22 replies to this topic

[donmichaelo]

I'm getting an Oberwerk 5000 tripod soon, and I want to use it with a parallelogram mount for my 15x70 and 20x80 binoculars.  Can you please recommend a model that's available online and compatible with the Obi 5000?

[DeanD]

Most mounts have a standard 3/8" tripod thread, and would be attachable to the 5000 tripod, although I wouldn't use it at full extension: I suspect it would vibrate too much. There seems to be a dearth of them at the moment, with Orion no longer available. A very good one is the Artesky, but not available until early next year  https://www.teleskop...elescopes-11317

 

I assume the Oberwerk PM2 would be attachable too, so check with them.

 

Omegon make a couple of different mounts. Depending on what bino you are using you could try this one (for up to 2.5kg binos): https://www.omegon.e...#specifications

I think their "Pro Kolossus" mount is too big though...

 

All the best,

 

Dean

[Cali]

I used a Farpoint Universal Binocular Mount (UBM) on the 5000 and it worked ... mighty fine with 20x80 and 25x100. Its no longer offered but look for one used.

 

- Cal

Edited by Cali, 08 November 2024 - 12:07 AM.

[donmichaelo]

I don't know why but it is indeed a dearth.

I can not find online most of the reputable brands (Farpoint UBM, Orion, Universal Astronomics, etc).

I will try the Artesky and Omegon, Dean, thanks.

Another possibility is to look for one used, as Cal recommend. The point is that I use a USA forwarder and some companies does not like to accept order that way (who say Farpoint?, who had it in BIG letters).

Any way I wonder if wait for the Obi 15x70 UltraED, soon to come, or bite the bullet with the mount. My pocket has suffered severely in the last weeks! 

 

Thanks, guys!!

[donmichaelo]

Most mounts have a standard 3/8" tripod thread, and would be attachable to the 5000 tripod, although I wouldn't use it at full extension: I suspect it would vibrate too much. There seems to be a dearth of them at the moment, with Orion no longer available. A very good one is the Artesky, but not available until early next year  https://www.teleskop...elescopes-11317

 

I assume the Oberwerk PM2 would be attachable too, so check with them.

 

Omegon make a couple of different mounts. Depending on what bino you are using you could try this one (for up to 2.5kg binos): https://www.omegon.e...#specifications

I think their "Pro Kolossus" mount is too big though...

 

All the best,

 

Dean

BTW, Dean, I was looking at the omegon you metioned, I found it quite adequate and even not so expensive, but I find the arm quite short. ¿Is it suitable for using with a zero gravity chair?

[sevenofnine]

Consider calling Kevin at Oberwerks about their PM-2 mount 

 

https://oberwerk.com...t/oberwerk-pm1/.

[DeanD]

BTW, Dean, I was looking at the omegon you metioned, I found it quite adequate and even not so expensive, but I find the arm quite short. ¿Is it suitable for using with a zero gravity chair?

I suspect it is not long enough for a zero gravity chair (I didn't realise that was what you wanted to use it for)- and it would also need a pivot to turn the binoculars sideways.

Both the Artesky and the PM2 should be OK though. I understand that production for the Artesky mount is limited and you would need to contact the dealer and order one in advance. My friend who owns both said he had to wait 6 months for the Artesky- but now he has it he loves it, and is looking to sell his PM2 (sadly for you, he lives in Australia).

 

All the best,

 

Dean

[donmichaelo]

I suspect it is not long enough for a zero gravity chair (I didn't realise that was what you wanted to use it for)- and it would also need a pivot to turn the binoculars sideways.

Both the Artesky and the PM2 should be OK though. I understand that production for the Artesky mount is limited and you would need to contact the dealer and order one in advance. My friend who owns both said he had to wait 6 months for the Artesky- but now he has it he loves it, and is looking to sell his PM2 (sadly for you, he lives in Australia).

 

All the best,

 

Dean

Thanks, Dean, I am contacting Kevin, about his PM2.

 

Be well, my friend!! Thanks again!

[Rich V.]

Thanks, Dean, I am contacting Kevin, about his PM2.

 

Be well, my friend!! Thanks again!

I'd expect Kevin to recommend the surveyor type tripod he sells with the PM2 rather than the 5000 tripod.  I certainly notice the difference in stability between my similar design Manfrotto photo tripods and my surveyor tripod when using my Unimount p-gram, particularly with heavier binos.

[Terra Nova]

BTW, Dean, I was looking at the omegon you metioned, I found it quite adequate and even not so expensive, but I find the arm quite short. ¿Is it suitable for using with a zero gravity chair?

These sorts of short parallelogram mounts like the Orion Paragon Plus (no longer available), the Artesky (limited availability), and the Omegon (seems to be a bit less in payload capacity than the other two), work great with 15x70 and 20x80 binoculars. I have and use them both on a modified Orion Paragon Plus/tall surveyors mount. The short P-grams are a pleasure to use. They are easy to balance, smooth, stable, and one really neat feature is once it’s been placed on target, it can easily be raised and lowered to accommodate viewers of different height (like kids), and remain on target. I absolutely love mine. But please be advised, given their much shorter moment arm (length) which allows them to balance easily and operate smoothly, free of giggling, the binocular is never very far from the tripod hub. Given that, they really are what I call standing mounts. By this, I mean the viewer needs to stand under the mount, or be seated on a stool. I can’t visualize that it would work well laying back in a reclining chair, at least without really straining your neck, and you would constantly be moving the chair. I’ve also had the long P-gram (like the UA/Farpoint) which affords one to two additional degrees of freedom in where the binocular meets the mount, and also has a much longer arm. These are the ones that are really designed for use in a reclining (zero-gravity) chair or chaise. And to me, they are also the ones that provide an experience much like wrestling an octopus, to use a previous posters jargon. I didn’t like mine at all. (They also need a fairly heavy tripod because they are themselves a really long lever.)

 

Here’s my rig (w/ 20x80 binocular)

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Edited by Terra Nova, 09 November 2024 - 01:10 PM.

[Rich V.]

I’ve also had the long P-gram (like the UA/Farpoint) which affords one to two additional degrees of freedom in where the binocular meets the mount, and also has a much longer arm. These are the ones that are really designed for use in a reclining (zero-gravity) chair or chaise. And to me, they are also the ones that provide an experience much like wrestling an octopus, to use a previous posters jargon. I didn’t like mine at all. (They also need a fairly heavy tripod because they are themselves a really long lever.)

I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder but I've been using my Unimount Dlx for over 20 years now and I've never thought of it as "wrestling an octopus" at all.  Perhaps it's because I've carefully adjusted every bearing point to the proper amount of friction that allows smooth, balanced movements without any looseness that might make it feel like the mount is getting out of my control.

 

It's another one of those YMMV things, but like anything else, careful setup can make a world of difference for the particular user.

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[Terra Nova]

I completely agree with you Rich. It seems most who have them, love them. When I ordered mine I was eagerly awaiting it’s arrival. When it came, it appeared large and ungainly, awkward really. My experience compounded those feelings. I always thought I was going to get bonked in the head with one end of it or the other, or that my fingers were gonna get caught in the scissors and chopped off. I had a terrible time trying to get in a comfortable position in my chaise underneath the thing. The first time seemed to go well and I was almost thrilled with the laying back, immersive, effortless experience that others had talked about. But soon after that, things went down hill. It was like I was like I was chasing the dragon! I could never replicate that first experience and it got harder, rather than easier for me to use it. I even tried attaching it to the deck rail and using a lightweight aluminum folding chair. It just wasn’t for me. It came at the beginning of summer and it was gone by summer’s end.

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[B 26354]

My dear friend Terra and I agree to disagree on this issue.  

 

Here's my Farpoint UBM on an Oberwerk TR3 walnut tripod, carrying my APM 25x100 MS ED:

 

 

 

 

I love using this setup for the large binocs, and prefer to use it either standing, or with the small, lightweight camping chair that's in the picture. I've tried using a reclining "zero gravity" chair with it, but didn't like how cumbersome it was to move the chair around, when viewing widely different sections of the sky.

 

Personally, I think that trying to use a substantially-strong p-gram like this one or the Artesky:

 

https://www.teleskop...elescopes-11317

 

...on anything less than a very solid surveyor's tripod would be an exercise in frustration. As always, YMMV.

 

[Terra Nova]

I wouldn’t say we disagree at all Terry. I acknowledged that most people loved them. I never said that there was anything fundamentally wrong with them either. I just said that they didn’t work well for me and that they felt awkward.  I don’t see that as a disagreement, just a difference in preference. Kind of like liver. Most people I know dislike it, I love it. If somebody said that liver wasn’t good for you (it probably isn’t),  and somebody said that it was the most healthy of meats, then they would have a disagreement. On the other hand, if somebody simply said that they don’t like liver, and another said it tastes good to them and they love it, that’s just a difference in preferences. One person’s poison is another’s pudding.

Edited by Terra Nova, 09 November 2024 - 03:23 PM.

[donmichaelo]

While I wait for the Kevin response, from what I see, getting a good parallelogram mount is like looking for a needle in a haystack. I don't see any alternatives, even less so if I want to use a zero gravity chair.

I wonder why, perhaps they are opting for the Terra point of view and they are going for a PM2...I don't want to chase the dragon at my 73!!

[glittledale]

i do which that whatever company that made the orion monster mount would come out of hiding.  i only have a few miles on one i used at a friend's house.  it carried his tak astronomer (which might have influenced the experience).  i have high hopes of finding one some day.  could be another case of dragon chasing though.  

[DeanD]

Noting the comments above, I still think that a nice parallelogram mount is excellent for large binos, but using any mount with a chair means having to move the chair for most new objects, which can be a pain if you are reclining and have to get up each time - unless you can move the chair with the mount, like this:    

 

 

An easily moved stool is a nice compromise.

 

All the best,

 

Dean

 

[DeanD]

PS: Another option you may like to think about if you have a workshop is making your own. I find this one works well, even for 25x100's:

 

[Orion’s sword]

PS: Another option you may like to think about if you have a workshop is making your own. I find this one works well, even for 25x100's:

 

25x100s on parallelogram small.jpg

Agreed, since there are not many manufacturers.

They’re so easy to make and affordable.

Some scrap lumber and a saw.

[donmichaelo]

I'd expect Kevin to recommend the surveyor type tripod he sells with the PM2 rather than the 5000 tripod.  I certainly notice the difference in stability between my similar design Manfrotto photo tripods and my surveyor tripod when using my Unimount p-gram, particularly with heavier binos.

Yes, Indeed Rich,  Kevin does not recommend the 5000 tripod with PM2:

 

"...our PM2 is about 20 lbs. with it's built-in

counterweights.  If you add a 25x100 to that, that's a 30 lb. load for
the tripod- which is too much for the 5000.  For that reason, almost
all PM2 are sold with our TR3 tripod"

 

So, since I ordered my 5000, I will end using it as a standard good sturdy tripod...

 

Thanks

[Rich V.]

So, since I ordered my 5000, I will end using it as a standard good sturdy tripod...

For many years now, I've found a tall photo tripod and video head is very handy for those shorter sessions where I don't want to set up my p-gram and ZG chair.

 

We hear a lot of complaints about "neck problems" using straight-through binos on tripods for mounted astronomy, and I get it, but many targets can be situated in the sky within the range of comfort with a little planning.  Maybe I'm a bit spoiled because I still have reatively dark skies and zenith viewing isn't all that necessary if I time my objects right.  If you really need to get up closer to zenith out of the "comfort zone", your tripod/head setup tilted back on two legs while you're seated can still be quite satisfactory. 

 

I use mounted higher mag binos, 16x and 22x, for terrestrial spotting use for wildlife viewing and scenery as well as astronomy, so a good tripod/head is always handy.

[DaveL]

The Omegon Kolossus has a longer arm. It is expensive unfortunately. If it were me, I would buy it because I think my parallelogram mount was my best astronomy purchase ever. In fact I have two, so I can mount one binocular on the right and one on the left and can easily switch back and forth between them. I got a unimount parallelogram back in 2004 or 2005. The Farpoint parallelogram was a more recent purchase (2-3 years ago) that I couldn't resist because a used one came up for sale 10 minutes away. In my opinion, the ones where you can lie down on a lounge chair are the way to go. The standing ones hurt my neck (I am more susceptible to this than others, though).

 

-Dave

Edited by DaveL, 12 November 2024 - 03:55 PM.

[donmichaelo]

For many years now, I've found a tall photo tripod and video head is very handy for those shorter sessions where I don't want to set up my p-gram and ZG chair.

 

We hear a lot of complaints about "neck problems" using straight-through binos on tripods for mounted astronomy, and I get it, but many targets can be situated in the sky within the range of comfort with a little planning.  Maybe I'm a bit spoiled because I still have reatively dark skies and zenith viewing isn't all that necessary if I time my objects right.  If you really need to get up closer to zenith out of the "comfort zone", your tripod/head setup tilted back on two legs while you're seated can still be quite satisfactory. 

 

I use mounted higher mag binos, 16x and 22x, for terrestrial spotting use for wildlife viewing and scenery as well as astronomy, so a good tripod/head is always handy.

Ideal would be to have a chair with a horseshoe-shaped seat for the third leg of the tripod, so it may approach us even more

 

The fact, Dave is, that nowadays it's getting harder and harder to find a parallelogram, dont know why...