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Eye relief of eyepieces for outreach

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16 replies to this topic

#1 Freezout

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 03:46 PM

Dear all,

 

Do some of you think that eyepieces with shorter eye relief are better for outreach than those with long eye relief? Especially outreach with kids who have great difficulties with placing their eyes and blackouts.

 

I made some outreach with kids last year and noticed that few kids could not see any image at all. I was using my Hyperions (long eye relief). A couple of days ago I showed the planets and the Moon to my 6 years old boy. He had difficulties. When looking at the full Moon it was easy for me to see the disc of bright light moving on his eye and tell him if he was close or not, but the whole thing was hard and when showing to a group of kids, it would be very time consuming and tiring for them.

 

I assume a simpler solution would be to use shorter eye relief eyepieces, in my memory they suffer way less from blackouts and are easier to use. Do you have the same experience?

My telescope is a slow one (f12) and for outreach I use a RA tracking motor.

I would show the Moon and planets mainly, as well as eventually some bright DSOs. 

 

I'm curious to have your feedback on this one!

 

 


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#2 Astrojensen

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 03:52 PM

Yes. I've had particularly good success with the ES68's and ES82's, as well as the Masuyama 16mm 85°. They seem to have just the right amount of eye relief for most people. Those who must wear glasses can still see a substantial part of the field. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#3 photoracer18

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 03:56 PM

I usually carry both for the reason Thomas mentioned, glasses wearers which includes me most of the time.


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#4 vtornado

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 04:00 PM

Hmm interesting points.   I have been using 20mm eye relief eyepieces to help glasses wearers.  I will consider this other dimension to the problem.

 

I have also been using a 26mm 2 inch eyepiece with a 2x barlow for the moon.  The larger eye lens seems to help.



#5 triplemon

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 04:03 PM

Sturdy, adjustable eyecups help setting them up for either eyeglass wearers of the opposite. I'd prefer twist-up ones.

Kids are much more likely to press their head firmly against any form of "eyestop" than adults, which are a lot more weary to bring their faces in contact with anything.


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#6 havasman

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 04:44 PM

I used various ES82's and ES68's for outreach until I got an ES100 14mm and found it was perfect with my XT10i for outreach for several reasons. First, the waterproof eyepieces allowed me to get all the muck off 'em between sessions. The long barrel of the 14mm gave folks a place to put their hands (no matter what, they will grab something) that wouldn't hurt anything but alignment when they moved the scope. The large eye lens was easier for them to find. 98x and a 1o FOV framed and showed good easy objects well and if the ER was a little short there was plenty of field left when they'd back up a bit to either find the exit pupil (2.6mm and plenty bright) or fit their glasses in.

 

I have kept ES68 24 & 20 because they are really good and also useful in my scopes but also in case the outreach opportunity comes back around. The rest are long gone.

 

I don't care for LER at all and it was easy to coach people into seeing with the notoriously short ER of the ES ep's. I'd not thought about it but yes, I think you may have something there. I did not think so when I first considered your proposition.


Edited by havasman, 16 January 2025 - 04:47 PM.

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#7 ShaulaB

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 04:52 PM

With patience, a child can eventually see the object in a longer focal length eyepiece. For outreach events at schools or scout meetings, heavily kid-centered, it's best to show them the Moon, bright planets, and big bright DSOs. Brighter objects are much easier for novices to see. M1 is cool, but even adults have a hard time seeing it. I use my SeeStar at outreach events anymore for DSOs dimmer than M42, as light pollution is getting worse.

 

I prefer around 15mm eye relief because I wear glasses. When an outreach guest accidentally bumps the scope or tripod, or puts a hard turn on the focus knob, it's easier for me to get the object back into the field of view and focused.

 

 

Sturdy, adjustable eyecups help setting them up for either eyeglass wearers of the opposite. I'd prefer twist-up ones.

Kids are much more likely to press their head firmly against any form of "eyestop" than adults, which are a lot more weary to bring their faces in contact with anything.

Agree. A lot of adults place their heads 10 centimeters or more away from the eyepiece until I tell them "it won't bite you."


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#8 PeterAB

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Posted 16 January 2025 - 09:46 PM

I have been liking longer eye relief eyepieces with moderate apparent field of views for outreach.   In addition to eye relief there is a hard-to-quantify ease-of-use quality of eyepieces.   I use Meade HD60's.    The Celestron X-CEL LX is a similar line.   Eye position is easy with these eyepieces.   The eye cup may be twisted up to help to help those without glasses find the eye position.    They also put up a nice views and are not too expensive.

 

I totally agree starting viewing sessions with something bright and interesting.    Saturn is my favorite.   New observers are thrilled to see it and they will let you know.

 

I'm interested in what has be working for others.

 

Peter


Edited by PeterAB, 16 January 2025 - 09:46 PM.

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#9 PolyWogg

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 06:50 PM

I'm going to go a bit more general than simple eye relief and beyond just kids. I have a 8SE that is awesome with my Delos 17.3mm EP. Nice big piece of glass, I can use it with and without glasses, I LOVE it.

 

But sometimes kids, sometimes adults, they'll come and go to look, and say we're looking at Saturn...first person oohs and aaahs. Second person the same. Third person the same. Fourth person, "Meh". Huh? Oh, wait...I swap out the 17.3mm EP and replace with simple 15mm plossl. Or even 25mm plossl. "Ahhh, that's amazing". 

 

Not everyone's eyes are the same, some of that is glasses, some of it is curvature, some of it is pupil size, etc. My son's eyes are very different from mine, he wears contacts, and he LOVES plossls. Hates my 17.33mm Delos with any eye relief. Tons of people swear by Naglers, I was about to give into the hype and buy one, and the store set me up with sample in-store looking across a lake -- hard nope. I hated it.

 

Everytime I see someone struggle, I swap between my large big EP and my plossls, everytime it seems to fix their issue. Even for experienced viewers, young or old.


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#10 triplemon

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Posted 17 January 2025 - 10:30 PM

Many are just to polite or shy to admit they haven't even seen what they should. That could result in a meh reaction.

Always have them tell you what they saw.


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#11 Freezout

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Posted 18 January 2025 - 01:49 AM

Many are just to polite or shy to admit they haven't even seen what they should. That could result in a meh reaction.
Always have them tell you what they saw.



Exactly.
-did you see something?
- uh yes I saw it
-how did it look?
- a grey round
- continue to move your head…
- ohhhhhh! It’s the planet!!! It has 1, 2. 3 little white points next to it!
- good it’s Jupiter!

#12 hardwarezone

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Posted 18 January 2025 - 05:42 AM

I use 32mm plossl and the 15mm "Celestron spotting scope" eyepiece. Both have about 20mm ER.

Encountered a few who couldn't see anything , if they are guys I will gently hold the side of their head to reposition their eyes nearer or further for a small physical gap to the eyepiece.

Children tend to bump all the way in until it fully cups their eye socket.

For both eyepieces I use it with the rubber and eyecup raised to maximum.

 

I did realize the 15mm eyepiece eyecup at fixed height could be cutting off the side AFOV for spectacle users as more than half the population here are so. Problem is stacked as my mount is untracked.

For 1 outreach I tried to lower the eyecup down flat and it was badly smudged. Either I do mid height or full height.



#13 SporadicGazer

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Posted 19 January 2025 - 12:20 PM

I think there is a lot of personal preference, both observer and presenter, in this choice.  For me, the screw up / screw down eye cups are key to my feelings of success when doing outreach.  For people with glasses, I really want the eye relief to allow them to get close enough comfortably to see what we're showing.  But quickly twisting the eye cup up for people without glasses helps them position their eye correctly and keeps them from wiping their eyelashes all over my EP.

 

Of course, YMMV!



#14 GolgafrinchanB

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Posted 22 January 2025 - 12:39 AM

I've also had good success with the X-Cel LX series due to the "twist up" eye cup design - I actually ask a group to sort themselves between glasses and non-glasses users to reduce switchover, but admittedly I have mostly worked with adults. YMMV with 6 year olds :)

 

Also, 60deg FOV, a pretty sharp image, and slightly <$100 makes me feel like I'm treating people to something nice without having to stress out about my TeleVue pieces being smudged by a kid.


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#15 Freezout

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Posted 22 January 2025 - 01:00 AM

Thanks a lot to all of you. I think I will soon go hunting for second hand eps with short ER and if possible proper eyecups!

#16 RTLR 12

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Posted 10 February 2025 - 04:14 AM

I have been using a Televue "Pupil Guide" at outreach with various eyepieces and it has really helped people that have had difficulty to find objects in the eyepiece.

 

Stan


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#17 BKBrown

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Posted 12 February 2025 - 01:23 PM

I acquired my set of ES82s specifically for outreach events. Not that they don't get used at home wink.png

 

Clear Skies,

Brian snoopy2.gif




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