15 replies to this topic

[CosmicWreckingBall]

I asked this question in the refractor forum because I have 4” refractor and wanted to get opinions of folks who’d done the Herschel 400 with a refractor but also those who had added another scope, primarily a cat or reflector.  I had a 5 inch refractor (Takahashi TSA 120) but I sold it as the 4 inch was the one I grabbed 95% of the time.  And call me crazy, but I prefer the color (in the scope) of the 4 inch over the 5 inch. There’s just something about my 100 DZ that keeps me coming back. And honestly, side-by-side my 120 and my 100- most of the time it was extremely hard to tell the difference between the two and I could not bring myself to sell the 100 over the 120. Ultimately ease of use is very important to me. So having looked through an 8” Edge HD over the summer on one of the Messier objects that was very tough for me in my refractor, the Edge really triumphed. And of course that got me thinking I could grab a Mewlon or Edge for those tougher objects. They would still be easier to pick up and put on my alt/az mount than rolling out and assembling my 12 inch dob.   
 

I'm currently looking at both the Mewlon 180 or the Edge 8hd. Both would work on my current alt/az mount easily.   I hoped that they’d nicely reveal some of the more faint objects.  Having said that, I just completed my messier object list, and some of the fainter objects were very tough in my 4” refractor. At times I had to set up my 12 inch Dob, and that took an hour or so. Opinions welcomed, particularly for the Mewlon as that’s the way I’m leaning.

[Starman1]

I completed the Herschel 400, and then some, in a 6" reflector in mag 21.5 skies.

By the time I had an 8", I was thousands of DSOs past the Herschel 400.

Your skies might not be as dark, so the scope needed would be correspondingly larger.

I don't know your circumstances, but a 12" could be left set up and wheeled somewhere on a hand truck, so only a touch up on collimation would be needed.

Certainly, a 12", even in moderately bright skies, would make short work of the Herschel 400.

I'd hate for you to have the 12" go to waste.

[Doug Culbertson]

A guy named Jay Reynolds Freeman did the Hershel 400 with a 55mm Vixen Fluorite refractor, so anything’s possible. 

 

When I did the H400 I used an 8” for the first half, then finished with a 10” dob. I’m with Don, I would use the 12”. 

[SoCalPaul]

You may be able to complete a checklist with a smaller scope, and take pride in the accomplishment.

 

But "aperture wins" and the objects would, I suspect, look better in a larger scope.

 

Jay Freeman told a group of us that he was able to do the H400 with such a small scope because he had already observed the objects in larger instruments.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[Doug Culbertson]

You may be able to complete a checklist with a smaller scope, and take pride in the accomplishment.

 

But "aperture wins" and the objects would, I suspect, look better in a larger scope.

 

Jay Freeman told a group of us that he was able to do the H400 with such a small scope because he had already observed the objects in larger instruments.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

The C14 mentioned in this article? 

 

http://www.jayreynol...RRSaga.text.pdf

[areyoukiddingme]

If the 12" is taking an hour to set up, something is slowing things down. Is it thermal, or is it going on massive equatorial mount that requires a crane? I'd be inclined to find ways to optimize the 12".

 

Having said that, a 4" refractor, a 8" Cat, and 12" reflector makes for a good complementary set of scopes.

[SoCalPaul]

The C14 mentioned in this article? 

 

http://www.jayreynol...RRSaga.text.pdf

Thanks for sharing that, a good read!

 

Paul

[turtle86]

I asked this question in the refractor forum because I have 4” refractor and wanted to get opinions of folks who’d done the Herschel 400 with a refractor but also those who had added another scope, primarily a cat or reflector.  I had a 5 inch refractor (Takahashi TSA 120) but I sold it as the 4 inch was the one I grabbed 95% of the time.  And call me crazy, but I prefer the color (in the scope) of the 4 inch over the 5 inch. There’s just something about my 100 DZ that keeps me coming back. And honestly, side-by-side my 120 and my 100- most of the time it was extremely hard to tell the difference between the two and I could not bring myself to sell the 100 over the 120. Ultimately ease of use is very important to me. So having looked through an 8” Edge HD over the summer on one of the Messier objects that was very tough for me in my refractor, the Edge really triumphed. And of course that got me thinking I could grab a Mewlon or Edge for those tougher objects. They would still be easier to pick up and put on my alt/az mount than rolling out and assembling my 12 inch dob.   
 

I'm currently looking at both the Mewlon 180 or the Edge 8hd. Both would work on my current alt/az mount easily.   I hoped that they’d nicely reveal some of the more faint objects.  Having said that, I just completed my messier object list, and some of the fainter objects were very tough in my 4” refractor. At times I had to set up my 12 inch Dob, and that took an hour or so. Opinions welcomed, particularly for the Mewlon as that’s the way I’m leaning.

 

I agree with the other posters that your 12" is probably the best choice for H400 objects.  But it sounds like you find your 12" somewhat inconvenient to use and would prefer something easier to set up, such as a Mewlon 180.

 

As for the Mewlon, I have one myself and really like it.  It's very easy to set up and has very sharp optics. I think of as more as a lunar or planetary scope as it's f/12, and personally prefer using a Dob with more aperture (and shorter focal ratio) for deep sky objects, but would think it would be fine for H400 objects so long as your skies are reasonably dark.  And if you ever wanted to go to a dark site, it would certainly be easy enough to transport.

 

At the end of the day, the best scope is the one you most enjoy using.

Edited by turtle86, 05 September 2024 - 06:02 PM.

[Echolight]

You're getting closer to the cats and casses forum.

 

Here's my 24 year old C8 with .63 reducer corrector and 2" Baader diagonal with lockring sans nosepiece to meet the spec'd 105mm backspace holding a 28 PWA for 1.8 degrees at 46x with a 4.4mm exit pupil, on a rather large Unistar manual alt az mount on an AVX tripod.

Love this scope and mount. Easy to look through. And at around 40 pounds all up, not too hard to carry around the yard to dodge trees.

 

If I had to carry the tripod out every time, then my 10 inch dob would be nearly as easy to set up. But the 20-ish pound stainless legs stay out back in the elements, at the ready.

The bigger dob is nice to have for more detailed study of individual targets. But for just jumping around and finding new stuff, the little deuced and reduced cat has an advantage... for me.

Edited by Echolight, 05 September 2024 - 09:44 PM.

[cliff mygatt]

I did the H400 with an 8 inch SCT at dark sky areas.  I completed the H2 with a 12 inch Dob with Zambuto mirror.  I now have a 16 inch dob and working ARPs and Active Galactic Nucliae galaxies.

[CosmicWreckingBall]

Thabks for all the replies, everyone.  Very helpful commentary and suggestions. 
 

I did the H400 with an 8 inch SCT at dark sky areas.  I completed the H2 with a 12 inch Dob with Zambuto mirror.  I now have a 16 inch dob and working ARPs and Active Galactic Nucliae galaxies.

 

Hi Cliff!  I just turned my Messier Catalog into Scott- well one of my club officers did.  I’m the guy that sketched all the constellations for the northern constellation hunter program. My Messier catalog was all sketched and hand written as well. 

 

 

[SoCalPaul]

Thabks for all the replies, everyone.  Very helpful commentary and suggestions. 
 

 

Hi Cliff!  I just turned my Messier Catalog into Scott- well one of my club officers did.  I’m the guy that sketched all the constellations for the northern constellation hunter program. My Messier catalog was all sketched and hand written as well. 

 

 

Very nice! You've got talent!

 

I sure don't, can't draw or sketch to save my life.

 

Paul

[Echolight]

I had always imagined the Big Dipper was shiny stainless steel and more square edged and flat bottomed.

Now I realize that I was lacking in imagination 

[lwbehney]

 I had a 5 inch refractor (Takahashi TSA 120) but I sold it as the 4 inch was the one I grabbed 95% of the time.  And call me crazy, but I prefer the color (in the scope) of the 4 inch over the 5 inch. There’s just something about my 100 DZ….

That’s an intriguing comment. I have read of a few other reports that said star colors were dull in triplets compared to fluorite doublets. Was it superior contrast in the DZ with perhaps a darker background at identical magnification? 

[CosmicWreckingBall]

That was certainly my experience.   Stars like Arcturus, Antares and the double star Alberio just seem to POP in my DZ compared to the TSA.  Folks told me I was crazy (mainly people online, never someone who looked through the scope as it is visible) but I prefer the 100.  Really wish Tak still made the 128 doublet.

[balcon3]

I think seeing the objects in the Mewlon will be fine. The challenge may be finding them in the maximum 1.2 degree field of view.