118 replies to this topic

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday All

Can anyone with a Meade 494/StarFinder handset pls read what version no it is

and then post here. We are trying to find the latest version issued by Meade

as it may be possible to update old units, but we would like a history of whats out there.

Currently, i know of

1.0f

12Ea

13Ei

sooo, any later than that??

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

[Thrifty1]

I have:
1.0
11E
44E

[Thrifty1]

Here is the 44E

Attached Thumbnails

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[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

Well you are still the leader :-)   ( by a long way )

Be nice to suck its brains out so we can see what it supports

as stepping from 13Ei to 44E is "huuuuuge"

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

[Thrifty1]

I’m nowhere near as tech savvy as you Andrew but I’m happy to extract the firmware if you teach me how to do it.

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

 

IIRC, if you have a 506 cable, you can put the handset into download mode and read its firmware.

That said, if you can make a simple RJ45 Socket based dummy power supply,

by starting the handset using a simple procedure, you can then connect to the handset

using a std TTL level USB converter with the handset is in download mode.

( Note, normal 505s use true rs232, in this case it MUST be TTL level )

If we are correct with this, it should be trivial to update the firmware in old 494s

so at least they can run most ETX/LX90 type mounts.

The 494 has no true "protected" safeload code ( same as Audiostars )

so if it dies when overwriting that one memory segment, you are dead,

but it should be a simple process to update the firmware.

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

 

From what i see in 13Ei, it supports

DS XX      60,70,80,90,114,127
DS 2XXX  60,70,76,80,102,114,130
DS (Mak) 2090,2102
DSX 90,125,
ETX, 60.70.80,90,105,125
LX90

[Thrifty1]

Uh-oh…I realize that all sounded simple to you but it quickly went over my head!!!

I have no idea what TTL level USB converter is.

The Meade cables I have are the ones for the ETX90-105-125 and I have the one for my 10” LX200R. I don’t think either is a #506 cable.

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

I doubt you have a 506 cable, as they are like unicorns now.

but they speak a protocol that isnt recognised by this test.

The std cable you use with yr LX200 will be a 507

and the  ETX will be 505 ( assuming you use it with a 497/Audiostar and plug into the handset )

If so, they are true rs232, so no good unless you add an extra converter from rs232 to TTL :-)

 

I have no idea what TTL level USB converter is

There are two ( main ) standards for "serial" transmission

True rs232 swings between +10volts ( Logic 0 ) and -10Volts ( Logic 1 )

It is very robust and can travel long distances

TTL swings between 0volts ( Logic 0 ) and +3.3or5Volts ( Logic 1 )

ie they are totally incompatible voltage wise.

Either way, i am assuming you arent in a position to do it

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

Edited by OzAndrewJ, 18 November 2024 - 04:03 PM.

[Thrifty1]

Andrew - thank you for the info on TTL.  Yes, I only have the 505 and 507 cables.  

 

Unfortunately it does not look like something I can easily help you with.  

 

If you need me to look at anything in the menus of the 494 I have let me know.

 

Randy 

[Thrifty1]

If anyone has a 506 cable kit they want to send me so I can download the firmware, I can do that and then send it back.

 

I've also reached out to Bill at Telescopes-Warehouse.com to see if he has any 506 cable kits.  I am not finding any used ones online for sale anywhere. 

[summetj]

I've got a version 10E here, it supports ETX-60 and ETX-70 only, following just to see what updates would do.

[Thrifty1]

Andrew, I looked up USB to TTL converters and they are pretty inexpensive. Is this what I would need and what else do I need to make in order to extract the firmware?

If you are able to walk me through how to make the cables needed I’m willing to give it a try.

Im not sure what the “RJ45 Socket based dummy power supply” is that you mentioned. A link / instructions for that would be great.

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by Thrifty1, 19 November 2024 - 07:52 AM.

[Thrifty1]

I am waiting to hear back from someone who has the 506 cable set for sale. Hoping she doesn’t want too much for it.

[Thrifty1]

Bummer - she had the box, CD, and 6-pin to RS-232 serial interface adapter.

But it was missing the 6 foot 4-pin to 6-pin cable with integrated AUX-to-serial converter. It only had a 4-pin to 6-pin cable but no black box in the middle which I’m guessing is the most important part.

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Summetj

following just to see what updates would do.

The main thing would be many older handsets could possibly be updated to work with later models.

Also, you get rolling bug fixes and enhancements  ( if we knew what hey were :-)  )

Whilst not full blown 497s, with Meade gone, restoring use to some old sets may help

people keep their units running.

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

no black box in the middle which I’m guessing is the most important part.

Yep. The 506 "lump" is a dedicated microprocessor that converts serial rs232 signals

into Meades proprietary I2C protocol at TTLlevels.

ie its not an off the shelf item.

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

[Thrifty1]

When turned on it shows:
Ver: Feb 17 2012 14:05:03
Then it shows:
©11 Meade (44E)

When plugged into the ETX80 it shows the following telescopes models as options:
ETX 60
ETX 70
ETX 80
DS2060
DS2070
DS2076
DS2080
D2090
DS2102
DS2114
DS 2130
DSX 90
DSX 102
DSX 125

When plugged into a Meade DS114 it shows different telescopes:

ETX 70
ETX 80
ETX90
ETX 105
ETX 125
LXD 55/75 127
LXD 55/75 152
LXD 55/75 6 New
LXD55/75 8 New
LXD 55/75 10 New
LXD 55/75 8 SC
DS 60
DS 70
DS 80
DS 90
DS 114
DS 127

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

I looked up USB to TTL converters and they are pretty inexpensive. Is this what I would need

Something like that would certainly work.

With the advent of Arduino etc, these things are cheap as chips

another user found these, so even cheaper ( 3 for $9 )

https://www.amazon.c...B08B878T7T?th=1

The main thing is they are TTL voltages

 

Im not sure what the “RJ45 Socket based dummy power supply” is that you mentioned

Basically, you need an 8 pin socket that allows you to access the cables

so you can supply your own power and tap the cables

 

One users Heath Robinson is attached ( you MUST confirm polarity if doing this )

 

This is from a second user who has a control  panel ( that i have never seen before )

that allows access to all the lines using std RJ plugs with pigtails

 

I just use my test bench panel, that can tap anything :-)

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

 

 

 

 

[Thrifty1]

That control panel you haven’t seen is identical to my DS114 panel.

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

Ooohhhhh, you have the LXDs, which means GEMS

 

Basically, the handset talks to a mount on connecting.

The RA card responds with a number ( tied to capability )

The scope models that get supplied is then based on that number.

ie perfectly normal, but you do have a LOT more mounts

than 13Ei

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

[Thrifty1]

Thank you for the updated info. That looks overly complicated for me.

I’d send someone my AutoStar 494 to extract the firmware and send it back but it’s the only one I have for my ETX80 and can’t risk losing it.

The other 2 AutoStar 494’s I have are for two DS114’s I recently picked up for someone who is giving them to grandkids for Christmas gifts.

[Thrifty1]

If someone wants to send me a 506 cable set on loan and you feel you can walk me through extracting the firmware I would be happy to do that and then return the cable set.

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy

That control panel you haven’t seen is identical to my DS114 panel.

In that case, you could do the download using just 2 pigtails to tap into the Alt and Az ports

Normally, the motor cards need to be disconnected,

but in your case getting access to the ports means disconnecting the motor cards anyway

so al you need is 2 off connectors  to go into the ports with exposed pigtails

that can be connected to the converter.

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

[Thrifty1]

Gday Randy

In that case, you could do the download using just 2 pigtails to tap into the Alt and Az ports

Normally, the motor cards need to be disconnected,

but in your case getting access to the ports means disconnecting the motor cards anyway

so al you need is 2 off connectors  to go into the ports with exposed pigtails

that can be connected to the converter.

 

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia

So if I understand correctly...

 

I'd need to find 2 phone cables (one for alt and one for az port) 

Strip the other end of these cables and connect the appropriate wires to the USB to TTL Module Serial Converter from Amazon.  

Connect the USB to end of the USB to TTL module to a computer and somehow extract the firmware

I would need to use my 12v power supply to power the telescope I assume too.  

 

Is there more to it than that?

[OzAndrewJ]

Gday Randy
 

I'd need to find 2 phone cables (one for alt and one for az port)

Strip the other end of these cables and connect the appropriate wires to the USB to TTL Module Serial Converter from Amazon.

Yep, but it only needs 1 "phone" cable,

as when you cut it in half you get 2 pigtails :-)

Each port ( Alt and Az ) will have 4 pins

+12V, Ground, Clock and Data

If the pigtails are fitted, the motors are isolated, so thats OK

What you would need to do is

On the Az pigtail, insulate the +12V line to prevent accidents

                             connect the clock line to the converter Tx

                             connect the ground line to the converter Ground

On the Alt pigtail, insulate the +12V line to prevent accidents

                            connect the clock line to the converter Rx

                            have both data and ground lines free with soldered ends
 

I would need to use my 12v power supply to power the telescope I assume too.

Use whatever you normally use to power it. Nothing special there

 

Is there more to it than that?

Nope

Basically, make the pigtails and use a multimeter to 100% make sure you have the

+12V line identified and insulated

After that,

Plug in the Alt Pigtail only ( do not connect to the converter yet )

Short the data line to ground and boot the mount

It should start up and then the screen will go dim, but you should be able to read

"In Download" on the screen

If you see that, then its working so turn off the mount

Connect the converter and short the data to ground and boot

It should start up again "In Download"

At this point, third party apps ( like my PEC editor and dumper )

can read out the data

Soooooooooo, see where you get to, but 100% double check the

pigtails to avoid touching the +12V lines

Andrew Johansen Melbourne Australia