45 replies to this topic

[12BH7]

I was trying to get a viewable position to look at the moon last night.  Which meant I had to roll the trolley my beast of a 12" SCT sits on down the driveway decline. Now something that you need to understand is that even though it's bolted to the trolley, this thing is incredibly top heavy. 

 

Somehow I ended up on the up hill side trying to stop the trolley from rolling away and also from toppling over.  Compound this by stupidly having something else in my hands at the time - I was physically stuck. I had one hand pulling with all my strength trying to hold the trolley back from rolling down the driveway, but also from not tipping over. I was desperately trying to find something to chock the wheels with. 

 

This was the first time I was actually scared moving this thing. I was stuck between trying to hold it back, stop it from tipping over and trying to extricate myself from this position. At one point when the front wheel of the trolley tipped up off ground I thought - this is it - $5000 down the drain.

 

When I finally got the situation under control it gave me time to think.  Do you know how we all think that one day I have to downsize. Well, this was the first, with beads of nervous perspirations still running down my face, that I seriously understood the need to do just that. I actually said to myself, I can't do this anymore.

[donniesoprano]

This is why I don't own a buggy anymore.  Had a similar situation with just an 8" SCT on my steep driveway and I've been huffing the pieces by foot ever since.

 

I think those buggys almost only make sense for flat rollouts, which doesn't apply to me.

 

ds

[PIEJr]

Glad all survived!

 

Maybe it's time to figure out something more permanent for your SCT?

 

While my rig is capable of being portable, I leave it setup in my back yard.

Maybe a different method would be worth concidering?

[12BH7]

There's a flat part of the driveway just outside the garage door. But it has it's limitations being so close to the house. 

 

It would appear that not only is the 12" no longer going to dark sites, but it's also no longer going past the front of the garage.

 

Luckily, I have a very good portable 8" that I can carry with almost one hand. It's 20 pounds fully loaded. It looks like life, and my situation, is pushing me ever forward to finally dedicating myself to using the 8"

Edited by 12BH7, 07 November 2024 - 11:19 AM.

[SoCalPaul]

Glad you were able to avert disaster! Hope the stress didn't take too many years off your life expectancy, LOL.

 

I want to echo what the previous responders said.

 

I used to have a Nexstar 11, but the combination OTA/fork was just too heavy and awkward. I nearly lost it a couple times while trying to put it on top of the tripod.

 

I deforked the OTA and replaced the mount. This enables me to break down the outfit into five batches:

 

OTA

Mount head

CWT's

Tripod

Everything else- finder, mount cables and HC, battery pack

 

I keep the mount set up in the back yard for days or weeks at a time, which greatly reduces setup time and effort. This is where a good quality cover is important. And I only have to move three items into the house and then back outside- the OTA, the "everything else" case, and of course my eyepiece case.

 

It's more work than keeping everything assembled and able to roll on wheels, but not so much work that I find it a hassle.

 

You mentioned downsizing. Personally, I'm not willing to accept a decrease in aperture. I would rather keep finding ways to make setup and teardown easier. For instance, I am considering one of those high-quality, foldup "wagons" for transporting the OTA, "everything else" case and eyepiece case all in one shot: https://a.co/d/0hM7Ly1

 

Good luck, hope you never have to deal with a crisis like that again!

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[12BH7]

Glad all survived!

 

Maybe it's time to figure out something more permanent for your SCT?

 

While my rig is capable of being portable, I leave it setup in my back yard.

Maybe a different method would be worth concidering?

The front of the house is the only area I can view.  Both the side and back yards are locked in with trees. I'm stuck, literally, on the driveway.

[12BH7]

Glad you were able to avert disaster! Hope the stress didn't take too many years off your life expectancy, LOL.

 

I want to echo what the previous responders said.

 

I used to have a Nexstar 11, but the combination OTA/fork was just too heavy and awkward. I nearly lost it a couple times while trying to put it on top of the tripod.

 

I deforked the OTA and replaced the mount. This enables me to break down the outfit into five batches:

 

OTA

Mount head

CWT's

Tripod

Everything else- finder, mount cables and HC, battery pack

 

I keep the mount set up in the back yard for days or weeks at a time, which greatly reduces setup time and effort. This is where a good quality cover is important. And I only have to move three items into the house and then back outside- the OTA, the "everything else" case, and of course my eyepiece case.

 

It's more work than keeping everything assembled and able to roll on wheels, but not so much work that I find it a hassle.

 

You mentioned downsizing. Personally, I'm not willing to accept a decrease in aperture. I would rather keep finding ways to make setup and teardown easier. For instance, I am considering one of those high-quality, foldup "wagons" for transporting the OTA, "everything else" case and eyepiece case all in one shot: https://a.co/d/0hM7Ly1

 

Good luck, hope you never have to deal with a crisis like that again!

 

Clear skies,

Paul

I have looked into remounting the 12". The only mount available would be a AZ EQ-6. An even bigger beast of a mount. But as you point out it does come in separate pieces.   Good idea but I have nowhere to go except the driveway. If I had multiple areas to use it I would consider it being worth the effort.

 

I can safely use the 12" on the flat part of the driveway and use it for a limited view DSO area. The smallest aperture I can ever see myself going to is 8". I'm not trying to insult anyone, but below that I'm just browsing. 

[12BH7]

This is why I don't own a buggy anymore.  Had a similar situation with just an 8" SCT on my steep driveway and I've been huffing the pieces by foot ever since.

 

I think those buggys almost only make sense for flat rollouts, which doesn't apply to me.

 

ds

This is why I vowed to never "bulk up" my 8" setup. I kept it under 20 pounds and streamline. It has slow motion controls, electronic DSC and surprisingly good optics. 

 

A few times I started looking into more extensive GOTO mounts for it. I decided that what I like the most about this setup IS that it is highly portable and highly functional. 

Edited by 12BH7, 07 November 2024 - 11:33 AM.

[jonee523]

Wow so glad it's all including yourself are unscathed. This may sound crazy, but is there anyway to make a pad near or next to the driveway? Just a thought if its possible.... Whatever solution you come up with good luck.....

[deSitter]

I would weigh down the bottom and attach a winch from my truck/car and allow the winch to slowly manually unspool. Yes almost all telescope/mount combinations involving a tripod are extremely top heavy. Lucky to survive, it must have been scary.

 

A big dead weight like a 50 lb bag of concrete would do.

 

-drl

[SoCalPaul]

I have looked into remounting the 12". The only mount available would be a AZ EQ-6. An even bigger beast of a mount. But as you point out it does come in separate pieces.   Good idea but I have nowhere to go except the driveway. If I had multiple areas to use it I would consider it being worth the effort.

 

I can safely use the 12" on the flat part of the driveway and use it for a limited view DSO area. The smallest aperture I can ever see myself going to is 8". I'm not trying to insult anyone, but below that I'm just browsing. 

I'm not sure the AZ-EQ6 is your only option. I have my C11 mounted on an iOptron iEQ45, which has a stated capacity of 45 lbs. I find it suitable for the C11, which fully loaded weighs 30 lbs., but that's about the max I would put on it.

 

However, iOptron have done an excellent job with weight-to-payload ratios, so I would check out some of their higher-capacity offerings. I think they probably weigh a lot less than the EQ6 variations.

 

If you are a die-hard Alt-Az observer like me, then maybe one of the current crop of strain-wave mounts that supports AA configuration? I think some of those can handle a 12" SCT with the addition of counterweights? And I believe those mount heads are also quite light with a high weight-to-payload ratio?

 

Paul

[MarMax]

I've dropped a scope before so I can understand your concern. My fail was due to a tripod and not a wheelie rig but it happened because I did not have both hands free to grab the scope.

 

I have three different wheelie rigs and the only one that is safe for travelling "off road" is the JMI with the heavy duty 10" wheels. It's low slung and with the pneumatic tires it inspires more confidence. Not that you want to do anything extreme with it, but it would take a steep angle to tip over. This is the C11 with 43 pounds of counterweight. The main concern is rolling away so wheel blocks are required.

 

[triplemon]

I would weigh down the bottom and attach a winch from my truck/car and allow the winch to slowly manually unspool.

I'd rather make a dolly that is a bit wider and in addition allows the tripod to rest lower. MarMax' JMI is good step in that direction.

I also like this one - mounting the wheels distinctly outside the dolly helps stability further:
https://www.astrobin...unread=1#115856
 

Actually, building it from wood is fine. If you use extendable posts to stabilize it once in position the dolly itself is pretty much out of the picture. If you don't, the rubber tires are surely flexing more than a wooden dolly, anyways.
https://www.astrobin...read=1#115823-2

The handlebar also helps you not trying to stop it by pushing against the scope, i.e. at the top.

Edited by triplemon, 07 November 2024 - 01:46 PM.

[12BH7]

I'm not sure the AZ-EQ6 is your only option. I have my C11 mounted on an iOptron iEQ45, which has a stated capacity of 45 lbs. I find it suitable for the C11, which fully loaded weighs 30 lbs., but that's about the max I would put on it.

 

However, iOptron have done an excellent job with weight-to-payload ratios, so I would check out some of their higher-capacity offerings. I think they probably weigh a lot less than the EQ6 variations.

 

If you are a die-hard Alt-Az observer like me, then maybe one of the current crop of strain-wave mounts that supports AA configuration? I think some of those can handle a 12" SCT with the addition of counterweights? And I believe those mount heads are also quite light with a high weight-to-payload ratio?

 

Paul

The Meade 12" OTA is a monster of a tube.  It is not just heavy but also has a very long lever arm. Making mounting, just that much more fun.

 

I did have my hands on a ZWO mount at a local astronomy shop. Amazing piece of engineering.  The one thing we discussed about mounting a 12" was that this mount needs to be fixated to the ground when using this size scope. Being that it's only 8 pounds (???) that makes it incredibly top heavy as well needing a significant amount of counter weights. An amazing mount, but I also didn't want to get that deeply involved in third party software. I'm just lookin!!!

Edited by 12BH7, 07 November 2024 - 02:14 PM.

[12BH7]

I've dropped a scope before so I can understand your concern. My fail was due to a tripod and not a wheelie rig but it happened because I did not have both hands free to grab the scope.

 

I have three different wheelie rigs and the only one that is safe for travelling "off road" is the JMI with the heavy duty 10" wheels. It's low slung and with the pneumatic tires it inspires more confidence. Not that you want to do anything extreme with it, but it would take a steep angle to tip over. This is the C11 with 43 pounds of counterweight. The main concern is rolling away so wheel blocks are required.

 

C11_G11G_06062024s.jpg

My trolley is fine on flatter ground. It's only on declines that I need a Runaway truck break stop.

[PIEJr]

I've dropped a scope before so I can understand your concern. My fail was due to a tripod and not a wheelie rig but it happened because I did not have both hands free to grab the scope.

 

I have three different wheelie rigs and the only one that is safe for travelling "off road" is the JMI with the heavy duty 10" wheels. It's low slung and with the pneumatic tires it inspires more confidence. Not that you want to do anything extreme with it, but it would take a steep angle to tip over. This is the C11 with 43 pounds of counterweight. The main concern is rolling away so wheel blocks are required.

 

C11_G11G_06062024s.jpg

That looks like overlander buggy, Mike!

[deSitter]

The Meade 12" OTA is a monster of a tube.  It is not just heavy but also has a very long lever arm. Making mounting, just that much more fun.

 

I did have my hands on a ZWO mount at a local astronomy shop. Amazing piece of engineering.  The one thing we discussed about mounting a 12" was that this mount needs to be fixated to the ground when using this size scope. Being that it's only 8 pounds (???) that makes it incredibly top heavy as well needing a significant amount of counter weights. An amazing mount, but I also didn't want to get that deeply involved in third party software. I'm just lookin!!!

If you haven't seen one, the Meade giant field tripod was made for this scope. it is one massive hoss of a tripod! Has to be experienced, not seen in a pic.

 

-drl

[Phil Cowell]

That’s why I get my grandsons to swap the scopes in the observatory.

[PIEJr]

The front of the house is the only area I can view.  Both the side and back yards are locked in with trees. I'm stuck, literally, on the driveway.

What about a small winch from Harbor Freight, mounted in the garage (back wall?). with a long enough tether so you can gently roll your buggy and scope out and down the driveway?

 

THIS ONE comes with 50' of wire rope and has 2000 pounds of pulling capacity.

[Phil Cowell]

That’s a great idea. 

 

What about a small winch from Harbor Freight, mounted in the garage (back wall?). with a long enough tether so you can gently roll your buggy and scope out and down the driveway?

 

THIS ONE comes with 50' of wire rope and has 2000 pounds of pulling capacity.

[12BH7]

What about a small winch from Harbor Freight, mounted in the garage (back wall?). with a long enough tether so you can gently roll your buggy and scope out and down the driveway?

 

THIS ONE comes with 50' of wire rope and has 2000 pounds of pulling capacity.

I could hook it onto my Jeep to get it to the flat part of the driveway.

[ABQJeff]

Sorry to hear of your travails!  Don’t feel bad.  A year ago I did the same thing and my C11 and 140mm refractor did topple.  Fortunately I was holding with all my strength as it went down so all I lost is one finder, finder rings, a diagonal and the tripod spreader and tray on my Planet.  All replaceable.

 

The key cause was the garage floor lip and my tripod was not ever attached to the dolly.  I always did one wheel at a time entering the garage, this time I pushed the dolly fast two wheels at once over the lip and the tripod tipped once the wheels in tandem hit the lip.

 

Lesson I learned: seat belts work!  I now have clip straps on each leg of the tripod.  I also always have a weight at the bottom and go over lip one wheel at a time.

 

Az/Eq-6 works great and even works better now on my sloped driveway!  (remember tie the tripod down!)

 

 

 

Edited by ABQJeff, 07 November 2024 - 08:05 PM.

[12BH7]

I have one leg bolted to the trolley. I should bolt the other two. 

 

Today, under controlled conditions, I did a test run rolling the rig down the slopped driveway. I found where I went wrong.  One big problem was that I overloaded the trolley with extra weight with my EP case, observing chair, etc.... Not only was the extra weight the problem but I had no clear spot to grab onto or around.

[Gmb1830]

That’s why I get my grandsons to swap the scopes in the observatory.

My wife suggests spending $10 to get a neighbor teen to help move heavy stuff around the house is better than a month with back pain.  Now all the strong teens have graduated.  Not sure if that's useful for late nights, though.

 

Slightly off topic, but related by the "how to ease one's mind while doing potentially disastrous activities":  Do people get special insurance policies/riders for their scopes?  I would assume they have large deductibles.  Or are they covered by normal household policies?

[donniesoprano]

I would suggest that none of your non-permanently setup (like in an observatory) equipment be more than you can handle on your own.

 

ds