26 replies to this topic

[brisguy]

I am currently using a Windows laptop as my controller, but thinking about moving to a small mini-pc that would go on the mount/scope.  

 

After spending several hours over the last couple of days reviewing guiding plots and NINA logs, or setting up a sequence on the laptop while in my house (I move it out each night for imaging), I realized that having a PC attached to the scope has some real limitations if you want to use it during the day.

 

My problem is that I rarely leave the mount setup for more than a few days at a time and breakdown involves taking the scope off the mount and detaching most of the cables. 

 

So my question: how do you deal with having a pc that may not be easily accessed during the off hours? Do you remove the PC, or have some slick way of powering it up when the mount is down?

 

Thanks

[StarfieldTSS]

So, I have my mini-PC attached to a long dovetail plate that also holds the OTA.   I've got it attached with a dovetail clamp so it's easy to remove it from the mount and bring it inside.    Then I just hook it up to a power adapter and use remote desktop to access it and work on it.

 

CS   Steve

[speedster]

I use a BeeLink headless mini at the pier and it is always on.  TeamViewer to communicate with it from another device.

[ButterFly]

My main power is split to the computer and the mount.  I can leave power leads hooked up, but turn off on or the other at will.  I simply use velcro.  Unless your mount specifically says that it can handle some level of current needed to power the PC, I wouldn't suggest powering the PC directly from the mount itself.

 

When I need to connect during the day, I just remote in from my home network.  I rarely need to take it off the mount, but if I do, it's just velcro, and disconnecting usb cables and the power lead.  I use the same PC between several scopes, and usually one at a time.  If I need to use both scopes at the same time, I have a SkyFi device that puts out at least the mount's serial port over TCP.

 

Are there any specific concerns you're having?  You can attach and detach as easily as you want, and you can access a PC over a network.  With an appropriate cover for your conditions, the PC can also live with the mount during the day.  In the bay area, the clouds can be half an inch above the ground, so a simple Telegizmos 365 cover may not be enough without some kind of fog control.  That's something the people in your local club will have better suggestions for.

[PIEJr]

I tried the mini-PC when it was the new rage.

Didn't work for me back then. First, the Mini didn't work with my Wi-Fi signal. I tried all sorts of fixes and Band-Aids. It kept arbitrarily dropping out.

But the absolute worst part was no display at the mount. I about wore a path through the house hiking back and forth.

I still have the little hooter. I actually hooked it up and it still works.

 

I went and got a Laptop-Tablet when that craze came along. It worked much better.

 

Eventually that was just too puny, so I got a cheap Asus 14" laptop at Sam's Club (the membership Walmart).

And that's what I'm using now.

All the bells and whistles of a real computer at the mount, Wi-Fi's great, and I use a portable SSD to gather and store my images.

Best part is being able to see at the mount.

 

I'm using Tight Vnc as my joiner for my inside to outside computers.

Edited by PIEJr, 05 September 2024 - 07:40 PM.

[diver66]

Hopefully a photo might help

 

 

During the day you can remove it from the scope or you can power it up in place and use a remote desktop app to get into it. 

[joshman]

The idea behind an OTA mounted miniPC, is that it's really only needed when you're imaging.

 

I've got a MeLE Quieter 3Q and a Quieter 4C, and both have performed very very well. I designed and 3d printed a quick change plate for both of them, so if i ever need to power them up during the day, i can remove them and plug them into a power brick in the house, in ~30seconds.

[archiebald]

I am currently using a Windows laptop as my controller, but thinking about moving to a small mini-pc that would go on the mount/scope.  

 

After spending several hours over the last couple of days reviewing guiding plots and NINA logs, or setting up a sequence on the laptop while in my house (I move it out each night for imaging), I realized that having a PC attached to the scope has some real limitations if you want to use it during the day.

 

My problem is that I rarely leave the mount setup for more than a few days at a time and breakdown involves taking the scope off the mount and detaching most of the cables. 

 

So my question: how do you deal with having a pc that may not be easily accessed during the off hours? Do you remove the PC, or have some slick way of powering it up when the mount is down?

 

Thanks

A mini-PC is cheap enough in AP terms that you can dedicate it 100% to the rig.  I have a Beelink Mini-S12 (cheap and reliable) velcroed onto the side of my HEQ-5 Pro.  I break down my rig every morning but never take the mini-PC off the mount.

 

The only time my mini-PC has ever been connected to a monitor, mouse and keyboard was during initial Windows 11 setup.

 

I have the wifi set up as a hotspot and as a client at the same time so it connects to my household network when I'm shooting at home, or I can connect to it when I take it to a dark sky site.  Range is pretty solid as my house is wooden, YMMV but it is very simple to add a wifi repeater if required..

 

When I'm setting up for the night I'll carry my notebook PC outside and control via VNC, sit down next to the mount with a cup of tea and do my setup. As soon as PA and any other adjustments are done, the notebook comes back inside with me.  After imaging has started, I connect into it using RealVNC from my notebook, my desktop, my tablet, or even from my phone.

 

When I've finished imaging, the scope comes off the mount, everything comes inside. If you configure your layout well, only a few cables needs disconnecting, in my case it is three.

 

Then I remount the scope indoors (safest place) and power up the mini-PC, shoot my flats, and again from my network, I'll transfer all my lights and flats to my processing PC.  While I'm doing that I might also check for any updates on NINA or Windows (Windows auto updates are strictly turned off, I only allow manual updates).

 

 

[afd33]

I use a Beelink PC and Pegasus Power Box. Then I 3D printed a mount for them to mount on to the dovetail where most would put a guide scope. If I need to power the PC during the day I just plug in the powerbox. I leave everything attached to the scope, so for the most part the cabling stays all attached. My FRA300/EQM-35 set up it stays on the mount and I carry it that way. For my C8 set up, I detach the power and USB to the mount and the power to the powerbox, and then the rest of it stays connected to the scope which comes off the mount when I tear down.

 

I set up in my backyard and use the Robocopy plug-in in NINA to transfer files. Rarely do I need to use the mini PC during the day. I have NINA installed on my regular PC that if I want to check something or make a sequence or something I can do most of that during the day and just transfer it over when I turn on the mini PC.

[DirtyRod]

Mine is dedicated to imaging so it never comes off the OTA. If I need the logs I copy them off over WiFi or using the same flash drive I use to copy my images off the next morning. When I set up my sequence, I remote in using Google Remote Desktop from a tablet or my iPad.

[flamidey]

I use a remote controlled WiFi plug to switch my 12v power supply outside when I need the pc on.

[italic]

I do what a lot of people here do, but I have mine mounted on the tripod instead of on the OTA. I have my USB connections on a hub so I simply unplug power, the hub and velcro to bring it to the desk to work on. I have one of the stock power supplies near my desk for this purpose. If I need to test some hardware, I just power it up off the battery I usually use and it is already connected to my network, just like how archiebald does. I take a laptop out to get set up with polar alignment, then go back inside to set up the sequence from my workstation. I use a dish to get wifi out to the computer, so I can transfer files to the workstation before packing everything up for the night. That allows me to take flats outside, either with a flat panel or the street light, without disturbing the optics or dust.

 

[brisguy]

Wow! Thanks for all the great input. This is very helpful! 

[andysea]

I printed a saddle that my PC and powder/data distribution sit on. The PC is dedicated to image acquisition. I can move it from scope to scope as it slides on the top mounted Losmandy that each one of my telescopes has.

 

Sorry about the blurry photos, you would think that as a photographer I should be able to take better phone pictures.

Attached Thumbnails

• 
• 

[rgsalinger]

As the OP's CEM40 has some cable management facilities, my thought would be that going to wireless is never going to be as reliable as just using the power and USB ports on the mount with a power box. That preserves the nice screen/keyboard/mouse/trackpad environment at. That 15" screen is really nice to have available when there's a problem. Of course, if you have 4 OTA's by all means make the PB easily to mount and dismount on all the OTA's. I just don't see that a second computer is a good idea when you have USB and power going through the mount in the first place. 

[brisguy]

>the OP's CEM40 has some cable management facilities

 

Well, it does, but I can't use the USB port since it only supports USB2 and I need USB3 for my camera, so I still have to run a USB line to the OTA.

 

In addition to better cable management, I was hoping for better control or monitoring of the USB connections since that has been an ongoing problem for me, which I thought I might address by going to Astroberry or a similar UNIX-based system. I was not considering wireless control, only wireless monitoring.

 

>Best part is being able to see at the mount.

 

Yes, I do need this when doing polar alignment which I have to do every time I set up. Also, my assumption is that once I go to the mini-pc I will eventually not have a laptop. My main PC is a desktop and the laptop is getting old. I suppose I could connect a portable monitor to the mini when doing PA. 

[flamidey]

 

 

In addition to better cable management, I was hoping for better control or monitoring of the USB connections since that has been an ongoing problem for me, which I thought I might address by going to Astroberry or a similar UNIX-based system. I was not considering wireless control, only wireless monitoring.

 

 

I've been down this road. I tried quite a few mini pcs and usb hub combinations. Sadly, the only way I managed to fix these USB issues + get some decent control was to get a power box. It's stupid expensive but I can honestly say it was the best investment I made regarding available time to image vs time spent trying to fix things + lost night.

 

For those, you have a moderate range of products available. Pegasus and Wanderer Astro are the two most common I believe.

[DirtyRod]

My main PC is a desktop and the laptop is getting old. I suppose I could connect a portable monitor to the mini when doing PA. 

I take the same tablet that I use to monitor my sessions out to the mount using Google Remote Desktop to connect to the miniPC and see the screen. Much easier than hauling out a table and monitor. 
 

i suspect that most people do it this way.

Edited by DirtyRod, 07 September 2024 - 12:51 PM.

[rgsalinger]

Generally no one "needs" USB3 for their camera unless they are doing lucky imaging or high frame rate planetary. Just use USB2 and be happy with almost as fast 100 percent reliable connections. Since this forum is about DSO imaging, my working mode is to think that people are talking about long exposures. I used USB 2 connections for years and years on my Paramount and just never ever had any of the USB problems that are so rife here on CN. 

[archiebald]

Yes, I do need this when doing polar alignment which I have to do every time I set up. Also, my assumption is that once I go to the mini-pc I will eventually not have a laptop. My main PC is a desktop and the laptop is getting old. I suppose I could connect a portable monitor to the mini when doing PA. 

No reason why any old laptop can't be used just during setup.  Rad my post #8 above, my laptop just becomes a monitor for the mini-PC while I'm setting up.  Could be a tablet but I work better with physical keyboards.
 

[andysea]

Yeah I agree. I use an M1 MacBook Air to remote into my mini PC using microsoft Remote Desktop. I find it much easier than using my iPad. I typically don't have internet out in the field and remote desktop works best on a LAN. I use a cheap USB powered router to create my local network.

 

Here's what my setup looks like.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by andysea, 07 September 2024 - 09:48 PM.

[archiebald]

Yeah I agree. I use an M1 MacBook Air to remote into my mini PC using microsoft Remote Desktop. I find it much easier than using my iPad. I typically don't have internet out in the field and remote desktop works best on a LAN. I use a cheap USB powered router to create my local network.

 

Here's what my setup looks like.

Nice, clean setup.

 

I've see some other people using a router but for me it's just another piece of electron grabbing equipment to go wrong.  Personally I have always found that the mini-PC's hotspot is perfectly good enough for up to 20 meters or so. (Beelink Mini-S12)

 

Regardin RDP, I have a shortcut set up to run it, but only keep it ready as a backup.  In all cases, there are variants of VNC that are much faster and efficient once set up.

 

I have also experimented with a direct ethernet connection as the ultimate backup (LAN cable), works perfectly and even faster.

[rgsalinger]

I've been using RDP locally and over the internet for about 13 years now. Never had a single disconnection in all that time (that I can recall). I can't imagine that there's some "much faster" connection possible. Is there any actual documentation on this? I don't experience any serious lags so it would be hard to measure it.

 

I also use a VNC built into my router sometimes to access my remote systems. It's not obviously faster than RDP and doesn't support dual monitors (which I like). I have this bias against any software that I have to pay for or install unless it's necessary. What free VNC would work allowing me to access 5 different computers simultaneously from my home office? 

 

Since the OP has cable management for power and USB, a powerbox would work really well and would create the same level of cable management without the need for a second computer to monitor the progress of the imaging run or trouble shoot it. So, I think I would just stick with a single laptop as long as it had a nice screen. 

[andysea]

I must add that I would get my hands slapped by AP for not using  through mount cabling but I really dislike that option.

I thought about using an Ethernet cable, I suppose that would be simple enough. Maybe I will give it a try someday.

[rgsalinger]

I avoided running cables through any of my mounts for 14 years. This year my observatory partner gave me a long term loan of an AP1100AE. Now no one could resist that offer, IMHO. However, I was terrified of running the necessary 2 cables through the mount to the power box I already owned. So, I got a friend to come out with me to the observatory who owns an AP1100. We removed the top cap of the mount. At that point it took me 5 minutes (I swear) to run the two cables though the mount with no help from my friend. He was helpful in putting the Edge 11 back on the mount, though. Anyway, if you have an 1100, running cables through the mount is a whole different ball game then (say) a Paramount MX+ or a CEM120EC2 both of which I have owned and been chicken to run cables through. YMMV but that 1100 is just a cable runners dream mount. Sorry to be off topic..............

Edited by rgsalinger, Yesterday, 01:09 AM.