[Ron359]

Looks like the IAU satellite mitigation project has its work cut out for it but at least it now has funding to do it:Yo

 

"The IAU Centre for the Protection of the Dark and Quiet Sky from Satellite Constellation Interference (IAU CPS), which is co-hosted by NSF NOIRLab and the SKAO, has received a SWIFT-SAT grant [1] from the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF)."

 

"SWIFT-SAT grants (Spectrum and Wireless Innovation enabled by Future Technologies - Satellite-Terrestrial Coexistence) support research on techniques to overcome radio interference and light pollution conflicts between satellite users (communications, earth sensing) and terrestrial users (communications, astronomy) enabling usage growth to benefit society."

 

https://www.iau.org/...detail/iau2409/

 

BTW, click on the "click to enlarge" link below the picture near the top of the page for an awesome view of the milky way, while we still have it...

No doubt the IAU has a tiny fraction of the resources needed to balance the opposing resources or ego of the richest man on the  planet.  And they are only going to "research techniques", all the while thousands of LP producing satellites are launched each year - by just this 1 polluter.

 

 If the richest man in the world didn't have his company do this research up front and implement a real solution before he launched the first one, it obviously means he has no interest in doing it cause he has not a care or need for a 'LP free' night sky, or gives a nat's a... for the science of Astronomy,  because  it would cut into his profits.  He has even said the whole concept is unprofitable until he can launch tens of thousands into LEO with his 1950's Chesley Bonestell designed "star ship."  

 

 Two parties on opposing sides cannot succeed in coexisting when one party always has a hidden agenda and lies about their intentions to prevent the other from imposing restrictions or having any real control that might  be limiting the perceived potential profit or personal gain.  It has worked that way for over 100 yrs with polluting industries or thousands of years between competing nations.   We've already seen this behavior from "this polluter" a number of times.  Remember, how much research was done for millions and millions of bucks, to find "Clean Coal," and "Healthier Cigarettes"?  To think this will go otherwise is being completely naive.  

 

"Peace in our time"  British Prime Minister Chamberlain, 1938. 

Edited by Ron359, 26 August 2024 - 01:15 AM.

[PEterW]

The worry is that we’ll end up with a service that either doesn’t want or no one wants and a near earth environment that is so polluted that we can’t safely launch or use satellites that provide useful data (astro/earth observation).

Peter

[Ron359]

The worry is that we’ll end up with a service that either doesn’t want or no one wants and a near earth environment that is so polluted that we can’t safely launch or use satellites that provide useful data (astro/earth observation).

Peter

If non wants the service, and 'the company' goes out of business, the 'good news' is the orbits are low enough to decay pretty quickly and won't be replaced at least by that company.

 

 It will be the companies that take over or continue for a decade or more that will be replacing those that de-orbit.  Hopefully the whole business concept of LEO mega-constellations will be very unprofitable so investors give up on the idea.  Musk himself has said Starlink won't make money until it starts launching them by the hundreds on his  fantasy 'starship' regularly.   Hard to believe the 'starship' will ever be viable as anything but a superego-booster,  profit killer and tax write-off.  

[Bearcub]

No doubt the IAU has a tiny fraction of the resources needed to balance the opposing resources or ego of the richest man on the  planet.  And they are only going to "research techniques", all the while thousands of LP producing satellites are launched each year - by just this 1 polluter.

 

 If the richest man in the world didn't have his company do this research up front and implement a real solution before he launched the first one, it obviously means he has no interest in doing it cause he has not a care or need for a 'LP free' night sky, or gives a nat's a... for the science of Astronomy,  because  it would cut into his profits.  He has even said the whole concept is unprofitable until he can launch tens of thousands into LEO with his 1950's Chesley Bonestell designed "star ship."  

 

 Two parties on opposing sides cannot succeed in coexisting when one party always has a hidden agenda and lies about their intentions to prevent the other from imposing restrictions or having any real control that might  be limiting the perceived potential profit or personal gain.  It has worked that way for over 100 yrs with polluting industries or thousands of years between competing nations.   We've already seen this behavior from "this polluter" a number of times.  Remember, how much research was done for millions and millions of bucks, to find "Clean Coal," and "Healthier Cigarettes"?  To think this will go otherwise is being completely naive.  

 

"Peace in our time"  British Prime Minister Chamberlain, 1938. 

Its not musks fault. He doesnt give himself the permission. If he wasnt doing, someone else would. And they do. china, india. every country will want to put some flying rubbish. And nobody in elections ever going to talk about normal skies. Nope.. Real culprit for all your troubles is the people in charge gov. They decide what is allowed and whts not. Who gets subsidies and who is not. And if you look at them they will point finger at some usa elon, or asian elon, or indian elon. And people will look away from gov.

[marvyyk]

sad.

 

No United Nations astronomer-friendly body to help to regulate/limit that? 

[Ron359]

Its not musks fault. He doesnt give himself the permission. If he wasnt doing, someone else would. And they do. china, india. every country will want to put some flying rubbish. And nobody in elections ever going to talk about normal skies. Nope.. Real culprit for all your troubles is the people in charge gov. They decide what is allowed and whts not. Who gets subsidies and who is not. And if you look at them they will point finger at some usa elon, or asian elon, or indian elon. And people will look away from gov.

Musk most certainly takes advantage of the lack of satellite regulation to make them as cheap and bright as he needs to, to maximize his profit potential.  Gov. is wayyy behind the curve, but when over 1/2 the citizens voting for them, are against most form of any corporate pollution regs or controls and Musk is one that want to abolish what is already has been the 'law' for over 50 years, it is clearly "Musk's fault." 

Edited by Ron359, 08 September 2024 - 06:22 PM.

[Freezout]

For the sake of staying happy, I'm really going to have to stop reading the Light Pollution forum...

 

It confirms the doubts I have when people write "no problem if you cannot observe a night or one year, the stars will always be there when you get back to your telescope..." no, the sky gets more and more trashy every year.

[csa/montana]

Due to politics rearing it's ugly head in this thread, it's now locked