59 replies to this topic

[GeoffC47]

I have a Pegasus Ultimate Powerbox v3 with a USB3 port that has broken. The blue centerpost has broken off the port (I still have it), exposing 4 wires that are normally housed in that centerpost. See photo below. The USB# port is the one that wires the PUPBv3 to my onboard computer; it is essential to my rig as built.

 

Pegasus' 2 year warranty does not cover this. Local repair shops would need to send it off for repair, as would Pegasus. Likely cost including shipping = ~$80. The part only costs ~$1.

 

This happened to me once before with my ASI2600 camera. I had to get a whole new circuit board for the camera just to replace the USB3 port! I thought this time I'd like to try and repair it by desoldering the broken part and soldering a new port in its place. A good skill to have.

 

I've never soldered circuit boards, but have soldered a number of household electrical repairs, and have the equipment - and in pondering this possibility I have watched a few videos, found a few scrap circuit boards and have practiced desoldering and soldering with growing success, using both a hot air gun (for desoldering) and a soldering iron station to solder. My impression is this should is a skill within my reach. I could, of course, be wrong. ;-) 

 

There are three steps to this process that are emphasized on the videos: 

     1) Desolder the current port

     2) Clean the holes (all 11 of them!) of any residual solder

     3) Solder in the new port

 

I intend to use a soldering heat gun for #1, and the soldering iron with soldering wick for #2 and the soldering iron for #3, all with lots of flux

 

The port is helpfully located near the corner of the board (see photos- the black cable is attached to the USB3 port) and the majority of the board can easily be isolated and protected from the heat gun air with foil. The hot air would be traveling outwards towards the corner of the board.

 

Questions for anyone who has worked on a Pegasus (or similar) board: 

• I notice the board itself has a black coating on both sides. Is that a conformal coating of some sort? Would it complicate desoldering or soldering?
• Would you have any concerns about my proposed desoldering process (with the heat gun)?  I have to have some way to heat up all 11 soldered connections at the same time to remove the current port (unless I was to manually clip off all the port connections and then remove the soldered stubs one at a time).  

 

I'd be grateful for recommendations from any of you who have tried this with your astro equipment.

 

Thanks!! 

 

Geoff

 

 

 

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[ian408]

I'd probably use an iron and solder wick on all of it. But it's been awhile since I've worked on a board. I'm guessing the board was wave soldered meaning it'd be fine to use either wick or a solder sucker. 

[zveck]

Do not attempt to do this yourself. You are not qualified and most likely tear out circuit board pads, and/or ruin plate thru connections. Leave this to a qualified pro. I was IPC certified including surface mount until I retired due to a medical condition. I've seen far too many "attempts" including usb jacks such as this in the last 50 years.

[zveck]

Also that board may be conformal coated. The new coatings are all but invisible until you try to solder on them and then you find out the job becomes substantially harder. Nothing dissolves that nasty crap that won't destroy everything around it. It must be carefully scraped off where you need solder to flow.

Edited by zveck, 30 November 2024 - 01:25 AM.

[zveck]

I'd probably use an iron and solder wick on all of it. But it's been awhile since I've worked on a board. I'm guessing the board was wave soldered meaning it'd be fine to use either wick or a solder sucker. 

And the proper temperature and tips. Two different tips and temperatures to do this. Probably need a Pace or Hakko desoldering gun and two tips there.

Edited by zveck, 30 November 2024 - 01:36 AM.

[archiebald]

The job really shouldn't be that difficult with a small amount of experience and the right tools.  I've done a number of repairs on PCB's, and built a few custom boards for my own Arduino projects, and nixie clocks - It isn't that hard.  Here are my tips.

 

1. Make sure you have a decent clamp to hold the board solidly while you are working on it.  A little PCB vice is the best option such as a "Panavise". Something like these....   https://www.amazon.c...05-F73BD2E2BFCD
2. Don't use a solder gun - they are nasty, overpowered brutal things, not precise enough, no control and generally give far too much heating.  A regular soldering iron or any of the modern (really low priced) digitally controlled soldering irons are a much easier to control.  Solder guns are NOT for electronics.  You don't need a machete, you need a scalpel....    Something like this..... https://www.somerset...-soldering-iron
3. Personally I find that a desolder pump (solder sucker) is much easier to use than solder wick - that's just personal choice.  Like these.... https://www.amazon.c...k=desolder pump
4. With the solder sucker, you can work on one or two connections at a time - just needs a little patience.
5. Alternatively, a proper hot air station (can be very cheap too) with a small nozzle will help to control where you are putting in the heat.  I've done a couple of replacements of tiny chips this way.  Daunting at first, but relatively easy with the combined use of the solder sucker.  Something like this.... https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B07T9KLHY5
6. The best tool of all for this specific job is a de-soldering gun (only for the removal part), but they are specialized and may be too expensive for a one off job.  But, a great tool if you see yourself doing a lot of repairs though. - something like this...  https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B07B47H44W
7. The two big joints from the USB port to the board  may be ground connections, but their basic purpose is to mechanically lock the port in place.  These will be the most challenging as you not only have to desolder them, but they will have tabs that are bent over to hold the USB port in place.

The links I've posted are only examples for explanation, I'm not recommending anything specific here.

Edited by archiebald, 30 November 2024 - 02:15 AM.

[archiebald]

Also that board may be conformal coated. The new coatings are all but invisible until you try to solder on them and then you find out the job becomes substantially harder. Nothing dissolves that nasty crap that won't destroy everything around it. It must be carefully scraped off where you need solder to flow.

There's no need to scrape any of it off.  It is only printed where solder should NOT be.

[zveck]

There's no need to scrape any of it off.  It is only printed where solder should NOT be.

Most conformal coatings are put on to keep moisture off electronic surfaces, including components, plate thru's, and solder pads. You might have conformal coating mixed up with etch resist.

[zveck]

https://en.wikipedia...nformal_coating

 

parylene is the evil invisible crap

 

https://electronics....oating-for-pcbs

[zveck]

The job really shouldn't be that difficult with a small amount of experience and the right tools.  I've done a number of repairs on PCB's, and built a few custom boards for my own Arduino projects, and nixie clocks - It isn't that hard.  Here are my tips.

 

1. Make sure you have a decent clamp to hold the board solidly while you are working on it.  A little PCB vice is the best option such as a "Panavise". Something like these....   https://www.amazon.c...05-F73BD2E2BFCD
2. Don't use a solder gun - they are nasty, overpowered brutal things, not precise enough, no control and generally give far too much heating.  A regular soldering iron or any of the modern (really low priced) digitally controlled soldering irons are a much easier to control.  Solder guns are NOT for electronics.  You don't need a machete, you need a scalpel....    Something like this..... https://www.somerset...-soldering-iron
3. Personally I find that a desolder pump (solder sucker) is much easier to use than solder wick - that's just personal choice.  Like these.... https://www.amazon.c...k=desolder pump
4. With the solder sucker, you can work on one or two connections at a time - just needs a little patience.
5. Alternatively, a proper hot air station (can be very cheap too) with a small nozzle will help to control where you are putting in the heat.  I've done a couple of replacements of tiny chips this way.  Daunting at first, but relatively easy with the combined use of the solder sucker.  Something like this.... https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B07T9KLHY5
6. The best tool of all for this specific job is a de-soldering gun (only for the removal part), but they are specialized and may be too expensive for a one off job.  But, a great tool if you see yourself doing a lot of repairs though. - something like this...  https://www.amazon.c...g/dp/B07B47H44W
7. The two big joints from the USB port to the board  may be ground connections, but their basic purpose is to mechanically lock the port in place.  These will be the most challenging as you not only have to desolder them, but they will have tabs that are bent over to hold the USB port in place.

The links I've posted are only examples for explanation, I'm not recommending anything specific here.

The job really shouldn't be that difficult- Yet it is if you have to ask how. You may be able to  pull it off, but most astrophotography people are not electronic technicians or hobbyists.

[GeoffC47]

I appreciate the responses, both the well placed cautions and the tips (with the links)! The solder sucker looks like it would be helpful. Thank you!!

 

I've got a Weller 70 watt iron and a heat gun - and there are tons of videos available. I'll be watching and practicing some more before deciding whether to have a go at it!

 

We are in the middle of cloudy weeks in W Pa, so lots of time... 

[psienide]

I'd second the cautions - but also add that it should still work fine without doing the jack repair (ask me how I know). But there are other problems with keeping it in that state that would just make the situation worse (please don't ask me how I know).

 

The repair is likely going to be more of a headache than you thought. I've repaired and assembled tens of eurorack synthesizer modules in this same manner and it's always more tricky than it looks, especially with jacks.

As mentioned - a soldering heat gun may be more dangerous and imprecise than just using an iron and wick. But doing this with an iron and wick has proven still extremely frustrating to me and that's on 4 contact jacks. 11 is going to be a beast.

Also, don't just expect any cheap old soldering iron to work well. I've been through some irons, and let me tell you, a good iron and the right solder makes all the difference.

[PIEJr]

Go for it if you will. (and it sounds like you will.)

I would, but I have 42 years of experience on you, too.

And I'll leave it at that.

 

My curiosity is why have you broken two USB3 B ports now? On two different devices?

 

Maybe you need to rethink your Bull in a China Closet approach?

 

In 10+ years I have not broken one. Of any of my USB connections.

Sorry to be harsh, but somebody has to tell you.

[GeoffC47]

 

My curiosity is why have you broken two USB3 B ports now? On two different devices?

Ha! That is a question, isn’t it!?! I’ve been thinking about it, too. No offense taken in seeing you ask it. 

The first port broke when my Telegizmo scope cover rubbed too hard on my USB camera port that still had the cable in it as I covered it.  After the repair I no longer leave any cables plugged in to a camera, focuser, filter wheel, etc when covering. The second break happened while the power box was mounted under my scope and on top of my Losmandy plate. it was very well protected. My suspicion is that I was using a USB2 cord in the USB3 port (it was shorter and worked fine) - and the smaller male head didn’t take advantage of the full female port’s support and put strain on the center post.  At least that’s my guess. 

 

I'd second the cautions…

 

The repair is likely going to be more of a headache than you thought. I've repaired and assembled tens of eurorack synthesizer modules in this same manner and it's always more tricky than it looks, especially with jacks.

I was practicing cleaning out solder from holes tonight with flux and solder wick… very slow going. And then i looked at the Pegasus board carefully… those 11 holes are very small. 
 

I was showing all this to my 16 year old grandson over Thanksgiving, talking about the options, and he suggested trying to epoxy the center post back in, as the port still does work. “If that doesn’t work, Grampa, then you could go ahead and try to replace it - or send it off for repair. But maybe you can superglue it back as it is” - seemed like a pretty creative possibility!

 

I epoxied the post in tonight. Will see how it works tomorrow. 

[psienide]

...

 

I was practicing cleaning out solder from holes tonight with flux and solder wick… very slow going. And then i looked at the Pegasus board carefully… those 11 holes are very small. 

 

...
 

The main difficulty I had with jacks is the fact that all of the posts need to be removed to even get it to budge - BUT sometimes that solder has flowed all the way to the other side. So you might think you have removed it from the work end of the board, but there's more solder on the other side under the jack that can be a pain to get to or wick out. And then to get that to flow enough to remove from the other side, you may actually end up burning or damaging the pads. I'm no soldering expert and maybe there's other strategies to solve for that, but that was my main gripe.
 

[ian408]

Ha! That is a question, isn’t it!?! I’ve been thinking about it, too. No offense taken in seeing you ask it. 
 

I was showing all this to my 16 year old grandson over Thanksgiving, talking about the options, and he suggested trying to epoxy the center post back in, as the port still does work. “If that doesn’t work, Grampa, then you could go ahead and try to replace it - or send it off for repair. But maybe you can superglue it back as it is” - seemed like a pretty creative possibility!

 

I epoxied the post in tonight. Will see how it works tomorrow. 

Those parts are pretty crappy. Apparently, more than a few ASI Airs have gone back from repair. But I'll say, it's a lot easier to find an equiv Raspberry Pi and just replace the whole thing. Then all you have to do is ask for a new code and you're good to go! 

[PIEJr]

Ha! That is a question, isn’t it!?! I’ve been thinking about it, too. No offense taken in seeing you ask it. 

The first port broke when my Telegizmo scope cover rubbed too hard on my USB camera port that still had the cable in it as I covered it.  After the repair I no longer leave any cables plugged in to a camera, focuser, filter wheel, etc when covering. The second break happened while the power box was mounted under my scope and on top of my Losmandy plate. it was very well protected. My suspicion is that I was using a USB2 cord in the USB3 port (it was shorter and worked fine) - and the smaller male head didn’t take advantage of the full female port’s support and put strain on the center post.  At least that’s my guess. 

 

I was practicing cleaning out solder from holes tonight with flux and solder wick… very slow going. And then i looked at the Pegasus board carefully… those 11 holes are very small. 
 

I was showing all this to my 16 year old grandson over Thanksgiving, talking about the options, and he suggested trying to epoxy the center post back in, as the port still does work. “If that doesn’t work, Grampa, then you could go ahead and try to replace it - or send it off for repair. But maybe you can superglue it back as it is” - seemed like a pretty creative possibility!

 

I epoxied the post in tonight. Will see how it works tomorrow. 

Sounds plausible. And unplugging a lot certainly could avoid such unpleasant happenings. But I'd use Dielectric grease on the plugs and ports to alleviate friction and wear, plus the dielectric grease is great for the moisture problems these connectors can give. Here's more.

 

I believe I would invite the Grandson back over and try the superglue option. My 13 YO grandson thinks I can fix anything. Superglue is the right thing for much of our modern items. Both of you might pull it off (extra hands, extra eyes, and steady young hands.). Just be very careful and use little. A little can go a long way. A little too much can go a lot longer way, like places it should definitely not.

 

Desoldering and resoldering is a bit of an artisan task. Especially with PC boards. Too much heat and the PC will immediately delaminate from the board, then you'd have an even bigger mess. One you may or may not be able to get out of. I've used a Solder Sucker and desoldering braid. I prefer the Solder sucker because it sucks up the solder and removes the heat. I'd suggest you consider a 25-watt soldering iron to apply less heat to the fragile connection.

Of the two options, trying to super glue the plastic back, or trying to learn to desolder and resolder the entire connector, Super gluing would definitely be the safer option. Worst case scenario, you have to buy a whole new board.

 

In the long run, that $80 factory repair looks like a very good option. Let them worry about it and get a repaired item back. And likely with at least a little warranty on the repair. 30? 45? 90? days. Might find a clear night in there somewhere.

And probably be worth not having the aggravation of attempting repairs only to fail and have to take the expen$ive route anyway.

 

One thing is for sure, the more the item gets bungled, the more it will take to fix it.

 

Some dude at a small computer repair shop might be able to fix it for you for less. And probably be more experienced.

Things to consider.

 

And please, be more careful. These astro toys are rather fragile.

 

Live long and prosper.

 

Clear skies!

Edited by PIEJr, 01 December 2024 - 12:06 AM.

[rj144]

You need a heat gun and flux to solder it back to the board.  A soldering iron is too large.

[Cliff Hipsher]

Speaking as a former certified US Naval Sea Systems Command Miniature/Microminiature Repair (NavSea 2M) Inspector/Instructor you have neither the skillset nor the equipment to be successful at repairing that circuit board and the proof of that is that you posted your question instead of trying to repair it yourself which was a very wise career move. 

 

You have two options:  1. Buy a new unit.  2.  Send it to the manufacturer/vendor and have it repaired.

[TDPerry]

You have two options:  1. Buy a new unit.  2.  Send it to the manufacturer/vendor and have it repaired.

No, really you have 3.  The two that you mentioned, and the third is to try to repair it yourself.  If that fails, then you are restricted to #1.

I am currently about to go through that process with a ZWO EFW controller unit.  The plastic post broke from it also just like the OP described.  Nothing that I did to it as it had only been used maybe 15 times and the cables never got into a bind and the EFW never impacted any item.  It most likely was a simple failure in a cheap component.  But ZWO would not warranty it so I ended up buying a new controller board (around $100), but when time allows I am going to attempt to solder a new USB port into place.  If it trashes it... no big deal as the current rig is working since it has a replacement board.  But if I am successful, then when the new board USB center post breaks again I  have a replacement on hand I can  use while the replacement one comes in again.

Edited by TDPerry, 01 December 2024 - 10:45 AM.

[psienide]

Speaking as a former certified US Naval Sea Systems Command Miniature/Microminiature Repair (NavSea 2M) Inspector/Instructor you have neither the skillset nor the equipment to be successful at repairing that circuit board and the proof of that is that you posted your question instead of trying to repair it yourself which was a very wise career move. 

 

You have two options:  1. Buy a new unit.  2.  Send it to the manufacturer/vendor and have it repaired.

If I can go from absolutely no experience to building voltage controlled oscillators like below and diode ladder filters with just basic equipment, i'm pretty sure the OP can handle a USB jack. It'll be frustrating for sure and may end up failing so a backup is recommended, but it'll be a good learning experience. And if it works, a proud endeavor. I wouldn't dissuade someone from such things.

 

 

[TDPerry]

The biggest failure.. is the failure to try.

[zveck]

Speaking as a former certified US Naval Sea Systems Command Miniature/Microminiature Repair (NavSea 2M) Inspector/Instructor you have neither the skillset nor the equipment to be successful at repairing that circuit board and the proof of that is that you posted your question instead of trying to repair it yourself which was a very wise career move. 

 

You have two options:  1. Buy a new unit.  2.  Send it to the manufacturer/vendor and have it repaired.

Another real expert chimes in! Two people certified to do it say don't, while the people who once stayed in a Holliday Inn say go for it. It's your money.

[psienide]

Another real expert chimes in! Two people certified to do it say don't, while the people who once stayed in a Holliday Inn say go for it. It's your money.

Hey buddy, I only stay in Hiltons. Waldorf and Conrad preferred if available.

[rj144]

Another real expert chimes in! Two people certified to do it say don't, while the people who once stayed in a Holliday Inn say go for it. It's your money.

As mentioned though, it's already broken so you can't break it more.  Why not try the repair anyhow?