I stupidly bought a Player One Sedna-M guide camera without looking deeply into it's specs. I just can't hit focus to save my life due to large donuts around all the stars, which I believe now to an IR problem as this camera doesn't seem to have any IR blocking filters. I'm not real happy about having to pay an extra $50 for a screw on filter for it. Does any one else have any suggestions? They don't sell replacement glass for the camera sensor like ZWO does, so I'm guessing I'm SOL. Is this a guide scope problem or camera problem? I've been using my Orion SSAG for almost a decade and never had this issue on any of the guide scopes I used it with. I'm just not sure why it's suddenly become an issue.

IR blocking filter for Player One guide camera?
#1
Posted 16 January 2025 - 11:35 PM
#2
Posted 16 January 2025 - 11:43 PM
I stupidly bought a Player One Sedna-M guide camera without looking deeply into it's specs. I just can't hit focus to save my life due to large donuts around all the stars, which I believe now to an IR problem as this camera doesn't seem to have any IR blocking filters. I'm not real happy about having to pay an extra $50 for a screw on filter for it. Does any one else have any suggestions? They don't sell replacement glass for the camera sensor like ZWO does, so I'm guessing I'm SOL. Is this a guide scope problem or camera problem? I've been using my Orion SSAG for almost a decade and never had this issue on any of the guide scopes I used it with. I'm just not sure why it's suddenly become an issue.
If your using this to guide with its no problem your not supposed to block IR with a guide camera. As IR light is disturbed less from the atmosphere (or something along those lines)
And guide camera focus doesnt need to be perfect at all. Maybe its a different problem, i'd upload a screenshot so we can assist better.
None of us use IR blockers on our guide setups.
Edited by Andros246, 16 January 2025 - 11:44 PM.
#3
Posted 16 January 2025 - 11:52 PM
If your using this to guide with its no problem your not supposed to block IR with a guide camera. As IR light is disturbed less from the atmosphere (or something along those lines)
And guide camera focus doesnt need to be perfect at all. Maybe its a different problem, i'd upload a screenshot so we can assist better.
None of us use IR blockers on our guide setups.
This is about the best focus I'm able to get with it. Moving in, or out, results in fatter stars. I cannot get the nice perfect pinpoint stars I've had with my Orion SSAG for literally ever. I've never seen stars look like this before, and upon searching it appears other people have called it IR interfearance and recommended a filter.
#4
Posted 17 January 2025 - 12:02 AM
This is about the best focus I'm able to get with it. Moving in, or out, results in fatter stars. I cannot get the nice perfect pinpoint stars I've had with my Orion SSAG for literally ever. I've never seen stars look like this before, and upon searching it appears other people have called it IR interfearance and recommended a filter.
Yeah thats definitely IR bloat, scope could play a big part in how "bad" it is.
Hows the actual guiding affected? Better/worse/the same?
Until you get another opinion i'd just leave it unless you know for sure its hurting your guiding.
I personally dont know anyone who blocks IR on their guiding setup.
Edited by Andros246, 17 January 2025 - 12:04 AM.
#5
Posted 17 January 2025 - 12:06 AM
Yeah thats definitely IR bloat,
Hows the actual guiding affected? Better/worse/the same?
Until you get another opinion i'd just leave it unless you know for sure its hurting your guiding.
I personally dont know anyone who blocks IR on their guiding setup.
I can't say for sure this is 100% whats causing the issue, but yes, since my Orion SSAG died and I replaced it with the Sedna-M, I have not been able to maintain steady guiding at all. My sequence is failing before it starts, or if it does, fails after trying to settle after the first dither. Its an old CGEM, it isn't perfect, but prior to this camera switch I was maintaining a total RMS error of 0.2-0.3, now I can barely hit 0.6.
The guidescope is an SVBony 60mm. Anyone else seen this issue with that scope?
Edited by Sean13, 17 January 2025 - 12:12 AM.
#6
Posted 17 January 2025 - 12:17 AM
I can't say for sure this is 100% whats causing the issue, but yes, since my Orion SSAG died and I replaced it with the Sedna-M, I have not been able to maintain steady guiding at all. My sequence is failing before it starts, or if it does, fails after trying to settle after the first dither. Its an old CGEM, it isn't perfect, but prior to this camera switch I was maintaining a total RMS error of 0.2-0.3, now I can barely hit 0.6.
.2-.3 sounds outrageously good like almost too good to be true unless you typically get excellent seeing.
Assuming you edited/recreated a new profile to ensure the new guide camera specs are correctly entered.
I'd be curious to see what others have to say because I dont block IR and I do not have large/huge bloat that you do I have little bloat, so it could be the guide scope.
Edited by Andros246, 17 January 2025 - 12:18 AM.
#7
Posted 17 January 2025 - 12:17 AM
My guess is that the OAG is simply not optimally set - as close to the long side of main camera chip as possible without casting a shadow. That leads to larger and larger stars as you are now far from the image circle of your scope.
I say that because I have NEVER seen 10" stars on any OAG. So, I also have to ask you to post a log. Is there any chance that you have not set the focal length of the scope correctly.
I've never seen significant IR bloat with any of my telescopes and I don't think that's what you have. In 15 years of OAG guiding I've never needed nor used a filter. I'd be more inclined to think that the scope has very poor off axis performance than to listen to anyone claiming that a filter is going to help you.
Of course, I've never seen evidence that a CGEM can deliver .2" RMS guiding. I have I have two AP Mach 2's at 4000 feet in the desert and I rarely get below .3" and those mounts have absolute encoders. So, post a log, maybe there's just something that needs tweaking.
There's always a first time for anything in this hobby though..................
#8
Posted 17 January 2025 - 12:33 AM
My guess is that the OAG is simply not optimally set - as close to the long side of main camera chip as possible without casting a shadow. That leads to larger and larger stars as you are now far from the image circle of your scope.
I say that because I have NEVER seen 10" stars on any OAG. So, I also have to ask you to post a log. Is there any chance that you have not set the focal length of the scope correctly.
I've never seen significant IR bloat with any of my telescopes and I don't think that's what you have. In 15 years of OAG guiding I've never needed nor used a filter. I'd be more inclined to think that the scope has very poor off axis performance than to listen to anyone claiming that a filter is going to help you.
Of course, I've never seen evidence that a CGEM can deliver .2" RMS guiding. I have I have two AP Mach 2's at 4000 feet in the desert and I rarely get below .3" and those mounts have absolute encoders. So, post a log, maybe there's just something that needs tweaking.
There's always a first time for anything in this hobby though..................
No OAG. This a 60mm guide scope that never had issues until my 10 year old Orion SSAG camera died and I had to replace it quickly. I did create a new profile, and setup the specs for the new camera information, new calibration, etc.
I am assuming the readout in PHD for RMS error is calculated for a ~250mm FL guide scope, not the 714mm telescope. The numbers may be off to the rest of the world, but for my setup, thats the numbers PHD has put out for quite some time. I wouldn't expect a camera change to suddenly cause this kind of guiding issues. I have been shooting images with pinpoint stars for months up until this camera change, now I can't even finish a full rotation of the filter wheel before the sequence errors out for guider issues.
I see the Orion SSAG is still available thru some retailers, and its worked flawless for me up until this point. I just figured there were better options out there besides a 10-15 year old Orion guide camera, but I feel I'm going to have to bite the bullet and order up another one.
I am switching guide scopes tonight as we speak to see if I see this same IR bloat thru a different guide scope.
#9
Posted 17 January 2025 - 12:38 AM
Sorry, ignore my post.
#12
Posted 17 January 2025 - 01:09 AM
If your using this to guide with its no problem your not supposed to block IR with a guide camera. As IR light is disturbed less from the atmosphere (or something along those lines)
And guide camera focus doesnt need to be perfect at all. Maybe its a different problem, i'd upload a screenshot so we can assist better.
None of us use IR blockers on our guide setups.
I've been testing with and without a UVIR filter on my guide camera for about a year. As far as my tests show, I get sharper stars. No clear evidence of improved guiding, however it is certainly not worse.
So my verdict (for now) is there is no reason NOT to use a UVIR filter on a guidescope.
A simple and cheap screw-in 1.25 inch filter fits perfectly.
Edited by archiebald, 17 January 2025 - 01:14 AM.
- rlmxracer, Sean13 and Andros246 like this
#13
Posted 17 January 2025 - 01:13 AM
I stupidly bought a Player One Sedna-M guide camera without looking deeply into it's specs. I just can't hit focus to save my life due to large donuts around all the stars, which I believe now to an IR problem as this camera doesn't seem to have any IR blocking filters. I'm not real happy about having to pay an extra $50 for a screw on filter for it. Does any one else have any suggestions? They don't sell replacement glass for the camera sensor like ZWO does, so I'm guessing I'm SOL. Is this a guide scope problem or camera problem? I've been using my Orion SSAG for almost a decade and never had this issue on any of the guide scopes I used it with. I'm just not sure why it's suddenly become an issue.
If you're coming from the ZWO world I can understand your confusion as many of their cameras are only available with an IR filter, however most or all other makers either use AR glass only, or give two alternatives.
Anyhow, glad you got over your problem - enjoy your Player One camera.
- Sean13 likes this
#14
Posted 17 January 2025 - 01:34 AM
I've been testing with and without a UVIR filter on my guide camera for about a year. As far as my tests show, I get sharper stars. No clear evidence of improved guiding, however it is certainly not worse.
So my verdict (for now) is there is no reason NOT to use a UVIR filter on a guidescope.
A simple and cheap screw-in 1.25 inch filter fits perfectly.
ever thought about trying a straight IR filter?
#15
Posted 17 January 2025 - 02:06 AM
Maybe you can check aliexpress?
A ZWO screw-on 1.25 inch IR cut filter is a little more than $10 in China.
#16
Posted 17 January 2025 - 06:16 AM
ever thought about trying a straight IR filter?
I wasn't planning on doing any serious testing so I just bought the most convenient filter available.
#17
Posted 18 January 2025 - 01:33 AM
"No clear evidence of improved guiding, however it is certainly not worse."
That wouldn't be the acid test for me. The test should be improved data - FWHM and eccentricity. Any idea how those were affected by the change?
#18
Posted 18 January 2025 - 04:54 AM
"No clear evidence of improved guiding, however it is certainly not worse."
That wouldn't be the acid test for me. The test should be improved data - FWHM and eccentricity. Any idea how those were affected by the change?
"No clear evidence of improved guiding, however it is certainly not worse...." encompasses PHD2 logs, FWHM figures, star eccentricity, all of the above...etc, etc.
Besides which it would be necessary to run a control under identical seeing conditions to establish any changes. Like I said, it was just a casual test, not what you'd call a scientific experiment.
I've left the UVIR filter in place on my guide camera for now.