23 replies to this topic

[paulsky]

Hello,
yes... total disappointment!!
A few days ago I bought a binoviewer, the WO with two eps. 20mm WO and a 1.6x corrector.
Today I tested it with the Lunt 40/600 and initially with only the bv. and the two 20mm eps don't focus, then I put the 1.6x in the bv. It doesn't focus either, then I put the 1.6x on the diagonal of the Lunt, it doesn't focus either, then I took out the diagonal Lunt a little, and the WO... out and there it does focus!! everything seems to be tied together by threads... I don't know if I can explain myself!!
I look through the eps.. and ohhhp!! (after spending a long time trying to focus with both eyes by moving the BV.) I see a large Sun with black spots but... no trace of the protuberances, I move the telescope to get the image in the best place on the planet. field of vision and no trace of the solar protuberances, it is as if I were looking at the sun through a red filter in white light... yes, as I say, not through a telescope in H-alpha!!
And why this?
Thank you for your opinions.
Paul

[Tapio]

So I assume it displays all the goodies without bv?
Did you adjust the etalon?

[bigdob24]

Are you adjusting the blocking filter in and out it’s travel distance to try and focus the binos?

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Contrarily to nighttime telescopes, you have 2 variables to adjust : focus and tuning.
Focus : move the diagonal back and forth until you obtain a clean view (no blur) of the solar disk.
Then, you have to adjust the tuning (the little wheel on the front). Start from the leftmost position, if you see absolutely no detail other than sunspots, wait 2 minutes and turn the wheel 1/8 inch to the right, repeat until you see the prominences.
Prominences are the first Ha feature to become visible, continue moving right until you see filaments on the solar disk.

[NuovaApe]

Hi Paul - it's normal to move the Lunt diagonal out to focus.

This is from the online Lunt50 manual, but pretty sure the paper manual for my Lunt40 says similar:

"Place a 25mm eyepiece in the end so you have the largest field of view to look at.

Pull the diagonal slide tube out about 25mm.

Put the focus at about 50% of travel"

(https://luntsolarsystems.com/manuals/)

 

That's good design. Lunt have reasoned a "middle ground" where most EPs/cameras will focus.
And given enough latitude in/out for those that need it.

 

You should only see a "red disk" when the Lunt40 etalon is fully tilted.

I can still see some disk features, but most prominences fade out at full tilt.

 

No tilt to hardly any tilt is best for me.
I bought 2x Lunt40s because I wanted to rear stack the etalons.

Both exhibit "hardly any tilt needed". Maybe it's my eyes which need tilting.

 

The stock focuser is "what you pay for". It might slop (unfounded guess...) with the WO binos - I don't know if they are heavy.

The Lunt diagonal is a neat box of tricks containing the "blocking filters".
If the diagonal is not aligned with the front etalon it can induce "off band" images.

 

There's one very special filter inside - "THE blocking filter" which must be "face on".

The smallest kink/angle/deviance can ruin the detail.

 

I can't believe I've used the words kink and deviance on Cloudy Nights  
 

Cheers, Ed.

[paulsky]

Thanks for all your answers.
I tell you:
When I observed in mono mode, that is, with only 1 ep., one eye, without BV., I saw all the protuberances, both in disk and in solar birde, when I observed it with BV., two eps. and two eyes disappeared... and in neither case did I touch the tuning wheel...., how do you explain this?
 

[paulsky]

Ed, the truth is that when I manage to focus with the Binoviewer WO and its two eps. of 20mm, was when I placed the 1.6x corrector at the tip of the diagonal of the Lunt telescope, the one that enters the telescope tube, and in fact I had to pull this diagonal out to be able to achieve focus, by doing it this way So maybe the diagonal was somewhat inclined.... with respect to the axis of the telescope... that is, I could have "detuned" it???
And another question: how could I achieve focus without having to put the corrector on the diagonal but on the BV., perhaps with a 1.8x, 2x or 2.5x corrector??
Thank you

[0ak3]

Shouldn't have detuned it as the tuning is way up on the etalon. You can use the bottom half of a shorty Barlow screwed into the 1.25 inch extension of the binoviewer. I would also suggest starting with something like a 32mm plossl

[NuovaApe]

I'm squirming here between feeling stupid and wanting to ask a stupid question.

 

"Shouldn't have detuned it"

 

I'm saying a rear saggy diag containing the selection filter will detune.

I think you're saying it won't.

 

I thought tilting the final selection filter can move the band being selected.

 

Apologies. Need to read more books 

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Insert the binoviewer and both eyepieces.

Close the left eye and observe just with the right eye. Can you see the solar details clearly ?

Switch eyes. Same question.

[0ak3]

Hmm. You are right Ed. I didn't read the above reply from paulsky very carefully apparently. This is may be what is happening. I did not have this problem on mine but the standard helical is not great and I ended up upgrading to the feather touch. Another option is to directly couple the blocker to the helical focuser with a T2 female to female adapter.

[paulsky]

have to try the inclination Ed, but for that I should put an OCA of 2x (maybe??) instead of the standard 1.6x? since if I could focus with the 2x, the diagonal could be well inserted in the optical tube and thus it would be aligned, and I would put the OCA in the binoviewer...
ugh! I thought this would be easier!!
Thank you Ed and other members for your comments.
cheers.
Paul

[paulsky]

Hello,
I did some tests with different optical accessories to see if I could focus with the WO binoviewer and the Lunt 40/600 solar telescope.
I have tried with:
- Focal reducer 0.5
- Barlow 2x
- Barlow 3x
All of them placed first in the binoviewer and then on the Lunt diagonal.
Result: I have not been able to focus with any of these combinations...!!!!??

Do I have to resign myself to not being able to use the binoviewer with the Lunt 40?
Would I have any option?
Thank you
Paul

[Clark@Night]

Hi,

 

Sorry to hear you're having problems with your setup.  Keep working on it!  Once you get it all corrected, it'll be worth it!

 

I use the 40mm Lunt SS/600 blocking filter/helical focuser with the Arcturus binoviewer, set up with the barlow section of a 2x Orion Shorty screwed into the provided adapter (ie, not directly into the main binoviewer unit).  This setup doesn't require me to pull out the blocking filter diagonal from the focuser.  It works great for me.  I see more details with my brain processing images from two eyes than with a single eyepiece, even though...technically...the images are dimmer with the binoviewer.

 

The Arcturus branded set comes with a 30mm Plossl eyepieces that are fine for full disk viewing, giving great eye relief and a lot of drift time.  I also use a set of Orion Sirius 25mm Plossl eyepieces that give a larger full disk view.  I've added a Bino Bandit to the eyepieces that really helps, and a DIY Sun shield to make viewing more comfortable.  I've used other eyepieces as well, but you have to take care because the "self-centering" mechanism of the binoviewer doesn't work well with undercut eyepieces.  You can adjust the overlapping images by either putting in a small spacer ring that moves the eyepiece outward, minimizing the undercut sections interaction with the closing ring, or rotating one eyepiece relative to the other.  You may need to do both actions.  

 

One more note, the Arcturus binoviewer is the same as others on the market, with the exception of the barlows and the eyepieces that come with the kit.  I bought an identical binoviewer (main section) off AliExpress for way under $100....but no eyepieces and the barlows are different....still assessing them.

 

Here's a picture of my setup on a Quick Set Samson tripod with a fluid head...with some modifications.  Overkill, but works really well.

 

Cheers, Clark

 

[Astro-Goat]

Hello,
yes... total disappointment!!
A few days ago I bought a binoviewer, the WO with two eps. 20mm WO and a 1.6x corrector.
Today I tested it with the Lunt 40/600 and initially with only the bv. and the two 20mm eps don't focus, then I put the 1.6x in the bv. It doesn't focus either, then I put the 1.6x on the diagonal of the Lunt, it doesn't focus either, then I took out the diagonal Lunt a little, and the WO... out and there it does focus!! everything seems to be tied together by threads... I don't know if I can explain myself!!
I look through the eps.. and ohhhp!! (after spending a long time trying to focus with both eyes by moving the BV.) I see a large Sun with black spots but... no trace of the protuberances, I move the telescope to get the image in the best place on the planet. field of vision and no trace of the solar protuberances, it is as if I were looking at the sun through a red filter in white light... yes, as I say, not through a telescope in H-alpha!!
And why this?
Thank you for your opinions.
Paul

I'll be honest. Thanks for buying and reporting back.  I was on the fence and now i know not to waste my money 

[bigdob24]

Maybe there’s an astronomy club in your area that could share equipment or information at this point.

Its too bad you can’t get the binos to work , my Denk II are a joy to observe with, way better than mono eyepiece observing.

[YossiZ]

I tried my Lunt 40 that has a FT focuser with WO binoviewers, both with x1.6 and x2.

I did not have enough focuser travel inwards to reach focus.

 

I ended up purchasing the Astromania / Arcturus bino in which the nose can be replaced to x1.85 and I can reach focus with it.

[paulsky]

The fact is that I tried to join the 1.6x + barlow 2x corrector lens, then the 1.6x+3x, then the 2x+ 3x... but nothing at all, there is no focus, it seems to me that the WO binoviewer would not work in any case with the Lunt 40.
If there is someone who has achieved it, please tell me... your help would be very valuable!!
I think I was wrong with the binoviewer!!
Although in night mode it is fantastic with the Moon and planets!!
Thank you,
Paul

[Astro-Goat]

The fact is that I tried to join the 1.6x + barlow 2x corrector lens, then the 1.6x+3x, then the 2x+ 3x... but nothing at all, there is no focus, it seems to me that the WO binoviewer would not work in any case with the Lunt 40.
If there is someone who has achieved it, please tell me... your help would be very valuable!!
I think I was wrong with the binoviewer!!
Although in night mode it is fantastic with the Moon and planets!!
Thank you,
Paul

wait a second. Was there any mention about trying to move the blocking filter back a little to get in focus?
For example, I have the 60mm lunt but when I was first used it I couldn't get in focus even with moving the focuser all the way out. But then I moved the blocking filter backs some then was able to achieve focus. But i'm using a single eyepiece.

[paulsky]

Yes, with only one ep. and by moving the blocking filter a little back I was able to focus, but not with the Binoviewer.

[Astro-Goat]

Yes, with only one ep. and by moving the blocking filter a little back I was able to focus, but not with the Binoviewer.

In all seriousness tho, i'm sorry to hear that didn't work out.  
I'd expect a little big more from William Optics.  Maybe it's a dud binoviewer? Not too sure at this point. If you have access or know someone who has a binoviewer maybe you can test. That way a dud binoviewer can be ruled out and Lunt can put a disclaimer that the W.O binoviewer doesn't work with the 40mm.
The only other thing I can think of if you have the 6mm version blocking filter it's is still to short and you need more to pull out; Maybe see if you can borrow the 12mm version and then test?

[George9]

Hi, Paul. Just separating a few things.

 

1. You mention losing the H-alpha view and going way off band to a red-colored white-light view. That's very odd. I know that it has worked in the past without the binoviewer, but just to confirm that it STILL works today with a single eyepiece. Just making sure this is not a change in the filter coincidentally.

 

It would take an extreme angle for the blocking filter to go all the way off band to the next comb filter peak (that's like a 10 A shift). So just confirm it is on band now in the single eyepiece, tuning the scope as needed.

 

2. For back focus there are two separate problems, too little and too much. For a binoviewer, you have too little back focus, so you add some kind of magnifier, like an OCS or Barlow. My experience is that putting the magnifier directly in front of the binoviewer never works because it is too late in the light path by then. The cone is already too small by the time it gets there. Even if you use a big magnifier like 3 times.

 

So therefore instead, you put the magnifier before the blocking filter. Here you need a mild magnifier because higher up (forward) in the cone, it causes a big increase in focal length. So you put a 1.6x or 2x at most in front of the blocking filter and now you have the opposite problem, that you have too much back focus. And the solution here can be mechanical. Add some kind of extension between the front of the magnifier and the focuser. DON'T put an extension between the binoviewers and the blocking filter or between the blocking filter and the magnifier or else you will actually make it worse. You really want the magnifier somewhere in the middle of the blocking filter, but that is not possible. So you put it in front of the blocking filter and make up the excess with a spacer in front of the magnifier. I actually remove the 2" tube from the front of my blocking filter and put my 2" magnifier (a Denkmeier OCS) directly on the front of the blocking filter body.

 

With the magnifier in front of the blocking filter, and with moving the magnifier further from the focuser, you will end up reducing the cone size entering the blocking filter, and so the 6mm size should make it, although generally the bigger the better. I use an 18mm blocking filter for my Lunt LS80 scope.

 

George

[paulsky]

Yes, actually when I placed the WO OCS 1.6x on the diagonal blocking filter and took it out I was able to focus with great difficulty, the entire diagonal was not well aligned since when I tightened the screw on the tube to fix it it was a little bit inclined, and the image that provided it was a red Sun with the corresponding black spots but no trace of the protuberances, it was an image that will remind me of the solar image in white light but in red.
Immediately after that I placed a single ep. without binoviewer and the solar image returned to present the solar image in usual H apha, on the other hand the Binoviewer WO placed on a Mak 127 that I have, both in night mode and during the day it complies perfectly, it provides a very good image.. it is I mean, the binoviewer is perfect... but with the Lunt it doesn't work!!
Greetings and thank you very much for your comments.

[George9]

I wonder if there is a secondary image of the Sun way off axis, and with the WO tilted, you were actually looking at that. I don't know that that occurs, but just trying to guess what went wrong.

 

George