65 replies to this topic

[John R.]

If it was a classic Questar then yeah, definitely something that is a work of art to be displayed, and that can even be used if you choose to. 
Yeah, I know, they are still sold, but really it is a classic. 

Edited by John R., 22 November 2024 - 03:06 PM.

[havasman]

no

[Weisswurst Josef]

If you can afford it just got for it.

 

I have some very fine classic refractors. Most of them I never have used.

But seeing them and touching them makes me happy. Very happy.

Just my personal treasure. Without a dragon sitting upon it.

It sit`s in front of em and it`s me. With a big smile.

And if they weren`t there, I would miss em.

 

Am very satisfied. Just feels fine. Yes ran a little bit out of space.

Who cares about that ...

I am: excentric, lunatic and happy.

What I enjoy most, is laughing about me.

 

Lot`s of classic things are bought and never used.

It`s the mere joy of having them.

Edited by Weisswurst Josef, 22 November 2024 - 06:14 PM.

[rcwolpert]

Only if it’s a 1964 RV-6 Dynascope in excellent condition, and that is only to bring back so many wonderful memories and to smell the Bakelite once again. Gives me a smile just thinking about it.

[apfever]

Only if it’s a 1964 RV-6 Dynascope in excellent condition, and that is only to bring back so many wonderful memories and to smell the Bakelite once again. Gives me a smile just thinking about it.

LMButtO (the common version was edited).  This is something I've thought about a handful of times already in this thread.  I have had so many people bury their face into one of my RV6 and take a BIG sniff of the tube. I have never seen so many smiles so big come off the tube. If their smile was any bigger then their head would flip back like a PEZ.  Then there is the exhale, the sigh, and the bedroom eyes. Seriously, it's great, so many many times. 

I might have a 64 RV but FL isn't practical from CO. 

Had a 64 Buick with a Fireball for a while in the 80's. 

Edited by apfever, 22 November 2024 - 05:35 PM.

[ccwemyss]

Depends a great deal on the scope and personal circumstances. 

 

I always wanted a C14 to observe with. But I wouldn't buy a pristine, fork-mounted, orange tube C14 to just have.

 

If I didn't have a Questar, I would certainly consider buying one to admire if I was past the point where I could still observe, especially since they are out of production. It's both small and beautiful. As I've said in other threads, it's probably the one I will keep to the end. 

 

I could certainly understand if someone wanted to have a pretty Clark to put on display. Personally, I'd be nervous about taking a historic scope out for observing anyway. 

 

There is some validity to the idea that a scope should be used. But there is also validity to the idea that someone can be a temporary admiring caretaker for a scope along its journey to a future user. 

 

Chip W. 

[RichA]

Few will drag 150 year old telescopes outside to use.  They tend to be cumbersome and not as good as decent modern scopes. 

 

Interesting choice of comparisons. This one is right at 150 years old. It was made no earlier than 1872 and no later than 1880. It is a J. Swift high powered medical bino scope. It has a mono lens but uses a beam splitter that can be slid in or out of the light path. Everything on it works perfectly, original finish.  I made the display case. I have used the scope but have more practical ones for my needs. 

 

"However, if it's a decent telescope, better better-off in the hands of someone who will use it."

Absolutely disagree. Collecting scopes is no different than collecting coins or cars. Coins are ones you would never spend and cars may be more than you can drive. Collecting old tools that work perfectly....pick your fancy.  There is no shortage of decent scopes (in general) and no one is going to be denied views because someone doesn't share their vintage classic regularly. Mine get shared every time someone comes through the door and admires or enjoys them as is. That includes several regulars in this forum.  No different than Concourse Cars that are never really driven. People who think concourse restorations are wasted time need to back off their blinders. "Collection" usually entails more of something than a person has practical use for.

 

I share my collection inside and share the views outside if I can. 

Practicality will out, like I said, coins are one thing;  once you can't spend them, they are just ornaments, though they can have huge value, they have zero practical use except perhaps a store of wealth.  But (as an example) some Astro-Physics telescopes function as both a worthwhile observing scope and as a store of wealth.  Most people won't bother hauling out a Clark refractor because its day as an observational scope has passed and now it is more or less no different than an old coin. In the case of the AP, it's better it's with someone who can use it and not sitting idle, on a pedestal in a living room.

[Terra Nova]

If it was a classic Questar then yeah, definitely something that is a work of art to be displayed, and that can even be used if you choose to. 
Yeah, I know, they are still sold, but really it is a classic. 

Naw, I just sold mine. It just wasn’t getting the use it deserved. I can only remember using it twice. I was always instead opting for one of my refractors or just a simple binocular. Let’s face it, I’m just a simple refractor girl! As beautiful and cool as it was, it was way too much money to have as an ornament. It was my second Q. There won’t be a third. I sold the first one for the same reasons. I’ve really been paring things back and I feel really good about it. It went to a fellow CN member here who will appreciate it and use it. And it was a nice face-to-face hand-off. The best kind of transaction.  I hate being tied to things and I have several remodeling projects for my condo that I’d rather put the money in.

Edited by Terra Nova, 22 November 2024 - 07:13 PM.

[RichA]

Naw, I just sold mine. It just wasn’t getting the use it deserved. I can only remember using it twice. I was always instead opting for one of my refractors or just a simple binocular. Let’s face it, I’m just a simple refractor girl! As beautiful and cool as it was, it was way too much money to have as an ornament. It was my second Q. There won’t be a third. I sold the first one for the same reasons. I’ve really been paring things back and I feel really good about it. It went to a fellow CN member here who will appreciate it and use it. And it was a nice face-to-face hand-off. The best kind of transaction.  I hate being tied to things and I have several remodeling projects for my condo that I’d rather put the money in.

I've had 5 Questars, great user scopes, sold them all eventually, but they are a good example of a scope that won't be past its prime because if it's kept in good working condition, it's very easy to use. No one knows what the future will hold, but I do not see scopes produced in the last 50 years as being outdated the way a 100 year old scope might be.  The difference between a Q Standard or Duplex and a 4 inch Unitron is that no one will likely ever consider the Questar to be cluttering up living space.

[Terra Nova]

I've had 5 Questars, great user scopes, sold them all eventually, but they are a good example of a scope that won't be past its prime because if it's kept in good working condition, it's very easy to use. No one knows what the future will hold, but I do not see scopes produced in the last 50 years as being outdated the way a 100 year old scope might be.  The difference between a Q Standard or Duplex and a 4 inch Unitron is that no one will likely ever consider the Questar to be cluttering up living space.

Having had both the 4” Unitron and the Questar, I’d take the Questar hand’s down. The Unitron actually was a display scope for me for a number of years and it took up an entire corner of my dining room. My point however, is that in my life today, there are things that are more practical. To really appreciate a Questar, one must be in a situation to take full advantage of its use as an equatorial, tracking platform. It needs to be on a very stable tripod, with an AC outlet (both mine were AC) or you have to drag out a power supply. And you have to be in a decent position to polar align it. Access to either of of the two weren’t easy from my balcony. What I thought would be eminently practical for me wasn’t. In everything else, I use alt-az mounts. You can do that with a Questar, but then you are giving up a big reason to have the Questar to begin with. My alt-az mounted 90mm to 60mm refractors are just so much more practical for me anymore. And having used refractors all my life, I’m just so much more comfortable with them. So as lovely as the Q’s were, and as much as I tried to love both of them and make them work for me, I could just never get beyond the honeymoon with either.

Edited by Terra Nova, 22 November 2024 - 08:04 PM.

[Terra Nova]

Say there was a classic scope that you wanted all your life, many years ago, and was never able to get it because of money, availability, etc. Years have gone by, and you do not observe anymore. Then all of a sudden you see this scope you wanted for so many years, appears at a very good price. Knowing you would never use it, would you buy it?

So is this all hypothetical or is there such a scope? If so, why all the beating about the bush, just tell us what it is. Then we can spare you all the allegorical tales and give you some decent, practical advice.

Edited by Terra Nova, 22 November 2024 - 08:09 PM.

[Piero DP]

As a minimalistic person, I would say no because owning things I don't use tends to cause me stress.

Said this people are different and I don't know you..

Why do you think you will never use this telescope?
Also, what telescope are you talking about?

[Max Headroom]

Interesting choice of comparisons. This one is right at 150 years old. It was made no earlier than 1872 and no later than 1880. It is a J. Swift high powered medical bino scope. It has a mono lens but uses a beam splitter that can be slid in or out of the light path. Everything on it works perfectly, original finish.  I made the display case. I have used the scope but have more practical ones for my needs. 

 

"However, if it's a decent telescope, better better-off in the hands of someone who will use it."

Absolutely disagree. Collecting scopes is no different than collecting coins or cars. Coins are ones you would never spend and cars may be more than you can drive. Collecting old tools that work perfectly....pick your fancy.  There is no shortage of decent scopes (in general) and no one is going to be denied views because someone doesn't share their vintage classic regularly. Mine get shared every time someone comes through the door and admires or enjoys them as is. That includes several regulars in this forum.  No different than Concourse Cars that are never really driven. People who think concourse restorations are wasted time need to back off their blinders. "Collection" usually entails more of something than a person has practical use for.

 

I share my collection inside and share the views outside if I can. 

Man, I'm digging the brass mscope!

Collecting, without using, I think is the norm for most things collected.
For me, collecting is about the hunt.  Once the hunt is over, it's not quite as fun.  Still for many things in my various collections, there is some pride in ownership, and displayability, but that's all secondary.  The hunt is the most interesting part.

[98105dude]

An RV-6 of that vintage was my first significant scope. I bought it used through the Sky & Telescope classifieds from a nice fellow in Colorado in the mid- late '60s. Man, I spent countless hours in my Seattle driveway over the next several years exploring the Universe through it. I'd forgotten that smell - thanks!

[RichA]

Having had both the 4” Unitron and the Questar, I’d take the Questar hand’s down. The Unitron actually was a display scope for me for a number of years and it took up an entire corner of my dining room. My point however, is that in my life today, there are things that are more practical. To really appreciate a Questar, one must be in a situation to take full advantage of its use as an equatorial, tracking platform. It needs to be on a very stable tripod, with an AC outlet (both mine were AC) or you have to drag out a power supply. And you have to be in a decent position to polar align it. Access to either of of the two weren’t easy from my balcony. What I thought would be eminently practical for me wasn’t. In everything else, I use alt-az mounts. You can do that with a Questar, but then you are giving up a big reason to have the Questar to begin with. My alt-az mounted 90mm to 60mm refractors are just so much more practical for me anymore. And having used refractors all my life, I’m just so much more comfortable with them. So as lovely as the Q’s were, and as much as I tried to love both of them and make them work for me, I could just never get beyond the honeymoon with either.

I think the reason I found them comfortable to use was partly the excellent mechanics, but also the fact I "grew up" observationally with a C8 so I was used to using a long focal length telescope. Sometimes, I'd just sight along the tube of the C8 to point at bright visible things and a lot of people used to much wider field scopes would find that daunting.   

[John R.]

You know, I have a Minox IIIs. Along with a measuring chain and case, binocular adapter and a few other what nots. And yes, I have film cartridges for it, a film slitter, developing reels and tanks and my HC110 is still good along with Ilford fixer. 

Haven't shot with it for years but it is still a great conversation piece. It is a fine testament to the design of Walter Zapp. It's pretty and makes nice mechanical sounds (but softly). I still get joy dry firing the shutter and playing with it occasionally......so I keep it. 

I know we are not talking about cameras, but I believe the principal is the same. 

 

Edit; But I really understand the person who chooses the opposite path. There is logic in that choice too.....for the right kind of person. 

Edited by John R., 23 November 2024 - 11:42 AM.

[abe]

Maybe it's not so black and white.  What if you enjoy looking at your scope on a day-to-day basis and look through it every once in a while to enjoy the moon and planets.   Is that so wrong?  I agree that there are good reasons for both decisions but from the wistful tone of your note, I kinda think maybe you should do what makes you happy.  

Edited by abe, 23 November 2024 - 03:08 AM.

[CHASLX200]

The U is the best scope to look at bar none.  

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[Terra Nova]

Maybe it's not so black and white.  What if you enjoy looking at your scope on a day-to-day basis and look through it every once in a while to enjoy the moon and planets.   Is that so wrong?  I agree that there are good reasons for both decisions but from the wistful tone of your note, I kinda think maybe you should do what makes you happy.  

What I originally said in answer to the OP was: “Absolutely not. I don’t believe in owning telescopes just to have them. If I don’t use a scope fairly regularly, I want somebody else to have it. Grasping at possessions just for the sake of holding on to them only ties you down.”

 

Perhaps I should have said: “Grasping at possessions just for the sake of holding on to them only ties me down.”  

 

I was speaking of my own personal perceptions and experiences and I should have made my last sentence sound personal. Instead, I agree, it makes my response sound judgmental and that was not my intent. I don’t think it wrong for anyone to have a telescope just to look at. Some are definitely more attractive than others. But regardless of how pleasing one is to look at, it was built (I’m not talking about the Indian knock-offs here) to be used to look through, not at, and that even applies to Questars and Unitrons. If a person want’s to buy a wrench and use it expressly as a paperweight on there desk so they can look at it daily, that’s fine with me, but it’s not me. I buy art for art’s sake and tools to use. I went for a long time having a lot of very collectable, some fairly rare telescopes. Many more than I could practically use. I had a big house and they wound up sitting in corners of rooms on display, and filling closets and basement shelves. Then for some reason, I woke up one morning some years ago and asked myself why? I had no valid answer and was sick of walking around tripods, and so they started to go. And they went! Almost all of them. I have never looked back, and it’s a good thing that I did release them back into the wild, because I moved into a much smaller place and there would have been no room for them. Now I have room for everything. That makes me happy. I have two classic telescopes today. I use them both, neither is a display telescope, although a single telescope often sits out, set up and awaiting use, in front of my big window and door out on my balcony. I am living a more frugal, minimalist, practical life. But my comments here and in other threads on this topic or on what are my favorite instruments, are all about me and what works for me, they aren’t about anyone else. Everyone must and should do what makes them happy and works for them, not me.

Edited by Terra Nova, 23 November 2024 - 09:22 AM.

[grif 678]

So is this all hypothetical or is there such a scope? If so, why all the beating about the bush, just tell us what it is. Then we can spare you all the allegorical tales and give you some decent, practical advice.

It is kind of both, but more hypothetical. I just see scopes at times that I would want, but knowing I would not use them, have let them pass by. But as I keep seeing them, there is something in me that says I need that, probably just to look at. But at my age, practicality takes over. I was just wondering if others have this problem, and what would they do. But I guess if the right smaller scope came by, and it was something I wanted real bad, and it was a great price, I probably would jump on it. I have sold a few scopes that I never used, just to later wish I had them back, just to look at some more.But I would not do that now.

[abe]

I was speaking of my own personal perceptions and experiences and I should have made my last sentence sound personal. Instead, I agree, it makes my response sound judgmental and that was not my intent. 

I didn't think that you sounded judgmental at all.  I think you (and the other respondents) were simply speaking from your own experience and viewpoint.  

Personally, I generally tend to be "anti-stuff" as well.   However, the OP spoke in such a thoughtful tone about something that he had dreamed of for so many years that it seemed that he might regret passing this up.  Sometimes "tools" transcend their purpose and become "art". Every once in a while, things transcend their material existence and become touchstones of our personal histories. This seemed like perhaps one of those rare cases.

Edited by abe, 23 November 2024 - 10:12 AM.

[Terra Nova]

It is kind of both, but more hypothetical. I just see scopes at times that I would want, but knowing I would not use them, have let them pass by. But as I keep seeing them, there is something in me that says I need that, probably just to look at. But at my age, practicality takes over. I was just wondering if others have this problem, and what would they do. But I guess if the right smaller scope came by, and it was something I wanted real bad, and it was a great price, I probably would jump on it. I have sold a few scopes that I never used, just to later wish I had them back, just to look at some more.But I would not do that now.

You know Billy, I completely understand. I think part of it is habit and habits become addictions. I know that it did for me. A ‘new’ telescope (usually a classic) was a fix. I’d get it, the euphoria would be there at first, gradually wear off, and then I’d be on to the next one. I was doing it for the kicks. CN and this forum was the pusher. I think that subconsciously, the motivation was that each ‘new’ telescope would somehow capture that first feeling of looking through that first telescope when I was young, but it seldom ever did that and when it did, that feeling soon wore off and the telescopes piled up. In other words, I was perpetually chasing the dragon. That’s exactly what addictions are, and it took a while but I eventually kicked it. A big part of kicking it was coming to the realization, that there was no way to live in the past. I couldn’t recapture it. Now I live in the present and I like it. In fact, anymore, when I have purchased a ‘new’ telescope, it is a real new telescope. I’ve bought them to replace classics, and I found that they work better, both optically and mechanically, and most importantly, they get me out under the stars and I actually use them! Old habits are hard to break and when they become addictions, it’s even harder. We used to joke in this forum about the need for a Telescopes Anonymous group. I think maybe, it shouldn’t be a joke but a reality. A lot of folks might actually fess up to it being an addiction and get some help.

 

By the way, I do still have that first telescope, and I still use it. It was in fact the most recent telescope I looked through. It never captures the magic of that first time. It won’t and it never will. So now I just look for the magic of each new moment out under the stars regardless of what telescope I use. The magic is still there. It’s just different.

Edited by Terra Nova, 23 November 2024 - 10:26 AM.

[deSitter]

You know Billy, I completely understand. I think part of it is habit and habits become addictions. I know that it did for me. A ‘new’ telescope (usually a classic) was a fix. I’d get it, the euphoria would be there at first, gradually wear off, and then I’d be on to the next one. I was doing it for the kicks. CN and this forum was the pusher. I think that subconsciously, the motivation was that each ‘new’ telescope would somehow capture that first feeling of looking through that first telescope when I was young, but it seldom ever did that and when it did, that feeling soon wore off and the telescopes piled up. In other words, I was perpetually chasing the dragon. That’s exactly what addictions are, and it took a while but I eventually kicked it. A big part of kicking it was coming to the realization, that there was no way to live in the past. I couldn’t recapture it. Now I live in the present and I like it. In fact, anymore, when I have purchased a ‘new’ telescope, it is a real new telescope. I’ve bought them to replace classics, and I found that they work better, both optically and mechanically, and most importantly, they get me out under the stars and I actually use them! Old habits are hard to break and when they become addictions, it’s even harder. We used to joke in this forum about the need for a Telescopes Anonymous group. I think maybe, it shouldn’t be a joke but a reality. A lot of folks might actually fess up to it being an addiction and get some help.

 

By the way, I do still have that first telescope, and I still use it. It was in fact the most recent telescope I looked through. It never captures the magic of that first time. It won’t and it never will. So now I just look for the magic of each new moment out under the stars regardless of what telescope I use. The magic is still there. It’s just different.

How interesting. I enjoy tremendously seeing the old gems saved and restored, but I never had the gotta-get-it itch. I bought my classics because 1) they were ridiculously cheap 2) they are optically usually better than comparable modern items 3) they allow me to work on precision things using my hands, which I find extremely relaxing 4) I really do feel like I am saving a fine instrument from oblivion in a landfill.

 

There's another 3" refractor on my horizon and if that one comes, another will go, probably to friends. As with wine, beer etc. I'm a lightweight, so no danger of addiction here

 

I do apparently have a weakness for the ETX! That's my "kleptonite". I can see a 125 in my future. I was so happy to find a 105 I'm still buzzing.

 

-drl

[jragsdale]

We used to joke in this forum about the need for a Telescopes Anonymous group. I think maybe, it shouldn’t be a joke but a reality. A lot of folks might actually fess up to it being an addiction and get some help.

I will fully admit without any shame that it's clearly an addiction. But as long as it's not negatively affecting your life in any way; mental clarity, time, finances, space, personal time, etc., then I don't see the harm in pursuing it just like many other people "collect" things. No one ever considered someone who collected spoons or Humels to have a psychological disorder. I think it's just a type of Human behavior that manifests in some people. The extreme and dangerous end of the spectrum would be legit hoarders. I don't believe every telescope needs to be used X number of times to justify ownership. If a vintage/classic telescope enters your life, you enjoy having it, and it leaves your life in as good or better condition, then honestly I don't care how many times someone uses it. I LOVE the people who never use their stuff, then it's in much better condition when they eventually sell it. I don't like it when telescopes are amassed and then neglected or abused and slowly atrophy into junk that needs tossed. That's when an addiction gets sad and dangerous.

 

Terra, I can totally see your circumstance that it has made the most sense for you. I know for me, I separate my scopes into different categories and I don't mind having functional show pieces that never see light (i.e. my 5" Mogey that has a fairly poor lens). And I rarely break out my many 60mm scopes because I have so many larger scopes that function better, but I love having them and setting them up every so often just to admire them. But I also have plenty of room, and the financial burden of so much equity in astronomy gear isn't consequential to our household finances.

[Weisswurst Josef]

I deny any help.

 

But help should be for those who cannot hoard.