432 replies to this topic

[LDW47]

These are two excellent features from the previous S50 update that I hope will be included in the S30: the ability to add direct coordinates and to set parameters in tonight's observations.

 

One would assume that their software and app are quite similar, if not identical.

Why do you need co ordinates, the SS finds the object every time, just punch in a name, don't use a list of objects, if it can't then probably the object is not worth while for various reasons, thats what I have found. And as to a timer, just set your alarm clock, get up and do it yourself, thats what I do, lol.  PS:  But to be honest I didn't think you could set timing parameters right now.  Something new ?

Edited by LDW47, 05 October 2024 - 09:53 AM.

[NC Startrekker]

I am talking astronomy learning ie conventional telescopes vs smart scopes, how they are used relating to the locating of dso's in those dark nite skys. Not necessarily from a library lending point of view but from a younger age, the younger the better and my point is a smart scope will never be thee tool to teach star hopping like a telescope before EAA. Just a point of view from both ends of this stick, thats it, thats all.

Wholeheartedly agree with you here. 

[GSBass]

Agree, manual coordinate entry has always been a feature that I think should have always been there, glad they are doing this. It’s important for creative framing, new super nova and comet discovery that have not made it in to the data base etc etc. it’s just a nice feature

These are two excellent features from the previous S50 update that I hope will be included in the S30: the ability to add direct coordinates and to set parameters in tonight's observations.

 

One would assume that their software and app are quite similar, if not identical.

[saga01]

Why do you need co ordinates, the SS finds the object every time, just punch in a name, don't use a list of objects, if it can't then probably the object is not worth while for various reasons, thats what I have found. And as to a timer, just set your alarm clock, get up and do it yourself, thats what I do, lol.  PS:  But to be honest I didn't think you could set timing parameters right now.  Something new ?

  There are objects that are not in the database that I find extremely interesting and want to see even if it’s only a faint dot on my iPad. For example, in one of the forums there was a discussion about the Andromeda Parachute (quad lensed quasar). I used the grid to locate it (before the coordinate feature was added).  And after a few minutes there it was a faint little dot on the screen, photons that had traveled almost 11 billion years to end up in my little seestar. 
 

  Smart scope might not teach start hopping, but they can bring plenty of joy and wonder to new and old stargazers. 

[Regulus 1.36]

Why do you need co ordinates, the SS finds the object every time, just punch in a name, don't use a list of objects, if it can't then probably the object is not worth while for various reasons, thats what I have found. And as to a timer, just set your alarm clock, get up and do it yourself, thats what I do, lol.  PS:  But to be honest I didn't think you could set timing parameters right now.  Something new ?

So far, I haven't used it but it's there. 

 

For the tonight best parameter settings, for myself, it's to confirm a clear line of sight over any trees, buildings in any direction at the time I'm interested. Seems good for planning one's future view session if there's a restricted view. 

 

At Afton Forest Preserve I have a Southerly view.

At my friends farm I have a Westerly view.

At home I'm very limited. 40 degrees to clear tree line, 0 - 270 view angle. 

 

However, I might have a new dark site with wide open 360 with only a small tree line. I'll need to ask permission to use the property.

 

Yes, it's not an alarm clock. 

[GSBass]

So based on Mr Wens photo, has anyone calculated fov for comparison to s50 and others? I did find it surprising it’s not a widefield, makes me think zwo’s primary purpose may be to reduce the entry level price point

Edited by GSBass, 05 October 2024 - 10:59 AM.

[eyeoftexas]

https://www.cloudyni...ent/?p=13723735

[bradhaak]

Indeed, my sole critique of smart scopes is the lack of substantial learning involved. Once one has captured a plethora of images, what remains? Hence, I advocate for the practice of EAA, as it more closely resembles visual astronomy while trying to recommend a book or two. 

 

Smart scopes are establishing themselves as a staple, and we are the stewards of this hobby. 

A large part of me jumped in with agreement to this because it's how I learned fifty years ago. Oh God, that was fifty years ago? Crap, I'm old...

 

But then I looked at it again.

 

Smart scopes provide a new gateway into our hobby that will attract bunches of new participants. Some will fall in love, jump in with both feet (or maybe eyes), and move into big push-to Dobs, conventional SCTs, or high-end astrophotography. A few may even make it a career. But without the smart scopes, they wouldn't have ever found their way here. Some of them will learn the sky, but the folks that only use their Seestar S50 mark 3 or Dwarf 8 so they can post cool pictures on Faceboo0k or Instagram are still learning to love the night sky. And even if their only knowledge of where objects are, is roughly where the scope is pointing or how long it takes to traverse the angles from one place to another, that's okay.

 

I figured out a long time ago that I can't dictate how other folks should enjoy a hobby. As long as they enjoy it, that's good enough.

[LDW47]

  There are objects that are not in the database that I find extremely interesting and want to see even if it’s only a faint dot on my iPad. For example, in one of the forums there was a discussion about the Andromeda Parachute (quad lensed quasar). I used the grid to locate it (before the coordinate feature was added).  And after a few minutes there it was a faint little dot on the screen, photons that had traveled almost 11 billion years to end up in my little seestar. 
 

  Smart scope might not teach start hopping, but they can bring plenty of joy and wonder to new and old stargazers. 

I say whatever you think, me I just look up and star hop, eh.

[LDW47]

A large part of me jumped in with agreement to this because it's how I learned fifty years ago. Oh God, that was fifty years ago? Crap, I'm old...

 

But then I looked at it again.

 

Smart scopes provide a new gateway into our hobby that will attract bunches of new participants. Some will fall in love, jump in with both feet (or maybe eyes), and move into big push-to Dobs, conventional SCTs, or high-end astrophotography. A few may even make it a career. But without the smart scopes, they wouldn't have ever found their way here. Some of them will learn the sky, but the folks that only use their Seestar S50 mark 3 or Dwarf 8 so they can post cool pictures on Faceboo0k or Instagram are still learning to love the night sky. And even if their only knowledge of where objects are, is roughly where the scope is pointing or how long it takes to traverse the angles from one place to another, that's okay.

 

I figured out a long time ago that I can't dictate how other folks should enjoy a hobby. As long as they enjoy it, that's good enough.

Whatever turns the crank, I have the best of both worlds, I just look up and know where most of it is in conjunction with a good app like SkySafari. If it wasn't for the SS smart scope many of the players would never have thought of astronomy as a pastime, take them away all of a sudden and the interest would be gone in a heart beat. Thats the way it is, like it or not.  

[LDW47]

Maybe some of these new astronomers should get back to talking, to anticipating the virtues of this new, wide field SS model, rather than trying to disregard the learned knowledge of long time, old time astronomers, who look up at the sky as their second home. They to are using EAA / smart scopes, its not difficult like star hopping was / is. We are losing track of the gist of this thread, right.  IMHO.

[Regulus 1.36]

A large part of me jumped in with agreement to this because it's how I learned fifty years ago. Oh God, that was fifty years ago? Crap, I'm old...

 

But then I looked at it again.

 

Smart scopes provide a new gateway into our hobby that will attract bunches of new participants. Some will fall in love, jump in with both feet (or maybe eyes), and move into big push-to Dobs, conventional SCTs, or high-end astrophotography. A few may even make it a career. But without the smart scopes, they wouldn't have ever found their way here. Some of them will learn the sky, but the folks that only use their Seestar S50 mark 3 or Dwarf 8 so they can post cool pictures on Faceboo0k or Instagram are still learning to love the night sky. And even if their only knowledge of where objects are, is roughly where the scope is pointing or how long it takes to traverse the angles from one place to another, that's okay.

 

I figured out a long time ago that I can't dictate how other folks should enjoy a hobby. As long as they enjoy it, that's good enough.

I'm skeptical that newcomers to astronomy will see an analog telescope as a step forward after using a smart scope. The latter's ease of use, being less cumbersome and easier to set up, makes it more efficient by comparison. 

 

While it's true that one cannot dictate others' choices, providing personalized guidance to new users can be influential, especially if they hold you in high regard.

[chrisecurtis]

A large part of me jumped in with agreement to this because it's how I learned fifty years ago. Oh God, that was fifty years ago? Crap, I'm old...

 

But then I looked at it again.

 

Smart scopes provide a new gateway into our hobby that will attract bunches of new participants. Some will fall in love, jump in with both feet (or maybe eyes), and move into big push-to Dobs, conventional SCTs, or high-end astrophotography. A few may even make it a career. But without the smart scopes, they wouldn't have ever found their way here. Some of them will learn the sky, but the folks that only use their Seestar S50 mark 3 or Dwarf 8 so they can post cool pictures on Faceboo0k or Instagram are still learning to love the night sky. And even if their only knowledge of where objects are, is roughly where the scope is pointing or how long it takes to traverse the angles from one place to another, that's okay.

 

I figured out a long time ago that I can't dictate how other folks should enjoy a hobby. As long as they enjoy it, that's good enough.

A lot depends on what you think the core elements of amateur astronomy are or should be.

 

I love to find my way about the sky, to watch constellations appear in the East, dominate the sky and sink in the West over weeks and even overnight. Seeing a new sky with constellations I had never seen before (as when I first went to Africa) was utterly thrilling. It's a basic human experience that people have been doing for as long as there have been people and sadly, one which our generation is doing its best to destroy along with so much else that we are polluting into non-existence. More optimistically, our generation also has more knowledge and opportunity in astronomy than any previous one. Smart scopes easily outperform what were the largest and best scopes in the world of my childhood.

 

I'd say that being out under the stars, at least occasionally,  is a core element of amateur astronomy, but it's not essential: nothing is except interest in finding out about and exploring for yourself some of the Universe beyond our planet. Star-hopping? I get why people can think that it, and various aspects of visual observation, are core elements of amateur astronomy, but they have no intrinsic value. They are one way of finding and experiencing for yourself some of the interesting and exciting objects in the sky, but choosing from an online atlas or smart scope database and allowing the scope to do the finding still requires you to decide that it was worth pointing the scope at something and knowing enough to make sense of what you are looking at. 

 

I think smart scopes are a good thing, as are many of the other ways in which people explore the night sky. It would be a tragedy if, as so often, amateur astronomers act as gatekeepers: trying to impose rules that they have invented on people who just want to look at stuff in the sky. Far better for the new Seestar or any other smart scope to be the thing that sparks interest and delight and maybe is the seed for a lifelong pursuit.

Edited by chrisecurtis, 05 October 2024 - 02:45 PM.

[LDW47]

Just remember all you knowledgeable, new astronomers that know everything about the heavens literally overnight, telescope astronomy, visual astronomy, AP has been around long, long before EAA and Smart Scopes and the learning curve is not short, the long time astronomers, the hard workers of the night skize are not here to say ' you know it all ', lol.  PS:  No insult intended.

[LDW47]

A lot depends on what you think the core elements of amateur astronomy are or should be.

 

I love to find my way about the sky, to watch constellations appear in the East, dominate the sky and sink in the West over weeks and even overnight. Seeing a new sky with constellations I had never seen before (as when I first went to Africa) was utterly thrilling. It's a basic human experience that people have been doing for as long as there have been people and sadly, one which our generation is doing its best to destroy along with so much else that we are polluting into non-existence. More optimistically, our generation also has more knowledge and opportunity in astronomy than any previous one. Smart scopes easily outperform what were the largest and best scopes in the world of my childhood.

 

I'd say that being out under the stars, at least occasionally,  is a core element of amateur astronomy, but it's not essential: nothing is except interest in finding out about and exploring for yourself some of the Universe beyond our planet. Star-hopping? I get why people can think that it, and various aspects of visual observation, are core elements of amateur astronomy, but they have no intrinsic value. They are one way of finding and experiencing for yourself some of the interesting and exciting objects in the sky, but choosing from an online atlas or smart scope database and allowing the scope to do the finding still requires you to decide that it was worth pointing the scope at something and knowing enough to make sense of what you are looking at. 

 

I think smart scopes are a good thing, as are many of the other ways in which people explore the night sky. It would be a tragedy if, as so often, amateur astronomers act as gatekeepers: trying to impose rules that they have invented on people who just want to look at stuff in the sky. Far better for the new Seestar or any other smart scope to be the thing that sparks interest and delight and maybe is the seed for a lifelong pursuit.

To many the SeeStar, the Dwarf, the Vao...... is just another form of video game, there is no doubt, you can tell by the writings, the come backs and the ....... . Sad but its there in every thread on any subject, don't tell me anythings, nothing changes. But in actual fact who the hell wants to tell the smart astronomers of today anything, especially when they are more knowledgeable, right.  Its the way that I personally look at it. Me I'm waitin' for that new model SS !

Edited by LDW47, 05 October 2024 - 03:23 PM.

[Regulus 1.36]

It seems a YouTuber will be receiving an S30 on Monday for an unboxing video. They mentioned it's a surprise and only hinted that the product's name includes the number 30.

[GSBass]

There does seem to be a good bit of tribalism in the hobby… I personally don’t care which robot people choose as long as they are happy, my favorite robots are the ones I own of course but they all have their strong points and weak points

A lot depends on what you think the core elements of amateur astronomy are or should be.

 

I love to find my way about the sky, to watch constellations appear in the East, dominate the sky and sink in the West over weeks and even overnight. Seeing a new sky with constellations I had never seen before (as when I first went to Africa) was utterly thrilling. It's a basic human experience that people have been doing for as long as there have been people and sadly, one which our generation is doing its best to destroy along with so much else that we are polluting into non-existence. More optimistically, our generation also has more knowledge and opportunity in astronomy than any previous one. Smart scopes easily outperform what were the largest and best scopes in the world of my childhood.

 

I'd say that being out under the stars, at least occasionally,  is a core element of amateur astronomy, but it's not essential: nothing is except interest in finding out about and exploring for yourself some of the Universe beyond our planet. Star-hopping? I get why people can think that it, and various aspects of visual observation, are core elements of amateur astronomy, but they have no intrinsic value. They are one way of finding and experiencing for yourself some of the interesting and exciting objects in the sky, but choosing from an online atlas or smart scope database and allowing the scope to do the finding still requires you to decide that it was worth pointing the scope at something and knowing enough to make sense of what you are looking at. 

 

I think smart scopes are a good thing, as are many of the other ways in which people explore the night sky. It would be a tragedy if, as so often, amateur astronomers act as gatekeepers: trying to impose rules that they have invented on people who just want to look at stuff in the sky. Far better for the new Seestar or any other smart scope to be the thing that sparks interest and delight and maybe is the seed for a lifelong pursuit.

[Joshua Roth]

For not-so-early adopters toying with a smart scope scenario (like me - I enjoy my refurbished Pixel 5 smartphone and iPad 6), any new model promises to lower prices on the previous ones. Hopefully they continue to support S50, Dwarf 2, et al., with firmware and app updates

[jgraham]

Indeed. I am really curious to see where the S30's price point lands. That... and how the field compares with th S50. I am pretty happy with the S50 as kindofa Goldilocks field, but a wider field could be useful.

Further thought is necessary...

[mdowns]

Remember guys,this is the 'New Seestar Announcement' thread.Our comments need to be focused on the topic of the thread.Start another thread if you want to discuss other matters.

[GSBass]

I am betting 299-349 , anything higher just does not make sense to me, it’s not going to be a widefield, still won’t fit andromeda 

Indeed. I am really curious to see where the S30's price point lands. That... and how the field compares with th S50. I am pretty happy with the S50 as kindofa Goldilocks field, but a wider field could be useful.

Further thought is necessary...

Edited by GSBass, 05 October 2024 - 05:33 PM.

[eyeoftexas]

…still won’t fit andromeda 

We still don’t know about that little lens.  Maybe their idea is to go higher resolution with the 30mm to leave the wide fields to that small one.  They’re also coming out with mosaic mode.

[bradhaak]

Don't define how others should enjoy our hobby. When you do, it's called gatekeeping and smacks of elitism. Instead be happy that you are finding common ground for discussion and education.

 

And to bring it back on topic, whether or not I buy an S30, I welcome everyone that does and hope they add to my enjoyment and understanding. And you know what? I'll bet that somebody with an S30, a cell phone, and no knowledge of the sky will have something to teach me.

[LDW47]

Don't define how others should enjoy our hobby. When you do, it's called gatekeeping and smacks of elitism. Instead be happy that you are finding common ground for discussion and education.

 

And to bring it back on topic, whether or not I buy an S30, I welcome everyone that does and hope they add to my enjoyment and understanding. And you know what? I'll bet that somebody with an S30, a cell phone, and no knowledge of the sky will have something to teach me.

If elitism reeks of long term knowledge, won by hard work and late nights there are a lot of us getting into EAA but we aren't gamers. We are just anxiously awaiting SeeStars new tool to view the wonders of the skys. And I think its going to be a lot of fun at no matter the cost, as long as it is astronomical.

Edited by LDW47, 05 October 2024 - 08:04 PM.

[tarbat]

So based on Mr Wens photo, has anyone calculated fov for comparison to s50 and others?

From the metadata, I've assumed 30mm aperture f/5:

 

GREEN = Seestar S50 = 0.72 x 1.28

YELLOW = Seestar S30 = 1.2 x 2.1

RED = Dwarf 3 = 2.93 x 1.65

 

 

Based on AstroNet photo meta deta

 

 

Dwarf 3 wins on FoV, S30 and S50 win on speed and lower sensor read noise.

 

Edited by tarbat, 06 October 2024 - 02:47 AM.