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Vixen Custom 60L Altazimuth mount weight capacity

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#1 patrickt

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 09:06 AM

Hello All,

                I'm picking up a Vixen Custom 60L this weekend, and was wondering if its load bearing capacity would allow it to carry a Vixen 80mm f/15 ??22

 

I saw a not so clear picture of the Custom 80M, and it looked to have the same altazimuth mount as the Custom 60L ??  This 60L needs some tlc though, but for the price of US$27... Thank You.

Patrick

 

 

 

                 

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Edited by patrickt, 23 October 2024 - 09:08 AM.


#2 norvegicus

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 09:35 AM

They are probably the same mount.  The rings will be different for the different diameter tubes.

 

These mounts are not particularly nice.  It's quite frustrating to adjust and stay on target in altitude.  Weight is not the issue, it's the length of the scope and the poor design of the mount.

 

Personally I wouldn't invest time or money  in this mount.  I gave away the one that came with my Custom 80M.

 

The 60L scope is a nice one and definitely worth $27, and the tripod legs are also nice and worth that on their own.

 

But use a better mount for a happier viewing experience.


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#3 deSitter

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 10:06 AM

I just finished re-doing one of these mounts to take normal rings. It can hold my 3" f/16 refractors very securely. As Sean points out, the altitude nut is tricky to adjust. The axle is fixed in the U-casting where the slo-mo boss goes, so don't remove that U-shaped metallic cover trying to adjust it - nothing under there to adjust.

 

The sequence of hardware is - metal washer, 1st altitude fork riser, nylon washer, cradle protrusion, nylon washer, other altitude fork riser, metal washer, jam nut, acorn nut. You tighten the jam nut down, then finger tighten the acorn nut, then hold the acorn nut FIRMLY with a wrench or vise grips while using another wrench to tighten the jam nut against the acorn nut. When properly done, and the telescope mounted, you can push the scope up and down and it will stay put in any position. It can appear quite stiff when just pushing on the cradle, but in use the lever arm of the tube makes it easy to push up and down.

 

Do NOT try this adjustment with the scope mounted - you risk the scope slamming down if the nuts give up. It's easier than it looks to adjust. I actually like this mount a lot, because it is absolutely as simple as possible without giving up slo-mos in both axes.

 

-drl


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#4 patrickt

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 10:46 AM

SEAN - Thanks for the input. I've actually always been curious about views through a Vixen 60mm f/15, so i'm happy to just have the ota. 

I will still try the 60L on it, but plan on doing a diy adapter to try my short scopes on it as well (a classic C90, an old Vixen 70mm f/4).

Patrick

 

DESITTER -  Thanks for your detailed method  its much appreciated. I will check out your procedure, when i have the mount in hand. The altitude mechanicals should be very interesting... Hey, i imagine this mount would at least be a whole lot better than the cheaper yoke mount without slo-mo controls. Its still the rainy season over here anyway, so lots of time to fiddle around with the mount.

Patrick


Edited by patrickt, 23 October 2024 - 10:48 AM.


#5 deSitter

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 10:56 AM

SEAN - Thanks for the input. I've actually always been curious about views through a Vixen 60mm f/15, so i'm happy to just have the ota. 

I will still try the 60L on it, but plan on doing a diy adapter to try my short scopes on it as well (a classic C90, an old Vixen 70mm f/4).

Patrick

 

DESITTER -  Thanks for your detailed method  its much appreciated. I will check out your procedure, when i have the mount in hand. The altitude mechanicals should be very interesting... Hey, i imagine this mount would at least be a whole lot better than the cheaper yoke mount without slo-mo controls. Its still the rainy season over here anyway, so lots of time to fiddle around with the mount.

Patrick

This and the next post shows how to add a device for using normal rings. It's pretty self-explanatory. You need to drill 2 1/4th inch holes in the saddle. The bar sits in the channel. Only complication is that the mounting screws have to be countersunk in the aluminum bar to ensure the scope clears the screw head. I always drill out the ring bottoms to 1/4" instead of relying on tapped holes in a soft casting (always a bad idea).

 

https://www.cloudyni...day/?p=13753000

 

-drl


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#6 Kasmos

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 12:23 PM

SEAN - Thanks for the input. I've actually always been curious about views through a Vixen 60mm f/15, so i'm happy to just have the ota. 

I will still try the 60L on it, but plan on doing a diy adapter to try my short scopes on it as well (a classic C90, an old Vixen 70mm f/4).

Patrick

 

I have the Celestron version of this OTA that came on a Polaris. I have way too many 60mm scopes and it's tied for the #1 spot. The ease of focusing a 60mm f/15 and the color free views make them a pleasure to use. A few others in this forum have had them as well and everyone likes them. You will probably be happy with it. The Alt-Az mounts appear to have mixed reviews. I would probably adjust it, and stick with it. waytogo.gif


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#7 tturtle

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 01:00 PM

I had one of these vixen alt az mounts and spent several years fiddling with it trying to get acceptable performance. The problem is that the offset means that the balance changes as you rotate the tube from horizon to zenith. I finally gave up and bought a vintage Polaris mount which is one of the best mounts ever made. Ideally suited to this scope and often available on the used market pretty cheap and also appropriate for this classic time period. Here’s a picture of the mount.

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Edited by tturtle, 23 October 2024 - 01:00 PM.

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#8 norvegicus

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 01:25 PM

I concur that the Polaris is a perfect match for this scope.  


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#9 jimeh

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Posted 23 October 2024 - 10:37 PM

I've had three of these mounts and none of them have ever worked right. I've used the method mentioned above and it held for at least one night. As I recall, there was an issue with temperature making my adjustments done in the daytime moot. I've also tried brass compression washers between the acorn nut and jam nut. I tried doubling up the jam nut. I tried replacing the acorn nut with a nylock nut. I tried everything, but with any sort of normal use, the jam nut always worked it's way loose when adjusting the altitude.

 

It's beyond frustrating and not worth the headache. It's a fundamentally flawed design. I applaud those who have made this mount work for them. I'm not convinced their success is repeatable.


Edited by jimeh, 23 October 2024 - 10:38 PM.

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#10 patrickt

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 12:00 AM

This and the next post shows how to add a device for using normal rings. It's pretty self-explanatory. You need to drill 2 1/4th inch holes in the saddle. The bar sits in the channel. Only complication is that the mounting screws have to be countersunk in the aluminum bar to ensure the scope clears the screw head. I always drill out the ring bottoms to 1/4" instead of relying on tapped holes in a soft casting (always a bad idea).

 

https://www.cloudyni...day/?p=13753000

 

-drl

Maybe you missed my pic, the 60L i'm picking up has rings, or did you mean that i could use other sized rings for other otas ? Regardless, thanks for the detailed procedure. Oh, your diy adapter looks nice and cleanly made.



#11 patrickt

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 12:06 AM

I have the Celestron version of this OTA that came on a Polaris. I have way too many 60mm scopes and it's tied for the #1 spot. The ease of focusing a 60mm f/15 and the color free views make them a pleasure to use. A few others in this forum have had them as well and everyone likes them. You will probably be happy with it. The Alt-Az mounts appear to have mixed reviews. I would probably adjust it, and stick with it. waytogo.gif

This would only be my third 60mm, so its good to know i made a good choice. As for the mixed reviews of the alt-az mount, i would like to try it with the 60L and see anyway. But if it really doesnt work out, i can always use my short refractors on it, and mount the 60L on another mount. Thanks for your reply.


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#12 patrickt

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 12:13 AM

I had one of these vixen alt az mounts and spent several years fiddling with it trying to get acceptable performance. The problem is that the offset means that the balance changes as you rotate the tube from horizon to zenith. I finally gave up and bought a vintage Polaris mount which is one of the best mounts ever made. Ideally suited to this scope and often available on the used market pretty cheap and also appropriate for this classic time period. Here’s a picture of the mount.

Thanks for the suggestion. My Polaris though is currently mated to its original ota, an 80L. I do have the SP mount (taller tripod version) that does general duty for my other two 60mm refractors, and can be used for my 60L.



#13 patrickt

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 12:16 AM

I've had three of these mounts and none of them have ever worked right. I've used the method mentioned above and it held for at least one night. As I recall, there was an issue with temperature making my adjustments done in the daytime moot. I've also tried brass compression washers between the acorn nut and jam nut. I tried doubling up the jam nut. I tried replacing the acorn nut with a nylock nut. I tried everything, but with any sort of normal use, the jam nut always worked it's way loose when adjusting the altitude.

 

It's beyond frustrating and not worth the headache. It's a fundamentally flawed design. I applaud those who have made this mount work for them. I'm not convinced their success is repeatable.

You might likely be right, but i think its worth a try anyway, for experience sake. But thanks for your input though.



#14 deSitter

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 03:22 AM

You might likely be right, but i think its worth a try anyway, for experience sake. But thanks for your input though.

You cannot judge the amount of tightness needed by manipulating the mount by hand.The right amount has the saddle difficult to even move by hand, but it works out for holding the tube at any angle. I bias the tube so that it is balanced at about 40 degrees. Even when very tight it is easy to move the scope up and down due to the long moment arm supplied by the tube. As mentioned, unless you get it tight enough it will release after some repeated motions.

 

A last resort is a nut with a set screw. You would drill a corresponding pit in the threads to receive the set screw. This setup is found on a lot of classic mounts.

 

-drl


Edited by deSitter, 24 October 2024 - 03:34 AM.

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#15 marcyc

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 01:48 PM

I've had three of these mounts and none of them have ever worked right. I've used the method mentioned above and it held for at least one night. As I recall, there was an issue with temperature making my adjustments done in the daytime moot. I've also tried brass compression washers between the acorn nut and jam nut. I tried doubling up the jam nut. I tried replacing the acorn nut with a nylock nut. I tried everything, but with any sort of normal use, the jam nut always worked it's way loose when adjusting the altitude.

It's beyond frustrating and not worth the headache. It's a fundamentally flawed design. I applaud those who have made this mount work for them. I'm not convinced their success is repeatable.

I am one of those people who absolutely love their Vixen Custom mounts. I have two Customs (although I only use one of them - the other is a spare I keep as a backup) and a Custom D (pretty much exactly the same as the Custom but with a counterweight).

My first of the Custom mounts I have had since it came to me new back in the late 1980s underneath my Vixen 90M refractor. That was my only scope for decades - it still rides on the Custom mount, and although I have many other scopes and mounts now this combo will be with me 'til the end.

The tension on my original mount has never needed adjusting - it just keeps performing fine year after year. The Custom D, which I just got second-hand a few years ago, was a little trickier. It took a bit of trial and error, as well as a lot of coaching from the great minds on this forum, but I eventually got the tension right and the nut locked adequately so that it, too, resists loosening no matter how many times I move it.

Is the mount perfect? No, I would definitely prefer if it didn't have to be reset every 30° or so. And I understand the frustration involved in getting the tension right. But once you do, it can be a joy to use!

Edited by marcyc, 24 October 2024 - 11:20 PM.

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#16 deSitter

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 02:26 PM

I am one of those people who absolutely love my Vixen Custom mounts. I have two Customs (although I only use one of them - the other is a spare I keep as a backup) and a Custom D (pretty much exactly the same as the Custom but with a counterweight).

My first of the Custom mounts I have had since it came to me new back in the late 1980s underneath my Vixen 90M refractor. That was my only scope for decades - it still rides on the Custom mount, and although I have many other scopes and mounts now this combo will be with me 'til the end.

The tension on my original mount has never needed adjusting - it just keeps performing fine year after year. The Custom D, which I just got second-hand a few years ago, was a little trickier. It took a bit of trial and error, as well as a lot of coaching from the great minds on this forum, but I eventually got the tension right and the nut locked adequately so that it, too, resists loosening no matter how many times I move it.

Is the mount perfect? No, I would definitely prefer if it didn't have to be reset every 30° or so. And I understand the frustration involved in getting the tension right. But once you do, it can be a joy to use!

I thought of adding a counterweight to my Custom, but decided against it. I have a shaft and a suitable weight so I would only need to drill and tap a hole in the cross beam. This mount's main use is for an 80mm f/11 and a 90mm f/10. Sometimes a 76mm f/16. They all work fine. I switched out the legs for some dreaded aluminum ones (clones of the Vixen legs) - they are just fine. Something about the mount resists vibration. It must be because there is so little mass in the head. The great wooden legs are living on a light-medium duty EQ mount. That can carry my 90mm f/16.

 

-drl



#17 grif 678

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Posted 24 October 2024 - 09:15 PM

Hello All,

                I'm picking up a Vixen Custom 60L this weekend, and was wondering if its load bearing capacity would allow it to carry a Vixen 80mm f/15 ??22

 

I saw a not so clear picture of the Custom 80M, and it looked to have the same altazimuth mount as the Custom 60L ??  This 60L needs some tlc though, but for the price of US$27... Thank You.

Patrick

On ebay, I have seen C102's on this mount for sell, I know that was a poor setup.



#18 patrickt

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Posted 27 October 2024 - 08:07 AM

Guys, i finally picked up the Custom 60L ! The objective just needed a light cleaning, so its fairly clean now.

 

But my concern were the slow motion mechanisms. Both azimuth and altitude controls felt frozen. So i then moved the ota by hand, and it was stiff and stayed in any position i put it in. Can i assume that its likely the jam nut (#2 in my pic right ?) on the altitude control, and the locknut on the azimuth were tightened way too much ? 

 

If so, i just loosen the acorn nut, then back of the jam nut until i can get the slow-motion controls moving, then tighten the acorn nut ? 

 

To loosen the azimuthal movement, do i simply loosen the nut underneath ? Sorry, i didnt want to take any risks damaging anything, hence the questions.

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Edited by patrickt, 27 October 2024 - 08:09 AM.

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#19 deSitter

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Posted 27 October 2024 - 08:49 AM

Guys, i finally picked up the Custom 60L ! The objective just needed a light cleaning, so its fairly clean now.

 

But my concern were the slow motion mechanisms. Both azimuth and altitude controls felt frozen. So i then moved the ota by hand, and it was stiff and stayed in any position i put it in. Can i assume that its likely the jam nut (#2 in my pic right ?) on the altitude control, and the locknut on the azimuth were tightened way too much ? 

 

If so, i just loosen the acorn nut, then back of the jam nut until i can get the slow-motion controls moving, then tighten the acorn nut ? 

 

To loosen the azimuthal movement, do i simply loosen the nut underneath ? Sorry, i didnt want to take any risks damaging anything, hence the questions.

Yes. There is no jam nut for azimuth I think (don't know, didn't need to adjust that, but a nylock would work there).

 

Try to move the cradle by hand, Work it from horizontal to vertical 10 or so times and make sure the altitude axle doesn't loosen. To tighten - tighten the jam nut with a dog bone wrench, hold it still, semi-tighten the acorn against the jam nut, then hold the acorn with a crescent or socket wrench and tighten the jam nut outward against the (stationary) acorn. Do this until the motion is as free as possible while still holding up the tube at any altitude. After a couple of iterations you'll get the hang. I would clean the nylon washers inside of all grit and grease before going for it.

 

When the tension is right, it is quite difficult to move the cradle by hand, but relatively easy using the scope as a lever arm.

 

-drl


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#20 patrickt

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Posted 27 October 2024 - 11:02 PM

Yes. There is no jam nut for azimuth I think (don't know, didn't need to adjust that, but a nylock would work there).

 

Try to move the cradle by hand, Work it from horizontal to vertical 10 or so times and make sure the altitude axle doesn't loosen. To tighten - tighten the jam nut with a dog bone wrench, hold it still, semi-tighten the acorn against the jam nut, then hold the acorn with a crescent or socket wrench and tighten the jam nut outward against the (stationary) acorn. Do this until the motion is as free as possible while still holding up the tube at any altitude. After a couple of iterations you'll get the hang. I would clean the nylon washers inside of all grit and grease before going for it.

 

When the tension is right, it is quite difficult to move the cradle by hand, but relatively easy using the scope as a lever arm.

 

-drl

Your right, no jam nut for the azimuth. So then, i decided to turn a short stemed black knob, that to my surprise (duhh..) unlocked the azimuth mechanism. I guess maybe i was being too careful...

 

The Altitude mechanism is a different story. Both acorn nut and jam nut are just screwed in so tight, such that i'm of course unable to follow your instructions. 

 

So i decided to try to loosen them up first (at this point, the ota is already off the mount).

I held a wrench steady on the jam nut, then got another wrench on the acorn nut, and proceeded to try to turn the acorn nut counterclockwise, but boy is it stiff ! My next step (if i had gotten the acorn nut loose) would have been to do your procedure.

 

So is my loosening procedure right ? If not, how should i go about it ? Your patience is definitely appreciated, thank you.



#21 deSitter

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Posted 28 October 2024 - 08:55 AM

Your right, no jam nut for the azimuth. So then, i decided to turn a short stemed black knob, that to my surprise (duhh..) unlocked the azimuth mechanism. I guess maybe i was being too careful...

 

The Altitude mechanism is a different story. Both acorn nut and jam nut are just screwed in so tight, such that i'm of course unable to follow your instructions. 

 

So i decided to try to loosen them up first (at this point, the ota is already off the mount).

I held a wrench steady on the jam nut, then got another wrench on the acorn nut, and proceeded to try to turn the acorn nut counterclockwise, but boy is it stiff ! My next step (if i had gotten the acorn nut loose) would have been to do your procedure.

 

So is my loosening procedure right ? If not, how should i go about it ? Your patience is definitely appreciated, thank you.

They are just stainless nuts on a steel shaft, so if 2 wrenches doesn't loosen it, I would suspect thread lock has been used. Maybe use a heat gun and penetrating oil. Careful not to overheat the aluminum casting! Also make sure your wrenches aren't working against each other. The jam nut is about the same height as the width of my dog bone wrench. If the jam nut and acorn nut are aligned, your wrench may be catching both nuts. I would also try impact - that is, move the cradle to its forward stop (pointed slightly down), then use a single wrench on the acorn nut and tap the handle with a small hammer of some sort with increasing vigor until it releases.

 

-drl


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#22 patrickt

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Posted 28 October 2024 - 04:45 PM

They are just stainless nuts on a steel shaft, so if 2 wrenches doesn't loosen it, I would suspect thread lock has been used. Maybe use a heat gun and penetrating oil. Careful not to overheat the aluminum casting! Also make sure your wrenches aren't working against each other. The jam nut is about the same height as the width of my dog bone wrench. If the jam nut and acorn nut are aligned, your wrench may be catching both nuts. I would also try impact - that is, move the cradle to its forward stop (pointed slightly down), then use a single wrench on the acorn nut and tap the handle with a small hammer of some sort with increasing vigor until it releases.

 

-drl

Great, i just needed to know that it was as simple as two nuts on a steel shaft. I did use a thin crescent wrench on the jam nut, and a socket on the acorn (one hand for each), so each tool only turns one nut. I will try again with penetrating oil. Thanks so much again drl !




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