10 replies to this topic

[BYoesle]

Just published today. Link to article.

 

[hornjs]

Wow, pretty compelling association there Bob.  Glad I live in MT in the dark blue

[RLK1]

We're starting to see a trend here as shown in this relatively recent systematic review of the literature:

 

"Overall, we found moderate evidence of a positive association between LAN exposure and depressive symptoms and to a lesser extent other mental disorders,..."

 

https://www.scienced...022781?via=ihub

[PEterW]

Not being able to the see the stars properly does make one rather depressed for obvious reasons. This sort of study is useful to dig potential topics for others do more detailed and discriminatory studies. This one seems to show a correlation which we know doesn’t always mean a causation. The weakness and gaps in the data are acknowledged. I live under crap skies, but have always used blackout curtains (with recently added card shields to improve the dark sealing as a neighbour has installed a camera with a light that goes on and off every few minutes :-(. Of course I probably use my phone too much into the late evening, so I hope that it’s “night mode” will help minimise my exposure to blue light… guess I’ll find out in a few decades.

Peter

[quirkster1]

Incidentally, this article appeared in the digital edition of the Guardian Australia. 

 

https://www.theguard...lzheimers-study

 

If there is a further reason to reduce light pollution, this is it.

 

 

[Ron359]

I wouldn't get your 'hopes up' that any real correlation will be found anytime soon and lead to reductions of LP.  This article is so far from "scientific" that it is really just 'fishing for funding' for the authors to do more study.

 

 Its no coincidence that the areas of worst LP are also the most densely populated and 'industrialized' cities and the outlying areas so there are going to be the highest occurrences of Alzheimers just as a % of population.  Where there more than likely many other high industrial pollutants in  the air, water,  processed foods or you name it, occur in cities that more than likely contribute to high levels of Alzheimers.  We already know the lowest income & minority communities in those parts of cities and the industrial areas have much higher levels of cancer and other diseases than more 'well off' areas.  There are probably over a hundred 'variables' in the LP urban environment that would have to be sorted out in real controlled science based studies.   

 

  Don't forget ( unless you already have symptoms) that Alzheimers was first diagnosed and named as a disease in the early 1900's in Germany.   Long before there were huge increases in LP, but long after the industrial revolution and 'polluting industry's' had been using the urban and x-urban air-water-soil in the environment as open sewers for decades.   

 

I'm going to post this as a 'new' post,  but this CBS news story that aired yesterday, shows far more 'correlation' to LP and that real actions are being taken to reduce LP to reduce the threat to bird populations.    

 

https://www.cbs.com/...Ocp8J1PwynTfgn/

Edited by Ron359, 16 September 2024 - 03:58 PM.

[RLK1]

It's certainly possible that in time, more evidence will be uncovered to support an association between ALAN and mental decline. 

 

Likewise, in the scientific literature discussing the link between ALAN and cancer, we find:

 

"In sum, current evidence supports an association between ALAN and oncogenesis"

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7764771/

 

Additionally:

 

"Although ALAN is not commonly perceived as hazardous, due to lack of public awareness, its impact on the circadian rhythm, melatonin regulation, sleep and alertness and mood has been widely documented. Studies on night workers have been seminal in establishing ALAN as a lifestyle risk factor for sleep disorders, cancer, cardiovascular disease, type 2 diabetes, obesity, and depression, among many others."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...es/PMC10447180/

Edited by RLK1, 16 September 2024 - 04:57 PM.

[RLK1]

I see PubMed is now including the article noting that it has not yet been peer reviewed. It'll be interesting to see what revisions are made in response to the peer review process. I'd certainly expect modifications to the article after that process is completed.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm...e United States.

Edited by RLK1, 17 September 2024 - 08:05 PM.

[Urban Uraniborg]

Where there is an abundance of light pollution there’s also an abundance of industry.  Pinning the tail on the donkey of light pollution falls short, as it is not be the only toxic beast in the pasture.  I grew up under Bortle poo and industrial stew. I would sooner point a finger(the finger) to the pharmaceutical plant, coal power plants, plastics plant, aluminum plant, crude oil refinery or nuclear power plant in my particular hometown neighborhood. If there’s a place with high light pollution without industrial waste in the air, I am unaware of it’s existence.  If it is light causing Alzheimer perhaps 70 some years of TV screens lit up in our homes should be a reasonable factor to compute into the equation. Since that is the light we stare at…..as I type this in on a lit screen. 
 

The circadian rhythm disruption plus industrial toxicity in the environment is probably closer to the mark. 

[Ron359]

Where there is an abundance of light pollution there’s also an abundance of industry.  Pinning the tail on the donkey of light pollution falls short, as it is not be the only toxic beast in the pasture.  I grew up under Bortle poo and industrial stew. I would sooner point a finger(the finger) to the pharmaceutical plant, coal power plants, plastics plant, aluminum plant, crude oil refinery or nuclear power plant in my particular hometown neighborhood. If there’s a place with high light pollution without industrial waste in the air, I am unaware of it’s existence.  If it is light causing Alzheimer perhaps 70 some years of TV screens lit up in our homes should be a reasonable factor to compute into the equation. Since that is the light we stare at…..as I type this in on a lit screen. 
 

The circadian rhythm disruption plus industrial toxicity in the environment is probably closer to the mark. 

What should be an obvious question of correlation comes to mind,  not addressed in the paper, is a small fact, that billions of people over >300,000 years, have spent about 12 hours a day in bright sunlight, much stronger and of course exposed to UV wavelengths far stronger than any TV screen or monitor, or indoor lighting.  So what could they 'add' to the exposure?  

 

Sunlight is not considered "pollution" cause its not "man-made" and 'taken for granted.'    If 10 or 12 hours of visible wavelengths of light exposure is going to 'set off' some chain of protein changes in the brain, everyone should 'suffer' from it.   But this is just 'pondering' one of a million possible causal questions.  

[BYoesle]

What should be an obvious question of correlation comes to mind,  not addressed in the paper, is a small fact, that billions of people over >300,000 years, have spent about 12 hours a day in bright sunlight, much stronger and of course exposed to UV wavelengths far stronger than any TV screen or monitor, or indoor lighting.  So what could they 'add' to the exposure?

 

Hmm 

 

We all know that correlation is not always indicative of causation. I don't think the study has out-right stated a causative relationship, but is indicative of correlation, and is worth noting and deserving of additional research.

 

The argument that millennia of sunlight itself is not being taken into account appears irrelevant.

 

The issue with ALAN is that it is becoming increasingly composed of blue wavelengths, and ALANs overall effect on melatonin and cortisol levels and the circadian rhythm consequences.

 

 

There already is evidence that disrupted sleep and night shift workers have increased correlations of diabetes and obesity, and their are others. An Alzheimer's correlation would also seem to be a relevant and legitimate metabolic & neurologic field to explore.