14 replies to this topic

[AbelPixels]

I've been dwelling in astrophotography for a bit, and I've now decided to buy a serious setup.
What I need help with is making sure I buy all the bits and pieces I need, and that everything I buy works together.

This is what I've decided on so far:

Main equipment:
- ZWO AM5N + tripod
- ZWO ASI533MC Pro
- WO Redcat 51 v3/WIFD
- ZWO Asiair Plus
- ZWO EAF

Accessories:
- Optolong L-Extreme/Ultimate
- ZWO Filter drawer
- Dew heater bands
- Power adapter for the mount (everything else can be powered through the Asiair which gets power from the mount, right?)


So, now I need your feedback/help:

- What else could I possibly need to get this setup going? Should I change any items?
- Any quality of life items I should consider adding?
- Are there any good filters for targets like galaxies that helps fight light pollution? Or should i shoot galaxies without filters? I shoot from Bortle 6. I heard narrowband is no good for galaxies.
- What size(s) should my filter(s) be?
- Do I need any adapters/rings/extenders etc. to achieve backfocus and/or make everything fit together? If yes, what kind and what sizes?
- Do I need/should I buy any extra cables? If yes, which cables?
- Should I consider buying a longer dovetail plate to balance everything better if needed?
- The camera and scope works nicely together, right? Also the camera should be nice for if I upgrade to a bigger refractor in the future, right?

I also realise the mount is probably overdimensioned, but I want something future proof.

Sorry for asking so much, but I have health issues that makes researching all the small details on my own very taxing. This also means I can't read every previous post on this forum, so all my questions are probably asked in here already. I very much appreciate any help.

[AbelPixels]

I totally forgot to ask which guiding scope I should get? I already have a ASI224MC, so if I can use that as a guiding cam that would be great. If not feel free to recommend a guiding camera.

[Tkall]

Guide scope and camera

telegizmos 365 cover

 

You are going to love that rig!

Edited by Tkall, 12 September 2024 - 01:04 PM.

[bobzeq25]

That's an excellent setup to learn DSO AP on.

What you need, additionally.

This book. DSO AP is quite unintuitive, knowledge is the antidote, and better gotten from books. This is most people's first choice, and I selected it for you from a BIG bookshelf. <smile>

https://www.amazon.c...d/dp/0999470949

A serious astrophotography processing program. I recommend starting with just one (instead of multiple) program that can do it all, calibrate/stack/process. The usual suspects are Astro Pixel Processor, Siril, and Pixinsight. I recommend APP. PI takes a lot of time to learn, and right now you need to spend that time on other things. I think APP is a better learning tool than Siril, but Siril is also a good choice.

Whatever you do. Do NOT let the trivial cost of a good program become a decision factor. Get what you think is best, ignore the trivial cost.

There are no really good filters for separating out light from galaxies and light pollution. A better approach is to use gradient reduction in processing. All 3 programs above have suitable GR tools. One of many reasons to NOT use a terrestrial photoediting program.

Below is a shot of M31 I took from a Bortle 7 backyard. No (not so) magic light pollution filter used, just gradient reduction. Click on the poor CN thumbnail for a good version, and details.

Figuring out what adapters you need is a basic skill you need to develop. All of us have a drawer full of them. <smile>

Edited by bobzeq25, 12 September 2024 - 01:54 PM.

[bbasiaga]

I would get the SBvony 30mm guide scope.  Its cheap and adequate for scopes up to at least 500mm in focal length.  

 

You can use your color camera, though its less than ideal.  But I'd try it.  The redcat will still require guiding due to the limits of the SW mount, but has a wide image scale so that will help reduce the tracking accuracy required.   If the color cam doesn't work, the ASI 120mm or 220mm are the two to look at. 

 

Brian

[Celerondon]

I've been dwelling in astrophotography for a bit, and I've now decided to buy a serious setup.
What I need help with is making sure I buy all the bits and pieces I need, and that everything I buy works together.

This is what I've decided on so far:

Main equipment:
- ZWO AM5N + tripod
- ZWO ASI533MC Pro
- WO Redcat 51 v3/WIFD
- ZWO Asiair Plus
- ZWO EAF

Accessories:
- Optolong L-Extreme/Ultimate
- ZWO Filter drawer
- Dew heater bands
- Power adapter for the mount (everything else can be powered through the Asiair which gets power from the mount, right?)


So, now I need your feedback/help:

- What else could I possibly need to get this setup going? Should I change any items?
- Any quality of life items I should consider adding?
- Are there any good filters for targets like galaxies that helps fight light pollution? Or should i shoot galaxies without filters? I shoot from Bortle 6. I heard narrowband is no good for galaxies.
- What size(s) should my filter(s) be?
- Do I need any adapters/rings/extenders etc. to achieve backfocus and/or make everything fit together? If yes, what kind and what sizes?
- Do I need/should I buy any extra cables? If yes, which cables?
- Should I consider buying a longer dovetail plate to balance everything better if needed?
- The camera and scope works nicely together, right? Also the camera should be nice for if I upgrade to a bigger refractor in the future, right?

I also realise the mount is probably overdimensioned, but I want something future proof.

Sorry for asking so much, but I have health issues that makes researching all the small details on my own very taxing. This also means I can't read every previous post on this forum, so all my questions are probably asked in here already. I very much appreciate any help.

Although some use AC adapters to power our rigs, many others use battery power because it offers certain advantages.  The LiFePO4 batteries for sale from Amazon and other sources offer flat voltage output during their discharge cycles coupled with excellent longevity.  Unlike lead-acid batteries and some other "Lithium-ion" chemistries, LiFePO4 batteries are not harmed by deep discharge cycles below 20% of their rated capacity.  If you check the specifications, you will find that many affordable LiFePO4 have great supply current specifications that enable them to supply ≥10A consistently.  This ample current supply will allow you to power your mount > ASIAIR > cameras and other equipment without worrying about multiple power sources.

 

Don

 

24Ah LiFePO4 Battery - $82.99

 

Airline Portable 12Ah LiFePO4 Battery - $59.99

 

Anderson Powerpole Adapter Cables

 

Powerpole Battery Cables

 

Inline Power Meter

 

[Enance42]

I totally forgot to ask which guiding scope I should get? I already have a ASI224MC, so if I can use that as a guiding cam that would be great. If not feel free to recommend a guiding camera.

If you want everything to match, get the William Optics Uniguide 32/120 guide scope (in Red of course) and the Cat Handle to put it on.

[AbelPixels]

That's an excellent setup to learn DSO AP on.

What you need, additionally.

This book. DSO AP is quite unintuitive, knowledge is the antidote, and better gotten from books. This is most people's first choice, and I selected it for you from a BIG bookshelf. <smile>

https://www.amazon.c...d/dp/0999470949

A serious astrophotography processing program. I recommend starting with just one (instead of multiple) program that can do it all, calibrate/stack/process. The usual suspects are Astro Pixel Processor, Siril, and Pixinsight. I recommend APP. PI takes a lot of time to learn, and right now you need to spend that time on other things. I think APP is a better learning tool than Siril, but Siril is also a good choice.

Whatever you do. Do NOT let the trivial cost of a good program become a decision factor. Get what you think is best, ignore the trivial cost.

There are no really good filters for separating out light from galaxies and light pollution. A better approach is to use gradient reduction in processing. All 3 programs above have suitable GR tools. One of many reasons to NOT use a terrestrial photoediting program.

Below is a shot of M31 I took from a Bortle 7 backyard. No (not so) magic light pollution filter used, just gradient reduction. Click on the poor CN thumbnail for a good version, and details.

Figuring out what adapters you need is a basic skill you need to develop. All of us have a drawer full of them. <smile>

Thanks! Useful information and great image of M31. I'll also probably order that book.

I do have a fair amount of Photoshop knowledge, and I've actually tried to process some DSO images earlier. But I'm looking forward to learn more. Perhaps I'll look into APP also. I know Photoshop has plugins to deal with gradient reduction too.

[AbelPixels]

I would get the SBvony 30mm guide scope. Its cheap and adequate for scopes up to at least 500mm in focal length.

You can use your color camera, though its less than ideal. But I'd try it. The redcat will still require guiding due to the limits of the SW mount, but has a wide image scale so that will help reduce the tracking accuracy required. If the color cam doesn't work, the ASI 120mm or 220mm are the two to look at.

Brian

Thanks. I'm planning to buy from AgenaAstro but i see that they don't sell SBvony, so maybe I can go with an equivalent guide scope from another brand. Looks like 30mm guide scopes are pretty standard?

If you say that my color camera is less than ideal, I'll just buy the ASI120mm in addition i think. Would suck to have my rig setup for the first time only to find out the guiding is bad or doesn't work...

[AbelPixels]

If you want everything to match, get the William Optics Uniguide 32/120 guide scope (in Red of course) and the Cat Handle to put it on.

Thanks for the tip. I noticed now that the guidescope you mentioned actually comes free with the newest Redcat, cool.
Do I need to buy that handle though, looks from the pictures like it's possible to mount directly on the Redcat already?

[AbelPixels]

Although some use AC adapters to power our rigs, many others use battery power because it offers certain advantages. The LiFePO4 batteries for sale from Amazon and other sources offer flat voltage output during their discharge cycles coupled with excellent longevity. Unlike lead-acid batteries and some other "Lithium-ion" chemistries, LiFePO4 batteries are not harmed by deep discharge cycles below 20% of their rated capacity. If you check the specifications, you will find that many affordable LiFePO4 have great supply current specifications that enable them to supply ≥10A consistently. This ample current supply will allow you to power your mount > ASIAIR > cameras and other equipment without worrying about multiple power sources.

Don

Appreciate the information. I'll always have the rig close to my house though, so wouldn't it be more convenient to power it from the AC sockets in my house (mains electricity or what you call it in English)?

Could it also be an idea to look for an AC adapter that provides more than the typical 5A I see most do? I can't see how batteries provide more consistent power than if i connect directly to my house AC power sockets with an AC adapter. Am I wrong here?

[Enance42]

Thanks for the tip. I noticed now that the guidescope you mentioned actually comes free with the newest Redcat, cool.
Do I need to buy that handle though, looks from the pictures like it's possible to mount directly on the Redcat already?

If the RedCat comes with the handle then you're good, I don't know if it does or not. If it doesn't then that will be something extra.

[bobzeq25]

Thanks! Useful information and great image of M31. I'll also probably order that book.

I do have a fair amount of Photoshop knowledge, and I've actually tried to process some DSO images earlier. But I'm looking forward to learn more. Perhaps I'll look into APP also. I know Photoshop has plugins to deal with gradient reduction too.

I like to quote other people, to show that this is not just my opinion.

"A HUGE second for AstroPixel Processor. Not only can it do everything you need as described in the last post, but it can do it SO much faster. I've used Photoshop for terrestrial photography, astrophotagraphy and imaging since version 2 (NOT CS2, the ORIGINAL version 2!) so I pretty much know my way around the software. Yet after starting with AstroPixel Processor a few months ago, I can do in 15 minutes semi-automatically what used to take hours doing by brute force in Photoshop. If you place any kind of value on your time, let alone the great results APP produces, it's a much better way to go."

"big breakthrough moments:

"1) Going from Deep Sky Stacker to Astro Pixel Processor: Higher quality stacks, more robust to short exposures or small FOV/low star count data, good easy to use light pollution removal and star based color calibration."

What's going on here? Astrophotography and terrestrial photography are very different. You can warp Photoshop to do astro, but what you're learning is how to warp Photoshop, NOT hot to process your data. These are two different things.

Photoshop is basically a dead end. Most people who stick with the hobby wind up using the much superior PixInsight instead. What you've learned by learning how to play games with Photoshop just doesn't transfer, you have to start over.

What you learn in APP mostly does transfer. It gives you a big leg up if (when?) you move to PI. Some final words.

"FWIW the 2 biggest "leaps" I had in astrophotography were going from DSS+ Photoshop to Astropixel processor (APP)- the results were night and day and the 2nd was getting an autofocuser"

"Wow, you weren't kidding when you said APP holds your hand."

<smile>

Minor point. The gradient reduction addon for Photoshop operates on stretched data. But the math of gradient reduction works better on linear data, before stretching. The difference is not huge, but it's significant. All astrophotography specific programs put gradient reduction operations early in the workflow before stretching.

Bottom line. This is a general principle, applies OFTEN in DSO AP. You'll have choices between using something designed by a professional for your specific need, and patching in something that ws never designed to be used for that need. The default option is to trust the professional, and use the tool designed for your need.

Another good example. You're getting a duoband filter specifically designed for a one shot color camera. There are also singleband filters, designed for use with mono cameras. You're best off using the filters that the filter engineer designed for your type of camera.

Edited by bobzeq25, 12 September 2024 - 04:31 PM.

[bobzeq25]

Appreciate the information. I'll always have the rig close to my house though, so wouldn't it be more convenient to power it from the AC sockets in my house (mains electricity or what you call it in English)?

Could it also be an idea to look for an AC adapter that provides more than the typical 5A I see most do? I can't see how batteries provide more consistent power than if i connect directly to my house AC power sockets with an AC adapter. Am I wrong here?

Both using AC and small converters, and just using a 12V battery are decent options. Many are happy with either.

When I built my small observatory, going to battery, charged by solar, was simply a lot easier than dragging extension cords out (which I did at first).

A word of advice about CN advice. People often are committed to their personal choices. Sometimes that leads to them stating those personal choices as if they were universally good for everyone.

Watch out. <smile>

Again, this is why I often use quotes from others.

Edited by bobzeq25, 12 September 2024 - 04:19 PM.

[AbelPixels]

Both using AC and small converters, and just using a 12V battery are decent options. Many are happy with either.

When I built my small observatory, going to battery, charged by solar, was simply a lot easier than dragging extension cords out (which I did at first).

A word of advice about CN advice. People often are committed to their personal choices. Sometimes that leads to them stating those personal choices as if they were universally good for everyone.

Watch out. <smile>

Again, this is why I often use quotes from others.

Okay, I'm sold. I will definitely check out APP for processing. PI seems very advanced, maybe I'll be brave enough somewhere down the road. Very stoked to get started and learn stuff.

Other than that, thank you for providing solid information and advice. I also posted on other forums so I feel like I've gotten enough input to know what I need to buy now. It's gonna be a big order...