432 replies to this topic

[LDW47]

I am eagerly awaiting the arrival of the SeeStar Pro. In the meantime, I am on track to deliver an S50 to my local university observatory for community outreach. I also plan to purchase an S30 to test it out. If the device meets or exceeds my expectations, I will donate several of them to local libraries in my county.

 

My goal is to promote astronomy through Project Regulus, which I have initiated in honor of my father and uncle. Additionally, when the SeeStar Pro becomes available, I plan to donate my current S50 as well.

 

P.S. Although I haven't used the mosaic feature yet, I have seen it demonstrated, and I think it's a valuable addition. ✌

Just don't wait too hard for the Pro, it could be a long one, eh.

[Starlancer]

Just don't wait too hard for the Pro, it could be a long one, eh.

If ever, remember they have Cameras, Filter wheels, mounts and scopes to sell which basically is the pro model.  They might do a larger one but costs probably go up quick and perspective audience goes down.  I'd be happy with a S50 with a larger sensor (Also not 16x9) and an EQ mode, maybe an S60 but much larger and it's going to cut into other sales.

[Regulus 1.36]

LDW47, on 31 Oct 2024 - 09:06 AM, said:

Just don't wait too hard for the Pro; it could be a long one, eh.

While I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new SeeStar Pro it has no impact on my community efforts as the University's Seestar was just delivered via FedEx; however, it will be set up very similar to my own to be the perfect outreach scope.

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[bradhaak]

I just got an email for preorder from telescopes.net that has some real information along with a $349.00 (USD) price.

 

https://telescopes.n...6554fa-21786400

 

Highpoint Scientific has their preorder page up too.

 

https://www.highpoin...smart-telescope

Edited by bradhaak, 31 October 2024 - 07:09 PM.

[Digital Don]

I just got an email for preorder from telescopes.net that has some real information along with a $349.00 (USD) price.

 

Highpoint Scientific has their preorder page up too.

Looks like tomorrow's announcement came out a day early!

 

Don

[eyeoftexas]

Got the same emails including from Woodland Hills. Not clear if $349 was a special preorder price or the regular price, but their undercutting Dwarf 3 by $150 right now.

[bradhaak]

Add Agena Astro to the list.

[LDW47]

Now they are out for preorder, I just ordered one from my guy here in Ontario, hopefully I'll get it by early Jan.  And all the doubters can relax, they do have a new Sony sensor.

Edited by LDW47, 31 October 2024 - 07:59 PM.

[GSBass]

That’s too bad, I think it’s too high for what it is but maybe they are positioning for 250-299 on sale, the specs really don’t compete with the d3 so price will be the main selling point

[Starlancer]

That’s more than I expected.  I would definitely hold off till some real user images come out

[LDW47]

That’s more than I expected.  I would definitely hold off till some real user images come out

Watch for mine because I just preordered one, from one of my dealers here in Ontario. What a great price and I am sure it's performance will set a new standard, ya think, eh.  Thank you ZWO !   PS:  And with a new Sony sensor to boot, I can feel palpitations already. I heard it was one step up from the D3, for guite a bit less $'s, I heard.

Edited by LDW47, 31 October 2024 - 09:39 PM.

[LDW47]

And I read the tele. fov was 2.46°, not too bad, eh. And the wide. was 23.6° or close.

Edited by LDW47, 31 October 2024 - 10:22 PM.

[jgraham]

Resistance is futile... I also placed a pre-order. I started using the new framing (mosaic) feature on my S50s and I have been so impressed with the results it tweaked my interest in the S30, which should make going a bit wider even easier.

 

Neat stuff.

[tarbat]

the specs really don’t compete with the d3 so price will be the main selling point

Depends what is important to you:

1. SPEED: The S30 should be a faster scope than the D3, with signal per pixel (Etendue) 69% faster.
    
2. SNR: The S30 sub-exposures are likely to show much less read noise, with the Bortle 5 10s Read Noise being 87% lower. Optimum sub-exposure time for the S30 in a Bortle 5 sky should be 16s, vs the D3's impossible to achieve 143s.
    
3. PRICE: The S30 is 25% cheaper.
    
4. AVAILABILITY: The S30 is expected in UK stores mid-December, vs 12-weeks away for a D3.
    

It seems that ZWO have gone for a fast, cheap smart telescope that should get excellent results with the short sub-exposure times needed in a cheap mount. The combination of optics, sensor and cheap mount seem to be a good match.

 

On the other hand:

• The D3 scores on better resolution per pixel, but that will depend on tracking accuracy over those long sub-exposures needed to minimise the read noise percentage. So far, from the images I've seen, the D3's average FWHM has been a bit disappointing.
   
• The D3 scores on native field of view, but DwarfLabs will need to deliver an effective mosaic mode to compete with the S30.

Edited by tarbat, 01 November 2024 - 04:30 AM.

[tarbat]

And I read the tele. fov was 2.46°, not too bad, eh. And the wide. was 23.6° or close.

Tele fov should be around 2.6°, and hopefully a 2x mosaic will deliver 5.2°. It should be faster than the S50, and also have less sensor read noise in each sub-exposure.

 

S30 vs S50 comparison:

[LDW47]

We shall see but I know where my money is, every time, eh. I think Dwarf will play catch up forever, don't you think this S30 breakout wasn't all planned. Maybe.  Down the long road the next step for ZWO might be wheeling out a bigger guy, keep watching, I think their competition will be, eh.

Edited by LDW47, 01 November 2024 - 04:39 AM.

[eyeoftexas]

On the other hand:

• The D3 scores on better resolution per pixel, but that will depend on tracking accuracy over those long sub-exposures needed to minimise the read noise percentage. So far, from the images I've seen, the D3's average FWHM has been a bit disappointing.
   
• The D3 scores on native field of view, but DwarfLabs will need to deliver an effective mosaic mode to compete with the S30.

 

You forgot to add that the D3 allows native equatorial mode and aids polar alignment. 

[GSBass]

Kinda wrong forum to discuss that but I think fwhm issues may be settle time related from the dithering, will just have to see after the next firmware update, I’ve made them aware… as far as s30… just felt under 300 was appropriate price for the specs, not saying it won’t perform well, but 349 is close enough that after preorders it should be easy for them to hit the 299 pricepoint at various holiday sales…. Any perceived superiority of other systems kinda disappear in to irrelevance at that price point so they should sell a ton. It should be a good entry level bot with little risk, people can upgrade later if it does not suit their needs, I imagine you would not lose more than 100 bucks if you changed your mind.

 

Depends what is important to you:

1. SPEED: The S30 should be a faster scope than the D3, with signal per pixel (Etendue) 69% faster.
    
2. SNR: The S30 sub-exposures are likely to show much less read noise, with the Bortle 5 10s Read Noise being 87% lower. Optimum sub-exposure time for the S30 in a Bortle 5 sky should be 16s, vs the D3's impossible to achieve 143s.
    
3. PRICE: The S30 is 25% cheaper.
    
4. AVAILABILITY: The S30 is expected in UK stores mid-December, vs 12-weeks away for a D3.
    

It seems that ZWO have gone for a fast, cheap smart telescope that should get excellent results with the short sub-exposure times needed in a cheap mount. The combination of optics, sensor and cheap mount seem to be a good match.

 

On the other hand:

• The D3 scores on better resolution per pixel, but that will depend on tracking accuracy over those long sub-exposures needed to minimise the read noise percentage. So far, from the images I've seen, the D3's average FWHM has been a bit disappointing.
   
• The D3 scores on native field of view, but DwarfLabs will need to deliver an effective mosaic mode to compete with the S30.

 

[tarbat]

Kinda wrong forum to discuss that but I think fwhm issues may be settle time related from the dithering

Yes, the classic AP problem of settle time vs integration efficiency. Without an autoguiding scope all these smart telescopes can do is guess when the scope has settled after dithering and/or mosaic adjustment. I think ZWO understand that problem pretty well from it's years of experience with the ASIAir and then the S50, so wouldn't expect that to be a problem on the S30.

[GSBass]

That’s probably a good prediction, but even if it is not the case on initial software I think it’s safe to say they would tweak it in short order… I expect dwarf labs to do the same, we did get an update yesterday but it was mostly just adding comet data to the atlas, we are still on initial firmware

Yes, the classic AP problem of settle time vs integration efficiency. Without an autoguiding scope all these smart telescopes can do is guess when the scope has settled after dithering and/or mosaic adjustment. I think ZWO understand that problem pretty well from it's years of experience with the ASIAir and then the S50, so wouldn't expect that to be a problem on the S30.

[Regulus 1.36]

I just ordered my test mule from Astronomics. When I donated those Orion Star Blasters, I received a lot of inquiries about solar observing.

Interestingly, the moon and planets will appear similar to those instruments.

https://astronomics....ar&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Edited by Regulus 1.36, 01 November 2024 - 11:00 AM.

[Moonjet]

Will the S30 take Astro images with wide angle lens or only with telephoto lens?

[MillennialFalcon]

Just some thoughts...

 

Now we know the price and specs (but without a real use comparison review), would you pay $150-200 more for the S50 over the S30? If so, why?

 

Does the S30 make the S50 pointless until we get a S50 Plus or Pro (if one comes)?

 

Is the S30 going to significantly hurt sales of the S50? 

 

I kinda hope the S30 does, as it may pressure ZWO to quickly come out with a Pro or Plus model. Like a 50mm with the 585 sensor for $600ish. 

 

Not knowing the math, what about a 30mm or 40mm with the 585? Wider FOV and lower noise. Thoughts?

Edited by MillennialFalcon, 01 November 2024 - 11:56 AM.

[Regulus 1.36]

Just some thoughts...

Now we know the price and specs (but without a real use comparison review), would you pay $150-200 more for the S50 over the S30? If so, why?

Does the S30 make the S50 pointless until we get a S50 Plus or Pro (if one comes)?

Is the S30 going to significantly hurt sales of the S50?

I kinda hope the S30 does, as it may pressure ZWO to quickly come out with a Pro or Plus model, like a 50mm with the 585 sensor for $600ish.

Not knowing the math, what about a 30mm or 40mm with the 585? Wider FOV and lower noise. Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure the S50 will have the edge in image quality, just as it does over the Dwarf 3.

That's why I donated an S50 for my university outreach program.

Edited by Regulus 1.36, 01 November 2024 - 12:22 PM.

[GOLGO13]

Just some thoughts...

 

Now we know the price and specs (but without a real use comparison review), would you pay $150-200 more for the S50 over the S30? If so, why?

 

 

It appears to me that this one will do post processing inside it. If that's the case it should be better than the S50. You can post process manually with the S50. But it would be nice if it did it automatically.  I think this is a big deal if it works well