27 replies to this topic

[AEP64]

Hi, I recently purchased a Sky Watcher StarTravel 102 AZ3 and a Celestron StarSense Explorer 10".   I also purchased Baader 2" BBHS Sitall Mirror Diagonal, Plossl 55mm and 67mm Converter, Nagel 31mm, Ethos 13mm, and Tele Vue 2x Barlow. Now i need to know what filters i should be looking to add to my collection. I am interested in both planets and nebulas, etc...since all new to me, i want to see as much as i can with the equipment i bought.

 

Also, if i hook up my night vision monocular to the scope, is it ok to still use a filter?

 

thanks

[SeattleScott]

Filters are especially critical for night vision but they will be different than what you use for visual because night vision sees different wavelengths than the human eye (which is kind of the point).

For visual, people usually start with a general purpose UHC/Narrowband and maybe add an OIII for planetary nebulae.

[vtornado]

Planets: Moon and Sky glow filter.  Top shelf is Baader. I have a midling one and it works very well on Jupiter banding.  I have not tried it on Mars,  Saturn I didn't notice much improvement.

 

Nebulas:  Narrow Band nebula filter.  Helps on Emission nebula, Like dumbell,  North American ...     It is NOT a replacement for dark skies.

 

No offense, but I think you are buying equipment too rapidly.  Get some observing time under your belt, so you know what works best for YOU and your environment.

 

A 55mm plossl will produce a 10mm exit pupil  in your telescopes, and possibly unbalance the 102 on the barely adequate mount.

Edited by vtornado, 11 November 2024 - 01:05 PM.

[mich_al]

I'd hold off on any filters other than what SeattleScott recommended and for those look into newer version, they have been improved recently.  Maybe also a Baader Moon & skyglow filter.  Especially hold off on any color filters for planetary use, the effects are very very subtle.  If you are a planets observer first spend some time without filters and soon you'll have a better idea what you want.  2" filters are more expensive but allow for easy EP changes when they are on the diagonal.

[AEP64]

Thanks for the replies!! That is some good feedback, especially on the planetary on waiting til i see for myself if i feel its needed. Im still waiting on the Dob to arrive so for now i have been using the 4".  The NV has been amazing so far by itself and can't wait to see deeper.  Since i think the 4" will be good for the Nebulas, is there a certain brand or two i should look for Narrow Band nebula filter?  For my NV i bought a Astronomik 6nm Ha filter. 

Edited by AEP64, 11 November 2024 - 01:40 PM.

[Starman1]

Hi, I recently purchased a Sky Watcher StarTravel 102 AZ3 and a Celestron StarSense Explorer 10".   I also purchased Baader 2" BBHS Sitall Mirror Diagonal, Plossl 55mm and 67mm Converter, Nagel 31mm, Ethos 13mm, and Tele Vue 2x Barlow. Now i need to know what filters i should be looking to add to my collection. I am interested in both planets and nebulas, etc...since all new to me, i want to see as much as i can with the equipment i bought.

 

Also, if i hook up my night vision monocular to the scope, is it ok to still use a filter?

 

thanks

Yes, you can try a hydrogen alpha (H-α) filter for the night vision.

 

It's worthless for visual, though.

here are some basic recommendations:

 

Planets: First Choice: Baader Contrast Booster.  Best on Mars and Saturn, very good on Jupiter.

              Second Choice: Baader Moon&Sky Glow filter. Best on Jupiter, OK on Saturn, so-so on Mars.

 

Nebulae:  First choice: Narrowband filter that passes both O-III lines and the hydrogen Beta (H-ß) line in the spectrum.

                                     Examples: Astronomik UHC, Tele Vue Bandmate II Nebustar, Lumicon UHC, DGM NPB, Orion Ultrablock (if you can find one left in dealer stock), Thousand Oaks LP-2

                                     Filter works on all emission nebulae, especially the large hydrogen (H-II) gas clouds where stars are forming, but also planetary nebulae, supernova remnants, et.al.

                                     Retail prices $80-$150 in 1.25", $180-$350 in 2"

                Additional filter of use (purchase later as a second filter): O-III filter that passes the 2 O-III lines in the spectrum

                                     Examples: Astronomik O-III Visual, Tele Vue BandMate II O-III, Lumicon O-III

                                     Filter works on planetary nebulae, Wolf-Rayet excitation nebulae, supernova remnants, but not very well on the big H-II gas clouds

 

For all other objects in the sky, the best filter is gasoline--you put it in your car and drive your scope to darker skies.

 

Star clusters can be viewed under brighter skies IF enough magnification is used, perhaps around 2x the magnification you would use under dark skies.

The reason that works is because the sky background in the eyepiece gets darker with magnification, but the stars do not.  That increases contrast.

Extended objects, though, get dimmer with magnification.

[AEP64]

Yes, you can try a hydrogen alpha (H-α) filter for the night vision.

 

It's worthless for visual, though.

here are some basic recommendations:

 

Planets: First Choice: Baader Contrast Booster.  Best on Mars and Saturn, very good on Jupiter.

              Second Choice: Baader Moon&Sky Glow filter. Best on Jupiter, OK on Saturn, so-so on Mars.

 

Nebulae:  First choice: Narrowband filter that passes both O-III lines and the hydrogen Beta (H-ß) line in the spectrum.

                                     Examples: Astronomik UHC, Tele Vue Bandmate II Nebustar, Lumicon UHC, DGM NPB, Orion Ultrablock (if you can find one left in dealer stock), Thousand Oaks LP-2

                                     Filter works on all emission nebulae, especially the large hydrogen (H-II) gas clouds where stars are forming, but also planetary nebulae, supernova remnants, et.al.

                                     Retail prices $80-$150 in 1.25", $180-$350 in 2"

                Additional filter of use (purchase later as a second filter): O-III filter that passes the 2 O-III lines in the spectrum

                                     Examples: Astronomik O-III Visual, Tele Vue BandMate II O-III, Lumicon O-III

                                     Filter works on planetary nebulae, Wolf-Rayet excitation nebulae, supernova remnants, but not very well on the big H-II gas clouds

 

For all other objects in the sky, the best filter is gasoline--you put it in your car and drive your scope to darker skies.

 

Star clusters can be viewed under brighter skies IF enough magnification is used, perhaps around 2x the magnification you would use under dark skies.

The reason that works is because the sky background in the eyepiece gets darker with magnification, but the stars do not.  That increases contrast.

Extended objects, though, get dimmer with magnification.

Nice options..thanks for all the info and yes, already told the wife once i have gotten more familiar with the equipment we need to go to a couple Dark Sky areas i found online. One is appx 2 hours away and the other about 1.5 hours. I live just north of Tampa area. I see some say they have good results near the water and some say not, that would be a 3rd choice

[idahoeng]

Hello AEP64,

 

I have the ST102 as my only telescope and have been using it for about a year.

 

The one filter I would suggest is a #8 yellow filter.  The cost is under $20.  This will significantly cut down the chromatic aberration when viewing Jupiter and the moon at full aperture.  I don't notice any yellowing of the view when star gazing, although it probably has some effect on the view.  I do notice a yellow tint when using the scope in daylight.

 

To decrease the CA, you can also use the smaller aperture on the objective cap.  That works well too, but also decreases the objective size from 102mm to about 52mm.  I've been successful using that up to 100x magnification.

 

The only other filter I've used is a UHC/Narrowband which I've used very rarely.

 

Here's a link to my initial experiences with this telescope: https://www.cloudyni...startravel-102/.

 

For more of my learning experiences, just search for "idahoeng" for a list of my posts.

 

Have fun and clear skies!

 

IdahoEng

[AEP64]

Hello AEP64,

 

I have the ST102 as my only telescope and have been using it for about a year.

 

The one filter I would suggest is a #8 yellow filter.  The cost is under $20.  This will significantly cut down the chromatic aberration when viewing Jupiter and the moon at full aperture.  I don't notice any yellowing of the view when star gazing, although it probably has some effect on the view.  I do notice a yellow tint when using the scope in daylight.

 

To decrease the CA, you can also use the smaller aperture on the objective cap.  That works well too, but also decreases the objective size from 102mm to about 52mm.  I've been successful using that up to 100x magnification.

 

The only other filter I've used is a UHC/Narrowband which I've used very rarely.

 

Here's a link to my initial experiences with this telescope: https://www.cloudyni...startravel-102/.

 

For more of my learning experiences, just search for "idahoeng" for a list of my posts.

 

Have fun and clear skies!

 

IdahoEng

thanks for the input, i will ck out the link you gave...appreciate it

[AEP64]

Just wanted to mention that my 13mm Ethos and 2" Baader bbhs diagonal arrived yesterday and i tried it last night on the 4" and what a nice improvement over the original 1.25" 10mm.

[AEP64]

Yes, you can try a hydrogen alpha (H-α) filter for the night vision.

 

It's worthless for visual, though.

here are some basic recommendations:

 

Planets: First Choice: Baader Contrast Booster.  Best on Mars and Saturn, very good on Jupiter.

              Second Choice: Baader Moon&Sky Glow filter. Best on Jupiter, OK on Saturn, so-so on Mars.

 

Nebulae:  First choice: Narrowband filter that passes both O-III lines and the hydrogen Beta (H-ß) line in the spectrum.

                                     Examples: Astronomik UHC, Tele Vue Bandmate II Nebustar, Lumicon UHC, DGM NPB, Orion Ultrablock (if you can find one left in dealer stock), Thousand Oaks LP-2

                                     Filter works on all emission nebulae, especially the large hydrogen (H-II) gas clouds where stars are forming, but also planetary nebulae, supernova remnants, et.al.

                                     Retail prices $80-$150 in 1.25", $180-$350 in 2"

                Additional filter of use (purchase later as a second filter): O-III filter that passes the 2 O-III lines in the spectrum

                                     Examples: Astronomik O-III Visual, Tele Vue BandMate II O-III, Lumicon O-III

                                     Filter works on planetary nebulae, Wolf-Rayet excitation nebulae, supernova remnants, but not very well on the big H-II gas clouds

 

For all other objects in the sky, the best filter is gasoline--you put it in your car and drive your scope to darker skies.

 

Star clusters can be viewed under brighter skies IF enough magnification is used, perhaps around 2x the magnification you would use under dark skies.

The reason that works is because the sky background in the eyepiece gets darker with magnification, but the stars do not.  That increases contrast.

Extended objects, though, get dimmer with magnification

@starman1 In an older post you mentioned Baader UHC-S Nebula Filter - 2" as a good Nebula filter to get. You said it is discontinued, but if i can find one would that be first choice still?  Also, to use it with my 13mm Ethos and 31mm Nagler do i need Mounted or non Mounted?

Edited by AEP64, 12 November 2024 - 01:20 PM.

[Starman1]

@starman1 In an older post you mentioned Baader UHC-S Nebula Filter - 2" as a good Nebula filter to get. You said it is discontinued, but if i can find one would that be first choice still?  Also, to use it with my 13mm Ethos and 31mm Nagler do i need Mounted or non Mounted?

The Baader UHC-S is an excellent broadband/LPR/CLS filter.  It transmits a wide swath in the blue and a wide swath in the red.

It works very well in dark skies, and also is my Go-To filter for Messier 20 because it allows both the blue reflection part and the pink emission part to shine through.

It would not be my first choice for brighter skies, though, as the contrast enhancement is quite subtle.

In bright skies, too much light would shine through.

 

For perspective, here is a typical good quality transmission bandwidth in the blue green.  Narrower = higher contrast and more light pollution rejection.

Baader UHC-S  62nm--useful on all nebule that emit or reflect.  

Astronomik UHC  26nm (passes H-ß and both O-III lines)--useful on all emission nebulae

Astronomik O-III  12nm (passes O-III lines only)--useful on high energy emission nebule, like planetaries, supernova remnants, Wolf-Rayet excitation nebulae

Astronomik H-ß   9nm (passes only the H-ß line)--useful on large, faint, low-energy emission nebulae that pass only hydrogen light.

 

Some filters with close to the same bandwidth as the Baader UHC-S:

Castell UHC
Celestron UHC/LPR (same as the Baader UHC-S, but may not be available any more)
Kenko LPR filter type 1
Lumicon Deep Sky (might not be available)
Orion SkyGlow (discontinued, but may be in some dealers' stocks)
SVBONY CLS

Edited by Starman1, 12 November 2024 - 02:06 PM.

[AEP64]

So, if i am understanding it, i would be after a broadband for the darker nights and a separate low band to use when the sky is brighter.  So many choices! I figured i would be using with the Nagler 31mm eyepiece.

[Starman1]

So, if i am understanding it, i would be after a broadband for the darker nights and a separate low band to use when the sky is brighter.  So many choices! I figured i would be using with the Nagler 31mm eyepiece.

You misunderstand.

Broadband filters work best in dark skies, and work poorly in bright skies.

Narrower filters work in both bright and dark skies.

[aeajr]

Hi, I recently purchased a Sky Watcher StarTravel 102 AZ3 and a Celestron StarSense Explorer 10".   I also purchased Baader 2" BBHS Sitall Mirror Diagonal, Plossl 55mm and 67mm Converter, Nagel 31mm, Ethos 13mm, and Tele Vue 2x Barlow. Now i need to know what filters i should be looking to add to my collection. I am interested in both planets and nebulas, etc...since all new to me, i want to see as much as i can with the equipment i bought.

 

Also, if i hook up my night vision monocular to the scope, is it ok to still use a filter?

 

thanks

Filters is a complicated topic.  There are a wide array and they each have their purpose.  Names are not standardized.  For example, one company's UHC filter has narrow bands passing only OIII and H-Beta.  Another company calls theirs a UHC but is a broadband filter.  It passes a wider span of other light.  They are not the same even though they may both be called UHC, ultra high contrast filters.  You have to know what light is being passed, sometimes called called the pass bands.

 

Light pollution filters have mostly lost their effectiveness.  When the street lights were mostly sodium and mercury vapor, they produced light on fairly narrow bands that could be filtered.  Now that everyone is moving to white LEDs, the LP filters have become virtually useless. I have three. They are in the "not used anymore" drawer.

 

I own the DGM NPB and the Thousand Oaks OIII filters and would highly recommend them for viewing nebula.  Some nebula work best with one and some with the other.  But all of David Knisely's recommendations, as noted in the article below, would be good.   They don't do anything for planets. 

 

 

Here is an article that is a quick reference document that will help you understand filters and what people are posting here.  They are well worth the few minutes it will take to read them.

 

Useful Filters For Viewing Deep-Sky Objects

by David Knisely, Prairie Astronomy Club

https://www.prairiea...ep-sky-objects/

 

At the end of the article he makes the following recommendation:

For recommendations, if you can afford only one filter, get a narrowband filter like the DGM NPB, Lumicon UHC, Thousand Oaks Narrowband LP-2, or Orion Ultrablock (whichever is least expensive at the time). If you can afford to get two filters, the OIII makes an excellent companion filter to a narrowband one but remember to use them with an eye that is properly dark adapted and employ averted vision. Filters won’t make the objects brighter, but in many cases, they can make many of them a lot easier to see. Have fun!

 

 

This one may scare you off, but don't let it.  It is a single image that shows the traces of what each of the displayed filters pass in terms of light wavelengths.  Take a few minutes to study the image and understand what it is showing. Take a moment to follow a trace line.  Note where it is high, that means it is passing light in that wavelength.  Where it is low that means it is blocking light.  The key is that the value of filters is measured by what light it blocks and what light it passes.   

http://www.karmalimb...ters/narrow.jpg

 

 

Remember that the nebula doesn't get brighter, the surrounding sky gets darker because the light that is being blocked which creates greater contrast. 

Edited by aeajr, 12 November 2024 - 04:28 PM.

[AEP64]

Thank you both for the replies. I have more reading to do. But it does seem that I should start with a Narrowband and needs to be 2"

[astroclint]

Dgm Npb seconds are the way to go.

http://www.npbfilters.com/seconds.html

[John Huntley]

I found a Lumicon OIII and an Astronomik UHC a useful pair of nebulae filters when I used 2 inch eyepieces, including the 31mm Nagler.

 

I did try the DGM NBP and found that good as well.

 

Now I'm 1.25 inch only and use the Tele Vue Bandmate Type 2 OIII and Lumicon Gen 3 UHC filters in the same role.

 

These are good quality filters and have a cost associated with them but seem effective in a wide range of scope apertures - in my case from 85mm to 254mm.

[AEP64]

I found a Lumicon OIII and an Astronomik UHC a useful pair of nebulae filters when I used 2 inch eyepieces, including the 31mm Nagler.

 

I did try the DGM NBP and found that good as well.

 

Now I'm 1.25 inch only and use the Tele Vue Bandmate Type 2 OIII and Lumicon Gen 3 UHC filters in the same role.

 

These are good quality filters and have a cost associated with them but seem effective in a wide range of scope apertures - in my case from 85mm to 254mm.

may i ask why you changed to the 1.25" from the 2"? 

[AEP64]

Yes, you can try a hydrogen alpha (H-α) filter for the night vision.

 

It's worthless for visual, though.

here are some basic recommendations:

 

Planets: First Choice: Baader Contrast Booster.  Best on Mars and Saturn, very good on Jupiter.

              Second Choice: Baader Moon&Sky Glow filter. Best on Jupiter, OK on Saturn, so-so on Mars.

 

Nebulae:  First choice: Narrowband filter that passes both O-III lines and the hydrogen Beta (H-ß) line in the spectrum.

                                     Examples: Astronomik UHC, Tele Vue Bandmate II Nebustar, Lumicon UHC, DGM NPB, Orion Ultrablock (if you can find one left in dealer stock), Thousand Oaks LP-2

                                     Filter works on all emission nebulae, especially the large hydrogen (H-II) gas clouds where stars are forming, but also planetary nebulae, supernova remnants, et.al.

                                     Retail prices $80-$150 in 1.25", $180-$350 in 2"

                Additional filter of use (purchase later as a second filter): O-III filter that passes the 2 O-III lines in the spectrum

                                     Examples: Astronomik O-III Visual, Tele Vue BandMate II O-III, Lumicon O-III

                                     Filter works on planetary nebulae, Wolf-Rayet excitation nebulae, supernova remnants, but not very well on the big H-II gas clouds

 

For all other objects in the sky, the best filter is gasoline--you put it in your car and drive your scope to darker skies.

 

Star clusters can be viewed under brighter skies IF enough magnification is used, perhaps around 2x the magnification you would use under dark skies.

The reason that works is because the sky background in the eyepiece gets darker with magnification, but the stars do not.  That increases contrast.

Extended objects, though, get dimmer with magnification.

i seem to keep going in circles cause 3 of them seem close...May i ask, if you were to pick one of these 3, which would u go for first and if not in stock a close second between Astronomik UHC, Tele Vue Bandmate II Nebustar, Lumicon UHC. I keep reading thread after thread and all 3 seem to be the top picks.  Right now i am leaning towards the TV

Edited by AEP64, 13 November 2024 - 03:39 PM.

[Starman1]

i seem to keep going in circles cause 3 of them seem close...May i ask, if you were to pick one of these 3, which would u go for first and if not in stock a close second between Astronomik UHC, Tele Vue Bandmate II Nebustar, Lumicon UHC. I keep reading thread after thread and all 3 seem to be the top picks. 

The Astronomik is the most cost-effective.  Its narrowband filter (the UHC) has a narrow blue-green bandwidth and a fairly wide red bandwidth.

The Tele Vue Nebustar (type 2) is made by Astronomik and differs from Astronomik's filter only in that all red wavelengths are blocked.

This results in a little sharper star images, but contrast enhancement is just about the same.

The Lumicon UHC has been a good filter and has a bit of deep red transmission that is otherwise invisible.

 

Personally, I was impressed with the Astronomik, but a bit more impressed with the DGM NPB (which also has a broad red transmission), so I kept the DGM for a narrowband with red and the Tele Vue for a narrowband without red.

 

They are all excellent and the differences very minor.  I might choose solely on price among those 4 filters, but, quality wise (star image quality and consistency from unit to unit),

it's impossible to beat the Astronomik and Tele Vue, and Astronomik will have complete data on the filters based on the serial numbers.

[AEP64]

Thank you for your insight..helped alot

[AEP64]

I wound up ordering the TV. Hopefully I will get it Friday. Any idea if the threads are the same on my Baader diagonal? Then I can use it with my Ethos 13mm as well

Edited by AEP64, 13 November 2024 - 04:41 PM.

[Starman1]

I wound up ordering the TV. Hopefully I will get it Friday. Any idea if the threads are the same on my Baader diagonal? Then I can use it with my Ethos 13mm as well

Yes, the threads are the same as the Baader diagonal--somewhat.

It may not thread in all the way, but it will thread in enough to be safe.

[AEP64]

Cool .thanks...now I need to read up on 102 refractors when using a 2x Barlow as I tried to use it on Saturn and I don't have enough focus travel. Without the Barlow I cannot tell what I'm looking at. I tried a few other planets and same issue and the moon is too close. Moon looks great without it. Is the strictly a Nebula scope? For the money should i have just done a 8" edge HD and called it a day...I still have time to cancel my dob order and everything I bought so far will work on a SCT