29 replies to this topic

[Tonk]

BBC News article:

The new generation of StarLink satellites are now blinding radio telescopes - "The amount of radiation emitted exceeds regulations set by the industry body the International Telecommunications Union"

https://www.bbc.co.u...es/cy4dnr8zemgo

Edited by Tonk, 18 September 2024 - 11:29 AM.

[aatt]

When is this guy going to Mars? Can’t happen soon enough.

[SkyWarrior1990]

They'll always attack the people who don't conform to their tribe👌 State run space programs are just as guilty (more) of cluttering the skies (they clutter the ocean too) including NASA. Elon Musk will go down as possibly the greatest visionary of our time and right now is outdoing our governments space program so of course the politicians attack dogs will come after him in order to misinform the public and turn them against someone who is embarrassing them in a lot of ways☕️😏

[deSitter]

They'll always attack the people who don't conform to their tribe State run space programs are just as guilty (more) of cluttering the skies (they clutter the ocean too) including NASA. Elon Musk will go down as possibly the greatest visionary of our time and right now is outdoing our governments space program so of course the politicians attack dogs will come after him in order to misinform the public and turn them against someone who is embarrassing them in a lot of ways☕

It's a cult. He has no knowledge of engineering or science at all. He's living off corporate welfare more or less. His house of cards will inevitably collapse.

 

-drl

[Ron359]

They'll always attack the people who don't conform to their tribe State run space programs are just as guilty (more) of cluttering the skies (they clutter the ocean too) including NASA. Elon Musk will go down as possibly the greatest visionary of our time and right now is outdoing our governments space program so of course the politicians attack dogs will come after him in order to misinform the public and turn them against someone who is embarrassing them in a lot of ways☕

Excuse me,  but NASA nor any other of the national space programs have no plans to launch a hundred thousand satellites that provide an easily replaceable useless service of fast downloading 'cat-videos' for the uber-wealthy on their yachts and RVs or 5th home in a remote rain forest.  

 

A hundred thousand Muskelites and similar,  will destroy ground-based (both radio and visible band) Astronomy in less than 10 yrs. and severely damage others access like NASA  to Earth orbit for science satellites.    

Edited by Ron359, 18 September 2024 - 12:45 PM.

[Tonk]

The radio item on BBC Radio 4 a few minutes ago had an astronomer telling us the brightness of Starlink satellite radio signal is equivalent to a full moon rising for an astrophotographer trying to image a >10 mag DSO - except there are thousands of "full moons" rising throughout the night and day for radio astronomers

Edited by Tonk, 19 September 2024 - 01:57 AM.

[Forward Scatter]

After all, Elon was "confident" back in 2016 that SpaceX would have landed on Mars by 2024. He still has a couple of months to complete that goal and prove all the haters wrong. Just you wait!

 

Seriously, with all the plans for other sat constellations (hundreds of thousands), I'm waiting to see the impact on the funding and approval future ground-based observatories. If the sat and radio pollution makes it difficult or impossible to perform observations, why does it make sense to fund or even continue funding observatories?

 

Vera Rubin, closed!

Subaru, shuttered!

ELF, garage sale!

And so on.

 

Younger professional astronomers will have to work at McD's or as barristas, just like English majors. Those others, well, there is panhandling at intersections or driving for Uber in their Teslas. 

[Astrola72]

Um, Elon Musk is "outdoing" NASA?

 

Currently operational:

 

Chandra X-ray Observatory
Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope
Hubble Space Telescope
IXPE(Imaging X-ray Polarimetry Explorer)
James Webb Space Telescope
Neil Gehrels Swift Laboratory
NICER (Neutron star Interior Composition Explorer)
NuSTAR (Nuclear Spectroscopic Telescope Array)
TESS (Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite)
WISE/NEOWISE (Near-Earth Object Wide-field Infrared survey Explorer)

 

Mars Rovers Curiosity and Perseverance, still operating.

 

Three Mars orbiters still operating

 

Six solar probes still operating

 

To name a few.

 

Joe

[Tonk]

Seriously, with all the plans for other sat constellations (hundreds of thousands), I'm waiting to see the impact on the funding and approval future ground-based observatories. If the sat and radio pollution makes it difficult or impossible to perform observations, why does it make sense to fund or even continue funding observatories?

Well these satellite constellations need to turn a profit - if they don't they will eventually deorbit and burn up. Thats our hope!

[Purritolover]

Also worth noting that I have anecdotally noticed the amount of satellite trails in my images going up an insane amount recently. It's not an issue with regards to final result, since after stacking and calibration they go away, but it's not at all uncommon for a 2 or 3 minute sub to have tens of satellite trails. Previously, I could get completely clean subs maybe 30 or 40% of the time. Starlink is everywhere, 60% of all orbiting satellites are Starlink, which means that the amount of satellites pre-starlink has more than doubled. Additionally, a large chunk of those satellites are geostationary, which don't impact almost any of my images ever since I'm at 36 degree latitude and it's very rare that I'm imaging in the geostationary "ring". Given that, I would say musks satellites have tripled the amount of satellites I regularly see in images, and I cannot imagine how bad it must be for radio telescopes. Radio telescopes cannot really "calibrate out" satellites like we can, I think the full moon analogy is very good. If Musk launched thousands of full moons into the sky by sheer carelessness and disregard for regulations, then we would be up in arms too.

[SkyWarrior1990]

Yeah yeah yeah and NASAs doing so good that Elon has to rescue their astronauts they left stranded up there for a year😅👌 Lotta Elon Derangement Syndrome (eds) going on in this thread lol He's making Space Great Again,, embrace it☕️😏

[Purritolover]

And this whole "nasa didn't do that, just the company they contracted to build their rockets" lol listen to yourself.

If you wanna run on that logic, then SpaceX hasn't done anything either since they got their NASA contract in 2014. It was Boeing engineers and Boeings work, they just got some NASA money. Elon has done nothing for aerospace in years, he just employs people who know what they're doing. All he does is pretend he knows anything about engineering and rocketry because that's what sells. He has a bachelors of arts in physics and a bachelors of science in economics, and that is as far as his knowledge goes. If you need proof of his failure to understand economics, look at the success of twitter before and after he bought it.

[SkyWarrior1990]

I know you people on here are smarter than most... but envy looks ugly on anybody. Just keep that in mind🫵😉🎸

[Napp]

Moderator here.  Either stop the bickering and play nice or this thread will be  'd. 

[BYoesle]

The issue, just as with visible light, is that all wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation can be a form of environmental pollution affecting science data gathering - this time for radio wavelengths.

 

Take the personalities out of it and instead address the fundamental core issue of seemingly unregulated and/or under-regulated electromagnetic space-environment pollution.

 

If the new satellites have violated the established rules and standards, what's the penalty, and what's the remedy?

Edited by BYoesle, 18 September 2024 - 05:14 PM.

[Napp]

Folks this is it.   I had to remove more posts not abiding by the TOS.  One more off topic post about Musk instead of Starlink and I will lock this topic.  This is your final warning. 

[Forward Scatter]

Personally, I predict that in 10 years, ground-based astronomy (both amateur and pro) will pretty much be limited to looking at Super Moons^tm

[jimeh]

Personally, I predict that in 10 years, ground-based astronomy (both amateur and pro) will pretty much be limited to looking at Super Moons^tm

I think that's an unlikely prediction.

 

It is likely that ground based astronomy will evolve into something that minimizes the effects of light pollution and radio interference. The $500 seestar 50 is evidence of that evolution, so is the advent of NVDs.

 

I'm excited for the future of amateur astronomy. At some point, I think amateur astronomers and astrophotographers will be purchasing time using privately owned space based telescopes.

 

Also, dark sky preservation is something that is starting to catch on with the general public. Just look at what Oregon is doing.

 

Lastly, starlink may be annoying to some, but you'd be surprised at how many non astronomers get excited when they see these sky trains. These are people who otherwise never look up. There's value in that

Edited by jimeh, 19 September 2024 - 01:52 PM.

[Forward Scatter]

I think that's an unlikely prediction.

 

It is likely that ground based astronomy will evolve into something that minimizes the effects of light pollution and radio interference. The $500 seestar 50 is evidence of that evolution, so is the advent of NVDs.

 

I'm excited for the future of amateur astronomy. At some point, I think amateur astronomers and astrophotographers will be purchasing time using privately owned space based telescopes.

 

Also, dark sky preservation is something that is starting to catch on with the general public. Just look at what Oregon is doing.

 

Lastly, starlink may be annoying to some, but you'd be surprised at how many non astronomers get excited when they see these sky trains. These are people who otherwise never look up. There's value in that

Hi Jim

My prediction was rather tongue-in-cheek and hyperbolic as in this last spring/summer, more than 70% of my subs have at least one sat trail. And it's expected to get worse. At some point, even pixel rejection has limits. 

[deSitter]

Personally, I predict that in 10 years, ground-based astronomy (both amateur and pro) will pretty much be limited to looking at Super Moons^tm

 

Don't forget the blood.

 

Hilarious comment

 

-drl
 

[SkyWarrior1990]

Lastly, starlink may be annoying to some, but you'd be surprised at how many non astronomers get excited when they see these sky trains. These are people who otherwise never look up. There's value in that

The first time i saw starlink sattelites i emailed my city council representative because i thought the local military base was conducting drone flyovers over my town😅😅

[Dangerdan]

If the OP wanted to liven things up a little, he succeeded.

[Forward Scatter]

On a very related subject, there is a tech company, Reflect Orbital that wants to place mirrors (flat) in orbit to beam the sun's light down to paying customers at night so they may power their solar panels 24/7 and light up their property. Their videos and CGI are a real hoot. Every other word out of the CEO's mouth in his videos is "like,....."

 

"Reflect Orbital is developing technology to sell sunlight to those who need it. We imagine a future where sunlight continues powering solar farms and providing lighting after the sun sets. We’re a small team of engineers who make progress by building things quickly and iteratively. Time is our greatest constraint. Join us!"

[mountain monk]

Well, the science tells us that eventually we will have another Carrington Event, or worse. That would certainly reduce light pollution, not to mention reducing the number of satellites. 
 

Dark skies.

 

Jack

[deSitter]

On a very related subject, there is a tech company, Reflect Orbital that wants to place mirrors (flat) in orbit to beam the sun's light down to paying customers at night so they may power their solar panels 24/7 and light up their property. Their videos and CGI are a real hoot. Every other word out of the CEO's mouth in his videos is "like,....."

 

"Reflect Orbital is developing technology to sell sunlight to those who need it. We imagine a future where sunlight continues powering solar farms and providing lighting after the sun sets. We’re a small team of engineers who make progress by building things quickly and iteratively. Time is our greatest constraint. Join us!"

This is surely the most idiotic idea I've ever heard

 

-drl