147 replies to this topic

[Overtime]

This is what I saw. Someone posted a link to a photo identify website. I saved it in my bookmarks but can't find it. I took this picture with my phone.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

Edited by Overtime, 13 December 2024 - 07:01 PM.

[N-1]

A note on the unilluminated portion of Venus appearing to be darker than the sky around it:  This would have to be an illusion of some kind.  It's impossible for anything beyond Earth's atmosphere to actually be seen as being darker than the sky around it.  The light from Earth's daytime illuminated sky would be glowing in front of any object that's more distant.

 

One might think that a total solar eclipse is an exception, but it's not.  During a total solar eclipse, the new moon can appear to be darker than the Sun's corona around it because the corona does not exist in front of the moon.  It's behind the moon.  When on Earth looking at Venus, Earth's illuminated daytime sky is not behind Venus.  It's in front of Venus.

Unless there is something other than empty space behind it of course. During the almost-Transit of Venus in 2020, Mauna Loa managed what might be the most spectacular observations of that planet made from Earth. So in theory at least, an observation like that in post #23 seems possible, since Venus is definitely observable at the elongations needed for it to transit the solar Corona, however I agree that's very unlikely to be what Mike saw, given the phase and elongations on the date of his observation. The brain is pretty good at completing the circle or adding a disk where there isn't one (and cameras are better), so the sketches above are still a good representation of what an observer might experience.

Edited by N-1, 13 December 2024 - 11:53 PM.

[Sketcher]

Unless there is something other than empty space behind it of course. During the almost-Transit of Venus in 2020, Mauna Loa managed what might be the most spectacular observations of that planet made from Earth. So in theory at least, an observation like that in post #23 seems possible, since Venus is definitely observable at the elongations needed for it to transit the solar Corona, however I agree that's very unlikely to be what Mike saw, given the phase and elongations on the date of his observation. The brain is pretty good at completing the circle or adding a disk where there isn't one (and cameras are better), so the sketches above are still a good representation of what an observer might experience.

Agreed.  Those sketches are beautiful and I'm sure they are honest representations of what was seen by the eye-brain system.  An astronomical sketcher's "job" is to depict things as they see them, and that was done in the creation of those sketches.  We "see" not just with our eyes.  Our brains are deeply involved in the process as well, and that can result in different individuals seeing the same things differently.  It's rather fascinating to think about how we see the world around us.  The world would be a bit less exciting if our vision was less affected by the brain's interpretations and more like the less subjective world of photography.  It's all rather fascinating to think about.

 

It brings to mind the tear-drop effect (as well as the canals of Mars) that some have seen when observing transits of Mercury and Venus.  That tear-drop effect was on my mind when I decided to use my 6-inch f/6.5 achromat for my observations of the last Mercury transit.  I had used my 5.1-inch apochromat for the preceding Mercury transit (as well as for a Venus transit).  Would a different telescope (of different quality) make a difference?  That was one of the questions that I had hoped to answer.  For the record, I failed to notice the tear-drop effect with any of those transit observations.  Yet, there's got to be an explanation behind the fact that some have seen it while others haven't.  Perhaps some brains "fill in" details differently than other brains . . .

Edited by Sketcher, 14 December 2024 - 12:58 AM.

[Napp]

I was working an outreach at a night market in St. Augustine Tuesday night.  Early in the evening I had my 10 inch DOB pointed at Venus while a friend had a 10 inch DOB pointed at the moon.  Several hundred folks of all ages looked through our scopes that night.  Since so many people were in line, I was using about 100X as a compromise of how big Venus appeared vs how long it stayed in the field of view before I had to nudge the scope.  I easily saw the phase of Venus early in twilight because the background sky was bright.  It became more difficult as the night became darker.  I could still see the phase later while many of the folks I shared the view with did not see it.  Observing Venus is somewhat like observing a full moon.  If you don't have a filter to use the object at first appears as a bright object wth little or no features showing.  It can be uncomfortable.  However, if you keep your eye to the eyepiece it adapts to the brightness showing more of the object.  In the case of Venus you see the phase if you have focused properly. 

[Overtime]

If it is clear tonight I may try yo do some viewing with my 8 inch scope. Hopefully it isn't to cold.

[Ihtegla Sar]

I saw Venus for about 15 minutes this evening when there was a brief opening in the clouds. Seeing was not great and there was a lot of atmospheric dispersion but the phase was easily visible at 245x as it moves closer to third quarter.

[quilty]

Well, venus is easy to spot.
but if you want to snapshot her naked, it's a hard one, she's most reluctant

Edited by quilty, 16 December 2024 - 08:21 AM.

[mikeDnight]

A note on the unilluminated portion of Venus appearing to be darker than the sky around it:  This would have to be an illusion of some kind.  It's impossible for anything beyond Earth's atmosphere to actually be seen as being darker than the sky around it.  The light from Earth's daytime illuminated sky would be glowing in front of any object that's more distant.

 

One might think that a total solar eclipse is an exception, but it's not.  During a total solar eclipse, the new moon can appear to be darker than the Sun's corona around it because the corona does not exist in front of the moon.  It's behind the moon.  When on Earth looking at Venus, Earth's illuminated daytime sky is not behind Venus.  It's in front of Venus.

 I'd imagine it to be an illusion, but possibly because the atmosphere around the limb was being lit from behind emphasising the unilluminated globe, it gave the impression of a darker globe in the already darkening sky. Something similarly can be hinted at in RMay's image of the thinnest crescent in post #20 if you zoom into it, although the image is against a brighter sky. 

[mikeDnight]

Agreed.  Those sketches are beautiful and I'm sure they are honest representations of what was seen by the eye-brain system.  An astronomical sketcher's "job" is to depict things as they see them, and that was done in the creation of those sketches.  We "see" not just with our eyes.  Our brains are deeply involved in the process as well, and that can result in different individuals seeing the same things differently.  It's rather fascinating to think about how we see the world around us.  The world would be a bit less exciting if our vision was less affected by the brain's interpretations and more like the less subjective world of photography.  It's all rather fascinating to think about.

 

It brings to mind the tear-drop effect (as well as the canals of Mars) that some have seen when observing transits of Mercury and Venus.  That tear-drop effect was on my mind when I decided to use my 6-inch f/6.5 achromat for my observations of the last Mercury transit.  I had used my 5.1-inch apochromat for the preceding Mercury transit (as well as for a Venus transit).  Would a different telescope (of different quality) make a difference?  That was one of the questions that I had hoped to answer.  For the record, I failed to notice the tear-drop effect with any of those transit observations.  Yet, there's got to be an explanation behind the fact that some have seen it while others haven't.  Perhaps some brains "fill in" details differently than other brains . . .

   When observing the transit of Venus back in 2004, I looked for the black drop effect but can't say I saw it. I did see what I felt may have been a contrast effect due to limb darkening as the disk of Venus almost kissed the solar limb in sketch b.

 

Dad & Lad, transit of Venus June 8  2004 ( A great excuse for a day off school).

Edited by mikeDnight, 18 December 2024 - 11:54 AM.

[treadmarks]

Venus has always been one of my major "white whales" in this hobby. As the closest and most similar to planet to Earth, and a pretty big one, I've always had an interest in it. But I think, like Uranus, there's genuinely not much to see. The clouds are mostly uniform throughout the planet.

 

Despite that, I took another crack at Venus last night. I am confident that if I manage the brightness, what I'm seeing in the telescope is pretty close to what it actually looks like. I observed in twilight and with my porch light on to keep my eyes undilated, and had some ND and color filters at the ready too.

 

I found that, phase aside, the central region seemed a darker shade than closer to the limb. It was nothing spectacular, but it does line up with what a lot of high-res photos show. I am wondering, to those who have observed Venus recently, is that what it looked like to you, too?

[mikeDnight]

Venus has always been one of my major "white whales" in this hobby. As the closest and most similar to planet to Earth, and a pretty big one, I've always had an interest in it. But I think, like Uranus, there's genuinely not much to see. The clouds are mostly uniform throughout the planet.

 

Despite that, I took another crack at Venus last night. I am confident that if I manage the brightness, what I'm seeing in the telescope is pretty close to what it actually looks like. I observed in twilight and with my porch light on to keep my eyes undilated, and had some ND and color filters at the ready too.

 

I found that, phase aside, the central region seemed a darker shade than closer to the limb. It was nothing spectacular, but it does line up with what a lot of high-res photos show. I am wondering, to those who have observed Venus recently, is that what it looked like to you, too?

 Yes!

 

 It's so easy to assume you're imagining detail because its so subtle, but you are seeing it. I find that the cups and the terminator are good places to look for a lead into seeing detail. The cusps or polar regions are rarely identical. One often displays a larger brilliant area than the other. And the terminator is never as sharply defined as the limb, but displays a soft shaded impression. At times the shaded terminator will have one or two brighter spots that may appear to protrude into the dark side. Once such detail is found it can lead to more subtle detail such as the famous Y shading seen by many visual observers and imagers alike becoming evident. If you can master Venus visually you'll have a killer time with Mars!

Edited by mikeDnight, 18 December 2024 - 03:08 PM.

[Special Ed]

To the OP--

 

You said you were looking at Venus before sunset.  That is much better than waiting until dark--if you couldn't see the phase, it was probably poor seeing.  From that photo you posted, you would be looking over rooftops--that would degrade the seeing.  Low altitude would also degrade the seeing.  When you are observing planets, seeing is paramount.  Your 8 inch scope should give you a good view of Venus if conditions are right.

 

I made a series of observations of Venus with my plastic Galileoscope imitating the pioneering observations that Galileo made in the 17th century.  I made my observations as early in the evening as I could--the scope doesn't have a finder, just a vee notch gunsight--so I had to wait for Venus to become obvious, but it was still light out.  The Galileoscope only has 25x, but I could see all the phases.

 

[Special Ed]

Mike,

 

Your sketches of the egress of the 2004 transit are terrific!  In sketch e., you captured part of the aureole--seeing that is what convinced the early astronomers that Venus had an atmosphere.

 

When I observed the transit, I was astonished (and gratified) to see the complete aureole surrounding the disk of Venus.  As you and others have mentioned, there are all kinds of contrast effects and illusions that happen with visual observations.  You can see an odd contrast effect on the disk in my sketch as Venus was halfway past the solar limb, but I recorded what I was seeing as faithfully as possible.

 

[N-1]

To the OP--

 

You said you were looking at Venus before sunset.  That is much better than waiting until dark--if you couldn't see the phase, it was probably poor seeing.  From that photo you posted, you would be looking over rooftops--that would degrade the seeing.  Low altitude would also degrade the seeing.  When you are observing planets, seeing is paramount.  Your 8 inch scope should give you a good view of Venus if conditions are right.

 

I made a series of observations of Venus with my plastic Galileoscope imitating the pioneering observations that Galileo made in the 17th century.  I made my observations as early in the evening as I could--the scope doesn't have a finder, just a vee notch gunsight--so I had to wait for Venus to become obvious, but it was still light out.  The Galileoscope only has 25x, but I could see all the phases.

 

Venus Phases May_August_2023_v1.jpg

I like this series and I too use the Galileoscope to look at Venus, incl through conjunctions which is particularly neat, although seeing a 95-100% illuminated disk of Venus through that particular scope is no mean feat, well done! Minor quibble though - the date range of the sketches seems to be off a bit. August 2023 on the far left matches what I remember seeing but the rest does not. It also takes considerably longer than 4 months to go through those phases, and there was no superior conjunction in 2023

Edited by N-1, 20 December 2024 - 12:52 AM.

[Overtime]

Well, venus is easy to spot.
but if you want to snapshot her naked, it's a hard one, she's most reluctant

I hear she's smokin hot! lol

[Special Ed]

N-1,

 

Thanks for the feedback.  You are correct about the dates--my bad.  I looked in my logbook and my first observation was March 30th--not in May.  My last observation, 5 days before inferior conjunction, was August 8th.  I will have to edit that sketch.

 

I got a late start on this project because of bad weather in February and March here.  I never saw a full disk (if even possible).  I just knew that Galileo started his drawing with a circle, so I did, too.  My aim was to reproduce his observations as best I could to get some understanding of how difficult it must have been.  I came away with an even greater respect for his abilities.

 

For instance, it was hard to see the phase with the Galileoscope.  It became easier as Venus moved into the crescent phase.  I also could never really detect the increase in apparent diameter--I just knew that it was growing in size.  And Galileo made his discoveries with a telescope inferior to the one I was using.  

 

Since you have a Galileoscope, you might be interested in looking at the other sketches I did where I tried to reproduce his published observations.  It was a very educational project.  

 

https://www.cloudyni...scope-sketches/

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Venus has always been one of my major "white whales" in this hobby. As the closest and most similar to planet to Earth, and a pretty big one, I've always had an interest in it. But I think, like Uranus, there's genuinely not much to see. The clouds are mostly uniform throughout the planet.

Despite that, I took another crack at Venus last night. I am confident that if I manage the brightness, what I'm seeing in the telescope is pretty close to what it actually looks like. I observed in twilight and with my porch light on to keep my eyes undilated, and had some ND and color filters at the ready too.

I found that, phase aside, the central region seemed a darker shade than closer to the limb. It was nothing spectacular, but it does line up with what a lot of high-res photos show. I am wondering, to those who have observed Venus recently, is that what it looked like to you, too?

Yes, the central part of the disk had a slightly darker > shaped area.

Edited by Sebastian_Sajaroff, 22 December 2024 - 06:33 AM.

[tcifani]

Sometimes, Venus is difficult to discern much detail except for its "phases". Here is a quick simple pencil sketch I made a few nights ago just after sunset with a 90mm refractor. I've seen some faint details on the planet before, usually along the planet's terminator line, but many nights it's just a very bright small disk or crescent shape in small scopes such as this one. Nevertheless, I still find viewing Venus enjoyable.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Dave Mitsky]

   When observing the transit of Venus back in 2004, I looked for the black drop effect but can't say I saw it. I did see what I felt may have been a contrast effect due to limb darkening as the disk of Venus almost kissed the solar limb in sketch b.

 

2024-03-09 13.42.06.jpg

2024-03-09 13.41.30.jpg

Dad & Lad, transit of Venus June 8  2004 ( A great excuse for a day off school).

2023-05-08 14.57.42.jpg

Here's one of the photos that I took during the 2004 transit of Venus.  Some fellow ASH members and I observed the event from atop a casino in Atlantic City.

The Transit of Venus

6/8/2004
102mm f/8 Takahashi FS-102 apochromatic refractor
an afocal shot through a 9mm Nagler Type 6
Sony DSC-707 digital camera
Atlantic City, NJ

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Dave Mitsky]

This was the first and only good afocal shot that I was able to get during the 2012 transit of Venus.  I used my 101mm f/5.4 Tele Vue refractor, a 35mm Tele Vue Panoptic eyepiece, a Baader Planetarium AstroSolar™ Safety Film white light solar filter, and a Canon PowerShot SD980 IS camera.  Unfortunately, clouds covered Venus shortly thereafter.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[mikemarotta]

... so grabbed my Celestron 4.5 x 900mm scope ... a 40mm, ... a 20mm ...  a 2x barlow ... a 5x barlow ... 

 

Venus is covered in gas and reflects a lot of light. Without a filter, it's pretty much just a bright spot. With a filter, it's pretty much a bright little ball, with some mottled hues of yellow/green. It's hard to see much.

 

Venus can be so bright that discerning its phase can be a challenge. My usual telescope is a 102-mm refractor, but I did a lot of viewing one year with a basic 70-mm achromatic. Even when it is past gibbous and nearing its crescent, I have found that the basic Moon filter (neutral density filter) is more of a necessity than it is merely helpful. The Celestron Lens & Filter kit comes with several colored filters and they, too, have been helpful, sometimes two of them stacked. Then Venus stands out without excessive glare.

 

Thanks,

Mike M.

[tcifani]

A few nights last week I saw something I was sure wasn't a planet when I looked up in front of my house ( unaided, just my eyes ). As usual I was in sort of a rush so grabbed my Celestron 4.5 x 900mm scope since its's easier to move. I first used a 40mm, all I saw was a bright dot. I swapped in a 20mm and it was still a dot. I added a 2x barlow and it was a slightly bigger dot. I added a 5x barlow lens and it was still a dot. Is Venus to small to easily view or was something else hindering my view? I even star tested the collimation and it looked good ( a few days before I had replaced the focuser ). My guess was Venus was so much smaller then Jupiter and Saturn it was harder to see?

Venus will only get more interesting to observe this winter as the two planets get a little closer in their orbits. Even end of January should be better. Eventually, Venus will become a thin crescent so less overall planet to view but still fun to observe.

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Mcloud]

With years of practice I've been able to see through the clouds of Venus and observe a wealth of surface features with my eyes alone. Back to earth now 😄 it's pretty to observe in crescent phase and Astrophysics sells a dedicated Venus filter. I wonder if their are monstrous sized Venus Flytraps on Venus sometimes...

[Nankins]

Venus was one of the first planets I observed, and wow it really is a beautiful planet albeit the shading is super subtle and you have to catch the phases at the right time of the year and day to get any.  I remember pumping up the magnification the first morning I ever observed it and I think my jaw almost hit the floor when something more than just a quarter phased object came into focus.  The planetary disk itself does have a generally light yellowish tint but other than that can appear uninteresting until you started straining your eyes for the clouds.  That first time I mostly just basked in the planetary disk itself and the light yellow color.  Since then I have noticed that if you catch Venus high enough in the sky during twilight, around quarter phase, there is a visible terminator and also at least once I noted the reflection of the Sun's rays appeared more concentrated on the part of the planet directly facing the Sun.  That one time I for sure saw that was also the one time that I did see slight shading in the right patterns and areas, shading that was most visible just in front of the terminator region and faded away near the Sun-facing area and the other side of the planet.  

 

The terminator alone can be fun to explore.  With low magnification you won't see the entire thing, pretty much mostly a black line where it meets the area facing the Sun's rays.  But in a 10" dob with a Barlowed 9 mm eyepiece, it's a whole lot easier to see that the terminator isn't just a solid line but instead a region where the black of night slowly changes to day.  Note from the above sketches that this is also the region in which cloud features are also most often observed - because they aren't overwhelmed by the intensity of the Sun's reflected rays, yet the planet hasn't rotated enough that they blend into the planet's nighttime. 

 

Venus is best observed in twilight or early evening when it is still high enough in the sky to keep the atmosphere from interfering too much.  It can definitely be observed in the daytime too - albeit I've tried this a few times and only once managed to get it in binoculars for a short period of time - I was much more successful with a telescopic observation of Jupiter during the daytime.  What makes daytime Venus observing hard is mostly it's proximity to the Sun - as a few others have said, putting the Sun behind a building or some sort of thick pole is a really really good idea if you want to see Venus during the daytime because it never gets far enough away from the Sun to be in the sweet spot that occurs about 90 degrees from the Sun where planets become much easier to see during the daytime - because 90 degrees from the Sun in our sky is where there is a lot less scatter and glare from sunlight.  

[thedude_01]

I observed Venus a few times recently. It's really high up in the night sky right now and great observing. Last night the planet was a beautiful crescent shaped, and I noticed it was 100% easier to observe and see through the eyepiece than it was when it was full. Maybe it was just better seeing conditions and the planet was higher up too?