35 replies to this topic

[ClintonVA]

Absolute beginner here - first telescope. I bought a used Celestron C8 and have various lenses. Guess I was expecting to see Jupiter larger than just a point of light. Am I doing something wrong. Hoped I could see rhe rings of Saturn at least. Does it matter if o am in town with lots of light pollution? Just need some assurance this is what is normal and not like in the photos I see posted. Will a Barlow pr ,oom lens make things larger? Thank you for any advice.

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Hello,

 

Jupiter is not a point of light, you see its white disc even on 6x30 binoculars.

Saturn rings are visible on my 3" refractor at 50x, they are super obvious (and beautiful) on a C8.

You must be pointing your telescope on the wrong direction.

[Dave Mitsky]

The Celestron C8 has a focal length of 2032mm.  Dividing that number by the focal length of the eyepiece being used will give you the magnification.

 

The planets are very small in apparent (angular) size.  I usually use 200x or greater when observing them, depending upon the telescope being employed and how good the seeing (atmospheric steadiness) is at the time.

 

The Astronomical League's graphic at https://www.astrolea...rTelescopes.pdf shows just how small the bright planets are compared to the Moon.

[ishorx]

city lights are not a problem for planets

[Echolight]

Sounds like you were looking at a star. Not uncommon for people to do this. 

 

Jupiter will be a disc, with three or four "stars" in line with it.

The "stars" are Jupiter's Galilean moons, of which there are four. But one could be behind or in front of the planet at any given hour. So only three might be visible.

 

A C8 has a very narrow field of view and can be somewhat difficult to aim.

Use your lowest power longest focal length, highest numerically, eyepiece to find and center objects before attempting to view them at higher magnification.

 

Maybe, if you have some binoculars, you could take them out to help find and identify your targets that you want to point the telescope at.

Binoculars have a very wide field of view, many many times larger than your telescope, which will make funding stuff much easier. Even stuff you can't see naked eye.

Jupiter will still appear as a small disk with three or four "stars" in line with it in binoculars.

[BlueRidgeSky]

Make sure your finder is aligned with the scope during daylight using the top of a radio tower or something. Not the sun. That should get Jupiter in the field of view at night with your lowest powered eyepiece. Then get your alignment fine tuned. Best of luck

Edited by BlueRidgeSky, 18 December 2024 - 06:51 AM.

[scottinash]

I have often utilized the Astronomy Tools FOV. Calculator which provides a representation of what you will see via particular scope and eyepiece combinations.

 

Example

Edited by scottinash, 18 December 2024 - 09:04 AM.

[ClintonVA]

I want to sincerely thank everyone that has responded.  I had the wrong impression that a telescope would work somewhat like a microscope and make what I could see in the sky "larger".  I have noticed that I do see things (stars maybe) that I can't see otherwise.  

I am using a 2" 40mm eyepiece and have a 2" 23mm eyepiece.  Seems I have a big field of view and it's very clear once focused. 

Why are there always clouds in the sky after you buy your first telescope?

Perhaps the weather service could buy some tents and telescopes for drought stricken areas?? 

Seriously though, thanks to everyone for your guidance and suggestions.  Look forward to clearer sky's and a little warmer weather. 

[Escher]

As stated ealier - your eyepieces just arent magnifying very much.  

 

This is a simulation of what you will see with your 23mm Eyepiece (smaller the number, higher the magnification)

 

This is what you would see with a 10mm eyepiece:

 

But - Higher magnification requires more stable skies or the image becomes very "shimmery" and unstable - unable to see much detail.

 

[WillR]

As stated ealier - your eyepieces just arent magnifying very much.  

 

This is a simulation of what you will see with your 23mm Eyepiece (smaller the number, higher the magnification)

c8-25mm-saturn.png

 

This is what you would see with a 10mm eyepiece:

c8-10mm-saturn.png

 

But - Higher magnification requires more stable skies or the image becomes very "shimmery" and unstable - unable to see much detail.

Maybe for the field of view, but that is not what he will see because those images show Saturn tipped quite a bit when in fact right now the rings are nearly edge on.

 

I observed it last night for the first time in a month or two and the difference was noticeable. The gap is getting harder to see at all. For a novice at low power, he might miss them altogether.

[WillR]

I want to sincerely thank everyone that has responded.  I had the wrong impression that a telescope would work somewhat like a microscope and make what I could see in the sky "larger".  I have noticed that I do see things (stars maybe) that I can't see otherwise.  

I am using a 2" 40mm eyepiece and have a 2" 23mm eyepiece.  Seems I have a big field of view and it's very clear once focused. 

Why are there always clouds in the sky after you buy your first telescope?

Perhaps the weather service could buy some tents and telescopes for drought stricken areas?? 

Seriously though, thanks to everyone for your guidance and suggestions.  Look forward to clearer sky's and a little warmer weather. 

It does make them larger. Point your telescope at the moon after looking at it naked eye and you will see. The only things that don’t get larger are individual stars. They remain points of light because they are so far away.

 

Get yourself a high power eyepiece, maybe 7-10mm to look at the planets. You will have the only opportunity for two years to get a good look at Mars in the next month. (It will still look small, but it will be far smaller in a few months and then disappear for a while)

 

As for clouds, the joke is, buy a telescope and the clouds will come. The truth is it’s cloudy (in the east) a lot more than people realize. What the average person or weather forecaster calls clear, often is not. There are high clouds, scattered clouds, etc. Pristine clear nights of great transparency aren’t that common.

[ClintonVA]

What is a good brand of eyepiece i should be looking for without going overboard price wise? I have Celestron 2" eyepieces now. Thanks

[Escher]

What is a good brand of eyepiece i should be looking for without going overboard price wise? I have Celestron 2" eyepieces now. Thanks

Depends a lot on what you like and how deep your pockets are.

 

What design are your current eyepieces?  Plossl?  Celestron is the brand, but the design will tell you how wide the view will be and how sharp it will be at the edges.

 

Plossl are very common entry level/midrange eyepieces with a pretty narrow field of view (around 50 degrees).

 

Some of the upgrades you may want to  look at are SWA eyepieces from Agena Astro - I have the 38mm 2" - around $100:

https://agenaastro.c...a-eyepiece.html

 

Its a decent EP but the edges of the field are soft (stars become flared a bit).

 

For moderate $$ you can move up to something like Explore Scientific 68 degree series (around $300).   Or the 82 degree series for a couple hundred more.  Televue Panoptic will fit into this range as well - I have a couple of these - very good performers.

 

If you have deeeep pockets, Televue Nagler's are what myself and a lot of people really enjoy - but they are eye-watering expensive new... My 31mm Nagler is around $700 new (I purchased mine used for a bit of a discount).

 

Or there is the extreme end - Televue Ethos at nearly $900 new..

 

For just starting out I would get some Agena SWA or William Optics SWAN 2" eyepieces as they are quite a good value.  If they are out of your price range, then some good Plossl eyepieces will also serve you well.

 

You really have to try out different EP designs and see what you like..

 

Edit to add:  Definitely consider buying some used EP's as you will save a lot of money while figuring out what you like... and you can resell them later if you upgrade.

Edited by Escher, 18 December 2024 - 10:14 AM.

[dnrmilspec]

Astronomics, our sponsor, has a Paradigm 12mm for less than $70.00.  It will give you about 167X and a 60 degree field of view.  This will give you a great view of Saturn and Jupiter and be somewhat forgiving of your seeing conditions.

 

Another option is the AstroTech 9-27 zoom eyepiece that is only $119.00.  That would be a nice choice for you and allow you to adjust for conditions.  At 9mm it would yield about 225X and go all the way down to 75X.  This would be very convenient for you to use.

 

My personal choice would be the zoom just starting out as it will help teach you what you can see and lead you to future upgrades in single focal length EPs if you want to try wider fields of view.

[CollinofAlabama]

Escher's post #9 above is a very good representation of what Saturn looks like at low power and high power, thru your C8, but really thru any telescope.  You should be aware of the "seeing".  I live in West Texas, and we have a lot of clear skies, but we also have a tumultuous atmosphere here on the high plains, without mountains to modify the various shifting weather patterns across the continent, so often have clear skies but bad seeing, the atmosphere such a roiling blend of fast moving wind systems.  This causes high power images to behave the way looking at farther away parked cars across a parking lot can appear on a hot summer day ... shimmering.  In this case, the heat from the parking lot's concrete, asphalt, what-have-you, is rising and makes the parked cars appear to have a contorting pattern, a mirage.  This effect is also evident if you look at rocks in a fast moving creek.  The rocks appear to shimmer and dance, but of course, they're absolutely unmoving on the creek bed, but the water rippling over them makes them appear to move.  These are the effects of heat and air and water on photons.  The atmosphere has this same quality, and it is particularly important when you point a telescope into the sky, the telescope's high power can make a planet rich in features appear like a white blob.  The "fix" for this is to back down on the power.  This reduces magnification, but also reduces the distorting effects of the atmosphere on your image.  Often, when the stars are twinkling a lot, that's a sign of turbulent skies when it may be clear and cloudless, but the seeing is bad.

 

This is one of the pitfalls of astronomy, but it's not hopeless.  On such nights you'll have to use less power.  As others have mentioned, stars won't ever appear in any amateur telescopes as anything other than points of light, being so distant their actual disks cannot be made out, even at high power through a scope much larger than your 8".  That's just the nature of stars.  However, you should be able to split the beautiful double stars Albireo (Beta Cygni)  and Almach (Gamma Andromedae) in the early evening right now in your scope at relatively low power.  These are doubles that have different colored companions from the primary star and look quite beautiful.  They're also relatively wide, regarding the arcsecond separation of the two components, so split at low power (especially Albireo, but Almach doesn't take a whole lot of power to split).

 

I was looking at Jupiter and Mars this past Saturday, a full moon night, and they were both pretty difficult targets because of all the turbulence in the atmosphere, through my friend's 12" dob.  It's an excellent scope, delivering one of the best views of Omega Centauri I've ever seen, but this evening it had a lot of turbulent skies to contend with.  Mars was too low, and just shimmered as a ochre blob.  You will learn that targets closer to the horizon are being seen through the most atmosphere, and are often distorted the most by heat rising from the earth cooling off from the previous day's sunlight, and wind currents.  So Mars was really just a blob.  Jupiter, which was higher in the sky, was also something of a blob.  I borrowed a lower power eyepiece, however, going from a 12.5mm to a 17.5mm one, and the view improved a great deal.  The image would go from momentarily very clear, to washed out and blurry, then back to clear, then blurry, as the cycle repeated itself due to the turbulent atmosphere, but in the moments of steadiness, one could make out a series of cloud bands on Jupiter's façade, the Galilean moons ever present about Jupiter in a line near its equator.

 

Welcome to Cloudynights, ClintonVA.  You have a fine telescope, but will need to make sure you're on the planet you intend, and that your power is right for the seeing.  Start with low power, then slowly increase it for best results.  On very clear, steady nights, a C8 will put up a wealth of detail on Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, and the moon.  Come late January, when Venus moves past half phase toward crescent, you'll be able to see that, too, as she beats us in her faster orbit around the sun.  Good luck and let us know how things go, and if you need more information or help on anything.  Cloudynights is a good resource.

[WillR]

Personally I’d go with a 10mm UWA from our sponsor. The 82 degree FOV will keep the target in the eyepiece a bit longer than the paradigm. It will give you about 103x.

 

https://astronomics....2-1-25-eyepiece

 

If seeing is good, you could even go to the 7mm in the same line, giving you 290x.

 

Applying some magnification to Jupiter will let you observe the Great Red Spot and shadow transits by its four large moons.

Edited by WillR, 19 December 2024 - 07:59 AM.

[vtornado]

What is a good brand of eyepiece i should be looking for without going overboard price wise? I have Celestron 2" eyepieces now. Thanks

That is probably part of the problem these are low power eyepieces.  Is the shortest 26mm?  Still that produces  76x with a C8.  At 76x, Jupiter will be a small disk it should not be a point.  I agree with Echolight in that you were probably looking at a nearby star.

 

For a reasonable guess at magnification buy an eyepiece with a focal length equal to the focal ratio.  For your f/10 SCT that would be 10mm. (200x)

 

The Svbony 7-21 is a fine eyepiece and you can practice with different magnifications before deciding on a fixed focal length eyepiece.

Edited by vtornado, 18 December 2024 - 11:26 AM.

[patioastro]

Not sure which mount you have your C8 mounted on. I don't think you had your scope aimed at Jupiter. Last night I had my 4" f/10 achromat out on an alt-az mount. Seeing was very good, that  means the atmosphere was steady. I could easily see detail on the Jupiter with a 77x eyepiece. For the C8 you get 87x with your 23mm eyepiece.  I increased the magnification to 150x and saw some detail within the belts, the Great Red Spot, and the shadow of Jupiter's moon Io slowly move across the planet. All that with a an old Celestron C102. The nice thing about your scope is that you will see a brighter image with more detail at higher power. Congratulations on your new scope!

[rfcooley]

Absolute beginner here - first telescope. I bought a used Celestron C8 and have various lenses. Guess I was expecting to see Jupiter larger than just a point of light. Am I doing something wrong. Hoped I could see rhe rings of Saturn at least. Does it matter if o am in town with lots of light pollution? Just need some assurance this is what is normal and not like in the photos I see posted. Will a Barlow pr ,oom lens make things larger? Thank you for any advice.

What mount? You should be getting better views. I own C8's and use them for outreach regularly. My Favorite EP's are SV Bony 2" 26mm 70 SWA and SV Bony 7-21 zoom.  I get lot of oohs and awes every session with just these 2 eps.  Matter of fact they work well on all of my kits, C5, C8, C11,C14, AT115EDT, AT72EDii, Meade 12.5 LIghtBridge Dobs, Meade SN6. Now you know why I like these 2 eps. May be check columniation, it would not be the first time a brand new scope was out quite a bit, usually happens in shipping.

 

Outreaching and Teaching for those that are Seeking.

 

Clear Skies, Never Lose the Wonder

 

RF 

[Dave Mitsky]

A 70-degree apparent field of view 10mm Agena SWA (203x) would be a fairly good high-power eyepiece for your "slow" (high focal ratio) f/10 telescope.  However, 5-lens-element Erfle-type designs do not work well in "fast" telescopes.

https://agenaastro.c...a-eyepiece.html

Some of the other suggestions such as the more expensive 82-degree AFOV 10mm Astro-Tech UWA and zoom eyepieces are good ones.  Other possible options include a 60-degree AFOV 10.5mm Astro-Tech PF and a 60-degree AFOV 9mm Celestron X-Cel LX.

https://astronomics....6f81f7254&_ss=c

 

https://astronomics....2a7422c23&_ss=c

CN members get a small discount on non-sale items from our sponsor Astronomics.

https://www.cloudyni...y_discount.html

[Dave Mitsky]

Regarding the inclination of Saturn's rings, I've attached a hand-held afocal iPhone photo of Saturn that I took on 10/24/24 using the Naylor Observatory's 17" classical Cassegrain.

 

Saturn's rings will be completely edge-on in March of 2025.  

https://earthsky.org...ing-march-2025/

There's a graphic at https://www.curtrenz.com/saturn02.html that illustrates the ring tilt of Saturn at opposition from 2009 to 2039.  Saturn's year is 29.45 Earth years.

Attached Thumbnails

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[Starman89]

Absolute beginner here - first telescope. I bought a used Celestron C8 and have various lenses. Guess I was expecting to see Jupiter larger than just a point of light. Am I doing something wrong. Hoped I could see rhe rings of Saturn at least. Does it matter if o am in town with lots of light pollution? Just need some assurance this is what is normal and not like in the photos I see posted. Will a Barlow pr ,oom lens make things larger? Thank you for any advice.

I had a C5 and I could clearly see the cloud bands in Jupiter and 4 of its moons.  I could also see Saturn rings at the time.  I believe the position/tilt of Saturn is wrong now so most people wont be able to see the rings until 2026.

[rjacks]

You want a 9-10mm eyepiece to look at planets with your C8. Those will be 1.25" eyepieces, as 2" eyepieces don't go down to these focal lengths. Need to know a budget before we can make recommendations.  

[sevenofnine]

Welcome to C/N! 

 

Lots of great advice so far. Since the scope is used, make sure it's functioning properly before passing judgement. Point it at the Moon and slowly focus on the disc. The image should really pop with a C8 no matter which eyepiece you are using. If your scope only came with 2" eyepieces then they are most likely wide angle. See if you have a 2" to 1.25" adapter included. It fits into the focuser and allows you to use more high powered eyepieces like those mentioned in this post. One of the first items on your "To Buy List" should be a good astronomy guide book. 'The Backyard Astronomer's Guide 4th ed." is considered one of the best. Good luck! 

 

https://www.amazon.c...,aps,265&sr=8-1.

[WillR]

Regarding the inclination of Saturn's rings, I've attached a hand-held afocal iPhone photo of Saturn that I took on 10/24/24 using the Naylor Observatory's 17" classical Cassegrain.

 

Saturn's rings will be completely edge-on in March of 2025.  

https://earthsky.org...ing-march-2025/

There's a graphic at https://www.curtrenz.com/saturn02.html that illustrates the ring tilt of Saturn at opposition from 2009 to 2039.  Saturn's year is 29.45 Earth years.

I looked at it the other night. It definitely is noticeably more edge on than it was in October. At low power, 25x(?) I couldn’t see the rings at all and wondered if I was on something else.

Edited by WillR, 18 December 2024 - 08:29 PM.