35 replies to this topic

[FC1963]

I would like to have advice from telescope users.

I am planning to buy a new telescope but there are so many choices out there that it's not evident to choose.

 

Here are my criteria for the telescope selection:

 

1) It's portable. (It could be detached in several pieces or not)

2) It has a wide field of view that I could see the entire Andromeda galaxy.

3) The optics are good enough to do astrophotography and easily photograph the entire Andromeda galaxy.

4) Good enough to do visual observation of planets, nebulas, galaxies & etc.

 

Answers are much appreciated.

[tcifani]

Hi FC1963,

First, a couple of questions to help answer your question:

 

1. What kind of telescopes (if any) do you currently own or use?

 

2. What's your budget?

 

Thanks

[bobzeq25]

You want a mythical scope that can do it all. Everyone does. Too bad it doesn't exist.

For visual you need a big scope to gather a lot of light for your short exposure eyes.

Such a scope makes learning deep space imaging VERY hard. Particularly if it's on the standard mount generally sold with such scopes.

For imaging DSOs the scope isn't that important, the big deal for long exposure camera is keeping on target with the mount.

Bottom line. You need to decide what is most important to you, and get a good scope and mount for that. The "do everything" setup is a unicorn. It does not exist.

You could come close with this combination of 2 scopes.

A 6-8 inch Dobsonian for visual. A small refractor on a good mount for learning DSO imaging. Do not skimp on the mount, as so many beginners do, because they don't realize how important it is.

Neither is ideal for observing tiny planets. You'd need yet another scope for that.

One simple fact. Andromeda is hundreds of times larger than Jupiter.

[Keith Rivich]

I would like to have advice from telescope users.

I am planning to buy a new telescope but there are so many choices out there that it's not evident to choose.

 

Here are my criteria for the telescope selection:

 

1) It's portable. (It could be detached in several pieces or not)

2) It has a wide field of view that I could see the entire Andromeda galaxy.

3) The optics are good enough to do astrophotography and easily photograph the entire Andromeda galaxy.

4) Good enough to do visual observation of planets, nebulas, galaxies & etc.

 

Answers are much appreciated.

You need two, perhaps three, telescopes to check off all four boxes.

 

6" f/4   #1 and #2

Any decent fast refractor for #3

10" and up reflector for #4

Edited by Keith Rivich, 19 September 2024 - 05:34 PM.

[TOMDEY]

Yep - what you describe can't all be achieved with one scope.     Tom

[Dave Mitsky]

As has already been mentioned, such a telescope does not exist, nor could it.

You may want to consider at least an 8" Dob, although a 10" would be better for DSO observing, and a ZWO Seestar S50 "smart telescope" for EAA/imaging.

[FC1963]

Hi FC1963,

First, a couple of questions to help answer your question:

 

1. What kind of telescopes (if any) do you currently own or use?

 

2. What's your budget?

 

Thanks

I have a C11 on a CGE mount and 127mm Maksutov on a Celestron SE mount. My budget for the next telescope is between $1000 and $2000.

[FC1963]

You want a mythical scope that can do it all. Everyone does. Too bad it doesn't exist.

For visual you need a big scope to gather a lot of light for your short exposure eyes.

Such a scope makes learning deep space imaging VERY hard. Particularly if it's on the standard mount generally sold with such scopes.

For imaging DSOs the scope isn't that important, the big deal for long exposure camera is keeping on target with the mount.

Bottom line. You need to decide what is most important to you, and get a good scope and mount for that. The "do everything" setup is a unicorn. It does not exist.

You could come close with this combination of 2 scopes.

A 6-8 inch Dobsonian for visual. A small refractor on a good mount for learning DSO imaging. Do not skimp on the mount, as so many beginners do, because they don't realize how important it is.

Neither is ideal for observing tiny planets. You'd need yet another scope for that.

One simple fact. Andromeda is hundreds of times larger than Jupiter.

I was thinking the same thing but was hoping that someone would come with a solution. From most answers so for, I need to have a different telescope for every specific use.

Edited by FC1963, 19 September 2024 - 06:33 PM.

[FC1963]

You need two, perhaps three, telescopes to check off all four boxes.

 

6" f/4   #1 and #2

Any decent fast refractor for #3

10" and up reflector for #4

Looks very much the way to go.

[12BH7]

You need two, perhaps three, telescopes to check off all four boxes.

 

6" f/4   #1 and #2

Any decent fast refractor for #3

10" and up reflector for #4

Yup, what he said.

[12BH7]

If you are new to astronomy you really should try to find a scope that is more versatile. This way you and find out what you like and what direction you want to concentrate on. Something nice and easy like a 5-6 SCT or a 80mm short refractor. It does a bit of everything.

 

Something that hasn't been mentioned here so far. If you really want to do astrophotography, then the mount is MORE important than the telescope. 

[Keith Rivich]

I have a C11 on a CGE mount and 127mm Maksutov on a Celestron SE mount. My budget for the next telescope is between $1000 and $2000.

Nice scope. The 11" checks box #4

 

What is your next priority?

[Kitfox]

If your budget is VERY flexible, I would argue you can do it, but you will be seeing yellow…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

…consider the Tak Epsilon 130. Add the 1.5 extender and you have a really nice visual scope. And for imaging?  A 5.9 degree flat field.

 

No one talks about these for visual use, but I have an older 160 and 200 and they are amazing visually. These absolutely love short focal length eyepieces. And the 130 fits in a small space (glove box?) and it’s like the mid-sized strain waves are made for them.  Alas, like all Taks, they don’t come cheap.  But they are a purchase not many regret…and probably come as close to checking all your boxes as any single current-production scope…

Edited by Kitfox, 19 September 2024 - 07:51 PM.

[TOMDEY]

Even the professionals have sought this Holy Grail ~Does Everything~ viewer/imager and at best come up with something that does everything poorly, and nothing well. I've personally seen such programs ~promise everything~, suck up money like a firehose, and finally get shut down by the sugar daddy --- still kicking and screaming "more time more money" --- as they get shown the door.    Tom

[bobzeq25]

I was thinking the same thing but was hoping that someone would come with a solution. From most answers so for, I need to have a different telescope for every specific use.

There is a good solution.

There is no "one telescope" solution.

You have a C11 on a CGE. That's an excellent scope for planetary and lunar viewing and imaging. I know, it's not portable. I'll have a portable solution at the end of this.

You want to learn how to image DSOs. You need a proper setup for that. Which is WELL established: good mount, small refractor.

The mount is the most important thing. About 50% of your total budget should go into the mount. $1000 is not really enough for a proper mount. BUT, that's OK. You can save what you need to save ON THE SCOPE.

A CEM26 or a GEM28 is about $1500. This scope is $419.

https://astronomics....l-53-ed-doublet

You'll need a camera. If you have a DSLR that's a Canon or a Nikon (software compatibility issue) it will work fine. Otherwise this will work OK. $600.

https://www.zwoastro...t/asi585mc-pro/

All that (and you'll also need an autoguiding setup, about $300) too expensive for you?

This is the economical workaround. The key is shortening the focal length. A lot. $500 if you have a DSLR, $1000 if you don't.



Many have started out in DSO imaging with a setup like that. At the end I've attached an image I did with a similar setup. Click on the poor thumbnail for a good version, and details.

Portable planetary imaging is tough. This could do it. Not as well as the C11, obviously.

https://www.celestro...rized-telescope

All that is good information about what you need for what task. There are obviously alternatives, but those are representative.

This noted astronomer is telling you what it takes to do everything that you want to do. Note the part about patience and time. You'll also need an abundance of those.

https://www.youtube....h?v=XZGYYDvZnpg

The pretty pictures do not come easy. Or cheap. <smile>

Edited by bobzeq25, 19 September 2024 - 08:27 PM.

[Dave Mitsky]

A small, fast refractor is going to be necessary to accomplish #2, preferably an ED model.

[Robert7980]

What telescope to pick indeed… That is the question.

 

I’ve got 6 and still have gaps in covering everything. 

 

For beginning astrophotography a high quality small refractor 80mm or so can not be beat. 

 

For high quality visual observations, well for me that’s a 16 inch dob or bigger 1 meter is better. My eyes don’t get much shock and awe from anything with less aperture, especially after 40… Which is why I pretty much stick to EAA and photography. The camera is what makes the whole thing interesting for me. If I do live visual it’s still on a screen for the most part. 
 

Edited by Robert7980, 19 September 2024 - 09:43 PM.

[Spaceman 56]

I have a C11 on a CGE mount and 127mm Maksutov on a Celestron SE mount. My budget for the next telescope is between $1000 and $2000.

well it seems you have visual covered with those long focal length devices.

 

get an 80mm Refractor if you want to start imaging.

 

something around 500mm of focal length is a good starting spot. 

[Keith Rivich]

You know what folks? I think we all jumped the gun a bit on our comments. The OP has only two absolutes:

Visually seeing M31 in its entirety imaging M31 in its entirety.

 

The other two points:

Portability and suitable for general observing are a bit subjective. 

 

My 6" f/4 fits all four points. 

   It's very portable. 

   I can see all of M31 from a dark site (in the city M31 is quite small)

   According to image size calculators I can easily fit M31 on a suitable chip

   I can and have seen all the planets (except Pluto) plus hundreds of deep sky objects of all kinds. 

 

While the scope is not optimal for point #4 it does get the job done. So, from my experience a 6" f/4 reflector is the "one scope" to fit your needs.

Edited by Keith Rivich, 19 September 2024 - 10:38 PM.

[ayadai]

I would like to have advice from telescope users.
I am planning to buy a new telescope but there are so many choices out there that it's not evident to choose.
 
Here are my criteria for the telescope selection:
 
1) It's portable. (It could be detached in several pieces or not)
2) It has a wide field of view that I could see the entire Andromeda galaxy.
3) The optics are good enough to do astrophotography and easily photograph the entire Andromeda galaxy.
4) Good enough to do visual observation of planets, nebulas, galaxies & etc.
 
Answers are much appreciated.

Maybe I'm missing something that others have seen, but a 400-500mm ~f6 triplet or (preferably) petzval would:

1. Be portable;
2. Have a wide field of view;
3. Have optics (more than) good enough for astrophotography and with a reducer, image Andromeda;
4. Be adequate for visual.

 

I regularly observe planets, nebulas and galaxies with an f5 500mm acromat and find it quite adequate. Maybe I have low standards for visual?

Edited by ayadai, 19 September 2024 - 10:43 PM.

[Robert7980]

You know what folks? I think we all jumped the gun a bit on our comments. The OP has only two absolutes:

Visually seeing M31 in its entirety imaging M31 in its entirety.

 

The other two points:

Portability and suitable for general observing are a bit subjective. 

 

My 6" f/4 fits all four points. 

   It's very portable. 

   I can see all of M31 from a dark site (in the city M31 is quite small)

   According to image size calculators I can easily fit M31 on a suitable chip

   I can and have seen all the planets (except Pluto) plus hundreds of deep sky objects of all kinds. 

 

While the scope is not optimal for point #4 it does get the job done. So, from my experience a 6" f/4 reflector is the "one scope" to fit your needs.

I guess it depends on what one expects, to me a 6 inch newt doesn’t check any of the boxes very well.. and will take quite a bit of fussing with to get tuned up enough for astrophotography.

 

I assume the OP is looking for reasonably high quality or higher than just basic performance. If that weren’t the goal then any scope under about 500mm is general purpose enough. With good enough eyes the planets are easy (as bright dots), details on them not so much, and what makes a scope that can reveal details on planets good also makes it very difficult to use for photography. 
 

So I don’t think we missed much… I wish one scope would cover it all… and I guess it would if you’re willing to heavily compromise quite a few things to the point it does almost nothing well. 
 

So maybe, I think the goal and expectations need to be more defined… as in splitting the rings of Saturn or just seeing a dot with ears.. Seeing structure in nebula and galaxies or just seeing a small gray fuzzy smear… There are huge expectation differences I think, and your right, we don’t know the expectations so maybe a 6 inch f/4 would do.. 

Edited by Robert7980, 19 September 2024 - 11:33 PM.

[EdDixon]

Forgetting the issue of one size fits all (it really doesn't exist), there are a few basic things needed to get started.

 

Telescope
Mount to hold it
Camera to take pictures
Computer to control and/or process images.

 

Shorter focal length refractor telescopes are the easiest to begin with.  They tend to have a wider field of view and can produce quite good results.

 

The Earth rotates, so a mount needs to compensate for that.  The best are equatorial and the lower cost option a rotator mount.

 

The two camera area options are basic DSLR cameras and dedicated astro cameras.

 

A computer is usually used to control the telescope during astrophotography sessions.  Some models of DSLR cameras have built in processing for this, but astro cameras do not.  The most common units here are laptops and miniPC computers.

 

Cost is an open ended area.  Scopes range from a few hundred to tens of thousands.  Mounts, cameras, and computers are in a similar range.

 

The lowest cost route to get started might involve a basic DSLR camera and a rotator mount.  Rotator mounts start at about $500 and good used Nikon models are a few hundred.  You can get fairly decent results with kit lens that comes with the camera.

 

Moving into the equatorial mount category gets more costly fairly quickly.  Lower cost EQ mounts start at about $1000.  However the common view of most in the AP area is that the three most important things are:  mount, mount, mount.  Expect a range starting at 2K for a good EQ mount.

 

A reasonable cost 70-80mm refractor telescope is a good place to start.  These start about $500-$800.

 

One can use a DSLR with a scope/mount combo, but most prefer the dedicated approach.  ZWO has astro cameras from about $300 up.  Their newer ASI585MC Pro is a good camera that is also cooled.

 

The easiest computer approach is a Windows based laptop. I started with this but today I use miniPCs instead.  After I set things up and align, I move inside (home or car) and control all from there.  Doing this does involve more gear to do WiFI things.

 

AP is a very rewarding hobby, but tends to be a never ending one for many.  For most, starting simple and working out from there is the best approach.

[bobzeq25]

You know what folks? I think we all jumped the gun a bit on our comments. The OP has only two absolutes:
Visually seeing M31 in its entirety imaging M31 in its entirety.
 
The other two points:
Portability and suitable for general observing are a bit subjective. 
 
My 6" f/4 fits all four points. 
   It's very portable. 
   I can see all of M31 from a dark site (in the city M31 is quite small)
   According to image size calculators I can easily fit M31 on a suitable chip
   I can and have seen all the planets (except Pluto) plus hundreds of deep sky objects of all kinds. 
 
While the scope is not optimal for point #4 it does get the job done. So, from my experience a 6" f/4 reflector is the "one scope" to fit your needs.

What mount?

[EricSi]

2) It has a wide field of view that I could see the entire Andromeda galaxy.

 

Spoiler alert: you will not be able to see the entire Andromeda galaxy visually, unless you have a truly huge telescope. Even with my 18", at a very dark sky site, I can't see the whole thing visually. What you see is the bright core of the galaxy -- very worthwhile, but it's not the whole thing.

[rfcooley]

I would like to have advice from telescope users.

I am planning to buy a new telescope but there are so many choices out there that it's not evident to choose.

 

Here are my criteria for the telescope selection:

 

1) It's portable. (It could be detached in several pieces or not)

2) It has a wide field of view that I could see the entire Andromeda galaxy.

3) The optics are good enough to do astrophotography and easily photograph the entire Andromeda galaxy.

4) Good enough to do visual observation of planets, nebulas, galaxies & etc.

 

Answers are much appreciated.

Wow, So would I!  I'd have a lot more space in my workshop!

 

See my signature I could meet all of your criteria with what is there,one way or another. If I missed something I have access to Tak C400, C14 Hyper Star and a Tak BRC250 in a million dollar observatory to remedy my quest. (The importance of belonging.)

 

I think the best answer for you would be a 8" SCT w/6.3 reducer and an 80mm Triplet refractor and a good mid-range mount something around 2K or better and better is always better. A good selection of 3 to 6 mid to high end eyepieces with Barlow and a DSLR and dedicated AP Camera. With this set up and a very steep learning curve you should be able satisfy your criteria.

 

However, if you are new to this endeavor a good 8 to 10 inch Dobs is easiest or 8" SCT to learn with until you have a better understanding of what you want to focus on. Both are transportable, the DOB is 2 pieces, the SCT a few more with a good mount.

 

There are a couple of unknowns,

1. How much experience do you have?
2. Do you know the Sky?
3. Do you have good basic visual observation skills?
4. Do you understand such terms as Seeing and Transparency and how it can affect what objects you are looking for?
5. Do you have a local astronomy club that you can become a member of? I highly recommend this before making any purchases.

All of these question will help determine what to purchase. If these questions are all solid in understanding than 8" SCT w/.63 reducer and a 80mm Triplet refractor and good mid-range mount will work. If these questions are not solidly understood than I would recommend a pair of 10x50 Binoculars and a 8" Dobsonian, what you can see with this combination  can keep you busy for a couple of years at least. Seek out a local club where hands on experience can be gained and questions answered!!!   I can not stress this enough.

 

Good Books, following forum discussion, membership an organization or attending star parties are all good preliminaries before making purchases. Start out with what is easiest and work your way towards your aspirations. Amateur Astronomy is a wonderful endeavor and a roller coaster ride through great successes, some failures and some occasional "Oh crap!"   You are about to enter into the brotherhood of armature astronomers where we are either slow learners or of questionable sanity!  I've been doing this for nearly 6 decades and I still haven't learned "everything" and sometimes I think I have learned "nothing"!

 

There has been a lot of good advice offered on this thread and many opinions by experienced observers. You have chosen a good place to start. But, ultimately it comes down to what experiences you are looking for.  What works best for you. If you attend star parties or club activities you get a chance for hands on experience without laying out a lot of $$. Typically, such organizations have members that have moved on to their next level and will sell their equipment for very reasonable prices. We don't sell junk!  We sell stuff that has worked well for us and should work well for you. Should you have questions they are happy to supply the answers. Should you need advice in purchasing new equipment they are willing to help. As I mentioned in the beginning this is the importance of belonging.

 

Clear Skies, Never Lose the Wonder,

RF