36 replies to this topic

[Job99]

I'm trying to find the easiest solution to bring my 17.5 parfocal to the other Morphei as well as the APM 30 UFF. I have already made the UFF parfocal to the majority Morphs by using a 2" spacer. Now that I have a 17.5 Morph I want to get an adapter I can leave on it to make it like a 2" eyepiece but parfocal. I have heard that the Televue in-travel adapter works but I have also heard that it doesn't have threads for filters. I remember reading about an adapter that Baader makes that has threads for filters and might even be closer to parfocal than the Televue adapter. Is this information correct and is this the correct one?

 

https://agenaastro.c...bUaApl3EALw_wcB

 

Also, if this is the correct adapter, would a 2 "inch filter be safe from the bottom of the eyepiece hitting it upon insertion? (I've seen such poor designs I never assume anything anymore!)

[ji4m]

I use the Morphs as 1.25" EPs.  So for me, I need spacers (imagine 3.5mm thick washers with a 1.25" hole) for the rest of the fleet.

I have tried O-rings, but came away unsatified with the way they seated.  Can't exactly explain why.

If I had made the jump to 3-D printing, this would be easy.  I would pay someone to make those for me.

 

(Don't quote me on the 3.5mm.  I would need to check my notes.)

[Neanderthal]

I 3D-printed 2.5mm spacers for all the other Morpheus EP's so they are parfocal to the 17.5mm, works fantastic. Obtained a parfocal ring from Astromania for the 30mm UFF (would have 3d printed that as well, but printer is broke, lol). Do you have access to a 3D printer?

[rgk901]

think it's 2.5mm... I used rubber 2.5mm o rings on the rest to bring them all to the 17.5...although there is still some minor adjustments needed between them.

there may be some better 2.5mm rings that could be found but never bothered

[ji4m]

Thank you for the correction to 2.5mm thickness.  I have measured it, it is in my notes which are presently a challenge to access.  I was working from memory.

[ji4m]

I 3D-printed 2.5mm spacers for all the other Morpheus EP's so they are parfocal to the 17.5mm, works fantastic. Obtained a parfocal ring from Astromania for the 30mm UFF (would have 3d printed that as well, but printer is broke, lol). Do you have access to a 3D printer?

No access to a 3-D printer on my own.  Gotta believe that is out there for anyone, at what Staples?

[ji4m]

Kinda half surprised Baader doesn't have a set.  They seem to have endless accessories.

I believe there is a Morph EP population that would buy a set.  A little DIY with double-stick tape at best.  No need for a set screw.

[Neanderthal]

No access to a 3-D printer on my own.  Gotta believe that is out there for anyone, at what Staples?

I've always wondered why Baader just didn't revise all the other EP's and add that 2.5mm to the existing barrels. They probably have a good reason, though it eludes me. Not like it would add any cost to the product or a re-design.

[Kerste]

Kinda half surprised Baader doesn't have a set.

Maybe not a set, but I have just bought a whole lot of Pushfix-adapters for 1.25" eyepieces (including two Morpheus) and 2" set rings to bring the eyepieces in our observatory to the same focus setting (plus some headless screws so that noone will remove the set rings). A colleague is printing some rings to fill the gaps, so that it looks better.

[Job99]

Unfortunately I don't have 3D printing. I don't think I know of anyone who does either so I might be out of luck there. I should also clarify, I am using the 6.5 - 12.5mm focal lengths as 1.25" eyepieces fitting into a 2" to 1.25" twist lock adapter. I was mainly trying to figure out if the adapter in the link I provided would bring the 17.5mm Morpheus to parfocality if I used that adapter directly in the 2" focuser instead. If it works and would pair with 2" filters without getting hit by the inserted eyepiece, then this adapter is what I want and would leave it permanently attached to the 17.5mm.

[Job99]

Maybe not a set, but I have just bought a whole lot of Pushfix-adapters for 1.25" eyepieces (including two Morpheus) and 2" set rings to bring the eyepieces in our observatory to the same focus setting (plus some headless screws so that noone will remove the set rings). A colleague is printing some rings to fill the gaps, so that it looks better.

It looks like your pushfix adapter link is the same item as in my link. What Morpheus eyepieces did you use it with?

[Jon Isaacs]

The difference between the 17.5 mm Morpheus and the others is minimal.  For me, It is not worth worrying about.  None of them are truly parfocal the way nearly all the Type 6 Naglers are.  And even then, finding best focus for the individual eyepiece is desirable.  

 

Jon

[Neanderthal]

The difference between the 17.5 mm Morpheus and the others is minimal.  For me, It is not worth worrying about.  None of them are truly parfocal the way nearly all the Type 6 Naglers are.  And even then, finding best focus for the individual eyepiece is desirable.  

 

Jon

This is true. Even with them being equalized with the 2.5mm ring, there are some nights I can pop them in the holder and not have to touch the focuser knob, and some nights I have to tweak the focus 1/2mm or more. Some of that might be the Seeing conditions but I think it has more to do with my eyesight.

[ji4m]

The difference between the 17.5 mm Morpheus and the others is minimal.  For me, It is not worth worrying about.  None of them are truly parfocal the way nearly all the Type 6 Naglers are.  And even then, finding best focus for the individual eyepiece is desirable.  

 

Jon

While I agree, and refocusing is not a challenge, I spend much time and money on this hobby, not to figure a low cost tweak to improve the experience.

[Starman1]

I'm trying to find the easiest solution to bring my 17.5 parfocal to the other Morphei as well as the APM 30 UFF. I have already made the UFF parfocal to the majority Morphs by using a 2" spacer. Now that I have a 17.5 Morph I want to get an adapter I can leave on it to make it like a 2" eyepiece but parfocal. I have heard that the Televue in-travel adapter works but I have also heard that it doesn't have threads for filters. I remember reading about an adapter that Baader makes that has threads for filters and might even be closer to parfocal than the Televue adapter. Is this information correct and is this the correct one?

 

https://agenaastro.c...bUaApl3EALw_wcB

 

Also, if this is the correct adapter, would a 2 "inch filter be safe from the bottom of the eyepiece hitting it upon insertion? (I've seen such poor designs I never assume anything anymore!)

• The 17.5mm Morpheus focuses 2.5mm farther in than all the other focal lengths of Morpheus.
• As such, all the other focal lengths of Morpheus need an adapter 2.5mm taller than the adapter used with the 17.5mm to make them parfocal, or the 17.5mm needs an adapter 2.5mm shorter to make it parfocal with the others.
• Most adapters are 9.5mm to 10.5mm tall.  There are some outliers, but that is the normal range.
• Using an adapter shorter in height than one 2.5mm shorter than the adapter you use will mean the 17.5mm will focus farther out than the other focal lengths.
• You will not be able to find a 7 to 8mm tall adapter.  I could not find one in the market.  The closest I could come to one is the Astrosystems adapter, which is 6mm tall, which is what I use.  The 17.5mm, therefore, focuses a bit farther out than the other focal lengths, but not so much the extra out focus is a bother.
• Baader's Twist-Lock adapter is too close to the height of most other adapters, and their Push-Fix adapter is too short.
• If not using the Astrosystems adapter, then I recommend the Tele Vue In-Travel adapter which, because the Morpheus sits on its outer lip, is 4mm tall.
• Unfortunately, using a spacer on the eyepiece is not a solution, as this will require MORE in travel of the eyepiece and make it even less parfocal from the other focal lengths.  If you added 2.5mm spacers to the other focal lengths, then they, too, would require the 2.5mm additional in-focus and become parfocal with the 17.5mm.

I do recommend the Astrosystems adapter, though:

--it is threaded for 2" filters

--it is long, so there is no risk for the 2" filters

--it has a smooth side without an undercut, so slides in and out without a snag.

--its stainless steel thumbscrew is long enough it is well outside the eyepiece's upper barrel

 

For those who use a Paracorr, the 17.5mm will not come to focus in the Paracorr because it requires a setting below A, which is impossible.

The Astrosystems adapter is the easy cure, because it then allows the eyepiece to focus in the range of the Paracorr's Tunable Top, and fairly close to all the other focal lengths (which use setting A with the 10.5mm tall Paracorr adapter).

 

The link to Astrosystems adapters:

https://astrosystems...ieceadapter.htm

It's the one on the right, not the left.  The one on the left is incompatible with the Morpheus eyepieces.

 

The APM 30mm UFF focuses 15.24mm farther out than the 4.5-14mm Morpheus eyepieces, and 17.7mm farther out than the 17.5mm Morpheus.

You cannot add that much spacer to the UFF's barrel to make it parfocal with the Morpheus eyepieces.

The best you can safely do is to all, perhaps, 10mm of parfocalizing rings to its 2" barrel to bring its focus point 10mm farther in.

That would make it focus only 5mm (+/-) above the Morpheus eyepieces.  Adding more than 10mm to the UFF's barrel would reduce the barrel insert to an unsafe length, in my opinion,

unless you add a 2" barrel extender to the eyepiece and use a parfocalizing ring on the barrel.

 

Conclusion: 

--the best way to make the 17.5mm focus closer to the other Morpheus eyepieces is to use a shorter adapter and merely slide the 17.5mm out of the adapter slightly to make it focus at the same place as the others.

To that end, the Astrosystems adapter comes closer than any other and you could replace the thumbscrew with a set screw to quasi-permanently attach it to the 17.5mm.

--the 2nd best way is to add 2.5mm barrel spacers to all the other focal lengths of Morpheus so they require the additional 2.5mm of in-focus.

--the 30mm UFF cannot be safely parfocalized with the others unless you add a 2" barrel extender and a parfocalizing ring.  Then you can safely pull it out until it requires enough additional in-travel

to get it to the focal point of the Morpheus eyepieces.

Edited by Starman1, 13 November 2024 - 10:23 AM.

[SeattleScott]

I've always wondered why Baader just didn't revise all the other EP's and add that 2.5mm to the existing barrels. They probably have a good reason, though it eludes me. Not like it would add any cost to the product or a re-design.

Currently the other focal lengths are parfocal with many eyepieces, like XWs, SWs, Hyperions, many Meade/Celestron options, etc. If I had some other eyepieces and wanted to fill a gap with a Morpheus, I might want something parfocal with the rest of my set.

[Jon Isaacs]

While I agree, and refocusing is not a challenge, I spend much time and money on this hobby, not to figure a low cost tweak to improve the experience.

 

I spend a lot of time observing and have a fair amount invested in gear etc.

 

There are things that improve the experience but making the Morpheus eyepieces more parfocal than they already are is not one of them..

 

I'm going to refocus every time I swap eyepieces even if they're truly parfocal. 

 

And it's a non-trivial effort since it involves using an additional adapter and keeping the adapter I use with the particular scope and the adapter I would be using for the 17.5 mm Morpheus separate. And it couldram having an additional adapter for each scope

 

 And then there's the whole Paracorr setting thing which is one reason why I would be using adapters rather than trying to use parfocalizing rings with the other Morpheus's and standardized adapters with my other scopes.

 

But that's just me. 

 

Jon

[Kerste]

It looks like your pushfix adapter link is the same item as in my link. What Morpheus eyepieces did you use it with?

9, 12.5 and 17.5mm Morpheus.

 

The other 1.25" eyepieces are

14 mm Pentax
11mm Explore Scientific
10mm Classic Ortho

 

And in 2":

40 mm Pentax XW 2“
26mm Masuyama
20mm Explore Scientific 100°

 

The 2" Explore Scientific is the most problematic as it has to be inserted deepest into focuser, leaving almost no backfocus. For the other eyepieces, there are gaps between 3mm (Pentax 40mm) and 11.5mm (11mm Explore Scientific) between Pushfix/Stop ring and eyepiece.

[Job99]

Wow, many thanks to each of you for all of your valued input! Don, your explanation was particularly on point for my dilemma and I thank you for offering as many solutions as you could find. Your willingness to go that detailed was very helpful. That Astrosystems adapter modified to a set screw is probably just what I would like. Thanks for that idea!

 

I also appreciate many of you suggesting the 2.5mm spacer idea. That also sounds like a reasonable possibility. I'm happy to know that there are a couple ways to get this figured out. I might just put the ideas down on my Christmas list as an "either/or" and we will see what happens!

[lakland5]

<snip from Starman1's post>

--the 30mm UFF cannot be safely parfocalized with the others unless you add a 2" barrel extender and a parfocalizing ring.  Then you can safely pull it out until it requires enough additional in-travel

to get it to the focal point of the Morpheus eyepieces.

<snip>

 

Thanks, Don!   The last time I went observing I used almost exclusively the 30mmUFF (which I bought from you, thanks for that as well, great EP) and the 9mm Morpheus, and wondered what it would take to get near-parfocality.   When I found this thread this morning I was not expecting to see anything on the 30mm but this is just what I needed.

CN is great due to the depth of the experience and knowledge members share with such generosity.

--RicA

 

Edited by lakland5, 15 November 2024 - 06:34 AM.

[Neanderthal]

.........

 

For those who use a Paracorr, the 17.5mm will not come to focus in the Paracorr because it requires a setting below A, which is impossible.

The Astrosystems adapter is the easy cure, because it then allows the eyepiece to focus in the range of the Paracorr's Tunable Top, and fairly close to all the other focal lengths (which use setting A with the 10.5mm tall Paracorr adapter).

 

The link to Astrosystems adapters:

https://astrosystems...ieceadapter.htm

It's the one on the right, not the left.  The one on the left is incompatible with the Morpheus eyepieces.

 

The APM 30mm UFF focuses 15.24mm farther out than the 4.5-14mm Morpheus eyepieces, and 17.7mm farther out than the 17.5mm Morpheus.

You cannot add that much spacer to the UFF's barrel to make it parfocal with the Morpheus eyepieces.

The best you can safely do is to all, perhaps, 10mm of parfocalizing rings to its 2" barrel to bring its focus point 10mm farther in.

That would make it focus only 5mm (+/-) above the Morpheus eyepieces.  Adding more than 10mm to the UFF's barrel would reduce the barrel insert to an unsafe length, in my opinion,

unless you add a 2" barrel extender to the eyepiece and use a parfocalizing ring on the barrel.

 

Conclusion: 

--the best way to make the 17.5mm focus closer to the other Morpheus eyepieces is to use a shorter adapter and merely slide the 17.5mm out of the adapter slightly to make it focus at the same place as the others.

To that end, the Astrosystems adapter comes closer than any other and you could replace the thumbscrew with a set screw to quasi-permanently attach it to the 17.5mm.

--the 2nd best way is to add 2.5mm barrel spacers to all the other focal lengths of Morpheus so they require the additional 2.5mm of in-focus.

--the 30mm UFF cannot be safely parfocalized with the others unless you add a 2" barrel extender and a parfocalizing ring.  Then you can safely pull it out until it requires enough additional in-travel

to get it to the focal point of the Morpheus eyepieces.

 

Don,

Out of curiosity and boredom (one hazard of winter in the midwest), I've got a TV Paracorr 1 (PVL-2008) coming to compare to the GSO coma corrector. I added 2.5mm spacers to the Morphie's long ago, except for the 17.5mm, and a parfocal ring to the APM 30mm UFF.

 

 

I'm a little confused as to your statement of needing more barrel length for the APM to make it parfocal with the Morphie's, mine comes to focus fine and holds well in the clamp at this distance. 

 

Anyway, If I'm understanding your other info about the in-travel requirement of the 17.5mm EP, sounds like I should just get the AstroSysystems EP clamp (my current ES clamp is 10mm tall). Since all the other EP's have the 2.5mm spacer, I should just be able to use the Astrosystems clamp with all the Morphie's, correct? I'm attaching a photo of the Astrosystems page with the two 2"x1.25" adapters, but the adapter on the left side looks like the recessed adapter one would need for the Morpheus?

 

[Starman1]

1) The adapter on the left is incompatible with the Morpheus eyepieces, so it is the one on the right I am recommending.

2) You obviously can make the 30mm UFF parfocal, but I would feel nervous with only 16.9mm inserted with that heavy an eyepiece.  I would prefer at least 25mm inserted, hence my comment about adding a barrel extender to the bottom of the 2" barrel.

[Starman1]

Don,

Out of curiosity and boredom (one hazard of winter in the midwest), I've got a TV Paracorr 1 (PVL-2008) coming to compare to the GSO coma corrector. I added 2.5mm spacers to the Morphie's long ago, except for the 17.5mm, and a parfocal ring to the APM 30mm UFF.

 

Morpheus and APM parfocal rings.jpg

 

I'm a little confused as to your statement of needing more barrel length for the APM to make it parfocal with the Morphie's, mine comes to focus fine and holds well in the clamp at this distance. 

 

Anyway, If I'm understanding your other info about the in-travel requirement of the 17.5mm EP, sounds like I should just get the AstroSysystems EP clamp (my current ES clamp is 10mm tall). Since all the other EP's have the 2.5mm spacer, I should just be able to use the Astrosystems clamp with all the Morphie's, correct? I'm attaching a photo of the Astrosystems page with the two 2"x1.25" adapters, but the adapter on the left side looks like the recessed adapter one would need for the Morpheus?

 

AstroSystems Adapters.jpg

I just saw you have a PVL-2008 Paracorr.

 

That's fine, but the correct position for the Morpheus eyepieces will all be below the in-most setting of the Tunable Top with the 9.5mm tall flat-top adapter that comes with the Paracorr.

The Paracorr 2 adjusts to -10.16mm (below the focal plane of the Paracorr), whereas the Paracorr 1 only goes to -6.35mm.

The Astrosystems adapter gains you 9.5-6.35=3.15mm, so the effective height would be -9.5mm in the in-most position.

For the 4.5-14mm Morpheus, you need a position of 0 (3rd position on the tunable top in the PVL-2008) MINUS the height of the adapter, whichever adapter is used.

That would put the 4.5-14mm Morpheus eyepieces exactly at the in-most setting of the tunable top with the Astrosystems flat-top adapter, with no rings on the eyepieces.

Great.

 

But, the 17.5mm Morpheus needs to move in 2.5mm farther than that, which is impossible with the Astrosystems adapter.  You need an even lower-height adapter (6.35-2.5 = 3.85mm).

The adapters with even less height than the Astrosystems adapter are just a bit too tall (the Tele Vue In-Travel adapter, for example, over 4mm tall with the Morpheus eyepieces).

 

You've already made the Morpheus parfocal with each other, which means they all need the infocus of the 17.5mm, so I recommend the lowest height adapter compatible with all the Morpheus: the Baader Push-Fix adapter.

It's 1mm tall for most 1.25" eyepieces and about 1.5-2mm tall with the Morpheus, which sit on the outer lip of the adapter.

The Push-Fix adapter would actually require some OUT travel of the tunable top, which would put the optimum positions for the eyepieces within the range of the tunable top.

 

So, how would you figure out where the 12.5mm Morpheus, for example, should sit in the Paracorr's adjustment?

Easy.  Put the 12.5mm in the Push-Fix adapter and measure how far above the Paracorr's top the shoulder of the eyepiece sits.  Add the 2.5mm spacer to that measurement.

Let's say it is 4.5mm, hypothetically.  That means the proper setting of the Paracorr's tunable top would be setting 3 (the 0 point) minus 4.5mm.

The tunable top has 5 settings, each one separated from the adjacent settings by 1/8", or 3.175mm (rounded off, 3.2mm).

So the 4.5mm in travel of the tunable top would be about 1/2 of the distance from setting 4 (the next-to-lowest setting) to setting 5 (the lowest setting).

 

Since you've parfocalized all your eyepieces, they should all use that setting.

 

Let me know if anything I just described isn't clear.

[Neanderthal]

....Let me know if anything I just described isn't clear.

Well.... I'm trying to assimilate all that, lol. Thanks for responding again - I was getting ready to order the Astrosystems adapter in a few minutes. Just to be clear, this is what I need?

 

https://agenaastro.c...SUaAsRvEALw_wcB

 

There seems to be a possible issue with the thumbscrew on the Baader unit preventing it from fully seating? Unless the Paracorr 1 has a slot that would accommodate it? I probably won't have the Paracorr 1 on-hand until mid-week but can get the adapter ordered in the mean time.

[Jon Isaacs]

My two cents:

 

2.5 mm is a single step in the Paracorr setting.

 

At F/3.5 the exact setting is critical. At F/5, everything is more relaxed. You will be able to focus, the setting may not be optimal but the views will still be very good. 

 

Back in the days before the Paracorr 2, people used the Paracorr 1 with the 31 mm Nagler, it also takes setting A on the Paracorr 2. I was using it in my 12.5 inch F/4.06, 16 inch F/4.4 and 10 inch F/5. No one complained .

 

Jon