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What was the most expensive line of scopes offered to amateurs?

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#1 RichA

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 12:14 AM

 I'm sure if you go back to say the 1800s, Zeiss refractors in the 3-5 inch range cost a mint, relative to income, but more contemporarily, I'm wondering if perhaps certain Japanese lines from the 60s and 70s might be classed as the most expensive?  Some of the Japanese scopes back then appear to be very heavily built with precision mounts which generally means cost.


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#2 dave253

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 12:35 AM

Interesting! I wonder how much the 6” Goto in the ‘full moon star party’ thread originally cost.

 

 I do remember Unitron refractors were very very expensive here in Australia in the 60s-80s.



#3 rob1986

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 12:53 AM

Caves 20" newt? Bet that cost
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#4 bobzeq25

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 12:57 AM

Questar started in 1954. That was a 3.5. In 1967 they introduced the 7. It never sold well, because of the high price. About $15,000, there were variations.

LZOS was selling some large refractors about then, but price info is very hard to come by, I think mostly they were custom built.

Takahashi and Vixen were pretty much only making small scopes at that time.

Edited by bobzeq25, 24 January 2025 - 01:10 AM.


#5 Shoestring Astronomy

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 12:59 AM

I think when Meade was around, they had their 16" SCT for about $35k



#6 triplemon

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 01:18 AM

Its mostly a question of definition - what is a "telescope line" vs a one-off custom telescope.

 

There are lots of companies advertising their capabilities by showing specs and prices for scaled up scopes of something they may manufacture on a regular basis in some quantity. Vs others that just say "we can make things up to this size, come and talk to us."

 

Just look at Fullum, Lockwood/Pratte and hey, even Orion once advertised I think dobs up to 50 inches. And then there is all those RC and CDK for imaging, made by Planewave et al. I'd say in imaging the lines between "enthusiast individual" and "institutional/scientific observatory" offerings and operations are particularly diffuse. There are likely $100k plus scopes in some shared remote imaging operations, would that count as "offered to amateurs telescope" ?


Edited by triplemon, 24 January 2025 - 02:04 AM.


#7 SoCalPaul

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 01:23 AM

"Offered to amateurs" could be a broadly interpreted phrase.

 

As far as I know, anyone or any institution can buy from Planewave, and they cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

https://planewave.co...all-telescopes/

 

I have seen posts from amateurs who have installed them in their private observatories, e.g.:

 

https://youtu.be/q_U...?feature=shared

 

Ok, that one is only $56k.

 

Clear skies,

Paul


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#8 RichA

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 01:38 AM

there was a company offering various Japanese lines for importation into the U.S. in the early 1990s and some of them looked very expensive, though no prices were offered in  the ads.



#9 TOMDEY

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 03:06 AM

Sometimes a big successful company will offer an absurdly extravagant product just to galvanize their earned reputation for cutting-edge research and excellence. I'd put the Televue Apollo 11 Eyepiece and the Nikon 10x50 WX "Astronomy Binocular" in that league. Also the redoubtable Zeiss 20x60 Image Stabilized Binocular. Nearly all amateurs choke on the cost, declaring it a rip-off. But the real puzzle is actually how little they cost. These companies earn their fortunes on their more traditional price-point offerings. The extravagant few top-shelf items are more for bragging rights than profit.     Tom

 

Yeah... I have all three mentioned above. Not for unearned bragging rights... but for the priceless gloating rights.


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#10 Kasmos

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 04:28 AM

Perhaps Nishimura fits into this category?

It appears that they built premium scopes for amateurs, schools, and observatories.

 

https://www.cloudyni...-far-fewer-own/


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#11 Astrojensen

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 05:17 AM

It's a nearly impossible question to answer without some qualifiers, since the line between amateur and professional can be so blurry. As has been mentioned, there's nothing preventing you, as an individual, to order a professional-size telescope from any maker. If you can pay for it, Zeiss will be more than happy to build you a 2-meter Ritchey-Chretien on a huge mount, complete with observatory. And we don't have to go all that far back in time, before a 12" scope was considered suitable for a professional observatory. Many of the Japanese (and some German) larger amateur scopes really are made like mini versions of professional telescopes. In some ways, I wish we could get manufacturers like that again, but in all honesty, very few would buy their scopes, most likely.  

 

If we rearrange the question a bit, things might be easier to answer:

 

- what was the most expensive 60-65mm refractor ever offered? 

- Ditto 80mm?

- 100 - 110mm? 

- 120 - 130mm?

- 150 - 155mm? 

- The most expensive 150mm Maksutov? 

- The most expensive 180mm Maksutov? 

 

And so on. You get the idea. 

 

Also, as you already hint at yourself, telescopes were WAY more expensive in the past, so should we limit ourselves to the period after WW2? It's only really after WW2 that telescopes truly become available in larger numbers for the average amateur and they start to become mass produced. Or at least in larger batches. 

 

Finding accurate prices on a lot of the scopes might be fairly challenging, though. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


Edited by Astrojensen, 24 January 2025 - 05:21 AM.

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#12 mikeDnight

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 05:44 AM

I've no idea! I did have a full collection of Sky & Telescope magazines dating back to the early 1950's, and was amazed at the price of a 4" Unitron with equatorial mount, pier and clock drive. Seriously astronomical for the time.


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#13 CHASLX200

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 06:44 AM

AP's and Q's.



#14 Astrojensen

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 06:53 AM

AP's and Q's.

Far from it. Zeiss, Takahashi and Pentax apochromats were WAY more expensive than Astro-Physics. An 8" Takahashi cost $200k... 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#15 CHASLX200

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 07:04 AM

Far from it. Zeiss, Takahashi and Pentax apochromats were WAY more expensive than Astro-Physics. An 8" Takahashi cost $200k... 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

Not true at all.  No one is gonna buy a 8" Tak and it was more than 200k. Zeiss never enters my mind so that is out.  Never saw a ad for a 8" Tak in Sky& tele.   $17k for a used 6" AP is nuts.  Same for the Q's asking over 4k for a silly 3.5".


Edited by CHASLX200, 24 January 2025 - 07:06 AM.


#16 Astrojensen

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 07:33 AM

 

Zeiss never enters my mind so that is out.

Okay, so because you don't think about them, they automatically disqualify? That is just... Wow. I don't have anything kind to say about that, so I better not. 

 

 

Not true at all.  No one is gonna buy a 8" Tak and it was more than 200k. [...] Never saw a ad for a 8" Tak in Sky& tele.

Okay, so let's ignore the 8" Tak and look at 6" versions instead. They were over 18k list price. That was at the time a 6" A-P cost around 6k. Ed Ting did a review of them, so they definitely existed in the US. https://www.scoperev...com/clash2.html

 

 

$17k for a used 6" AP is nuts.

Let's not bring prices for used instruments into the mix, because they can be all over the place and are completely unpredictable. 

 

 

Same for the Q's asking over 4k for a silly 3.5"

That's the whole idea of the thread. And they're over 6.5k now, BTW, from what I have heard. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


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#17 Jay_Reynolds_Freeman

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 07:38 AM

Not true at all.  No one is gonna buy a 8" Tak and it was more than 200k. Zeiss never enters my mind so that is out.  Never saw a ad for a 8" Tak in Sky& tele.   $17k for a used 6" AP is nuts.  Same for the Q's asking over 4k for a silly 3.5".

Takahashi America's website currently lists a 200 mm triplet OTA for only $94100.00 -- but that is just for the OTA. And it's back-ordered. Go figure ...


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#18 Lagrange

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 09:56 AM

This 6" Cooke refractor from 1867 in its deluxe configuration with features like engraved silver setting circles cost the equivalent of more than 8 years wages for the average working man in Britain.

 

Putting that into a modern US context based on current wages, it would cost around half a million dollars... for a 6" achromat (albeit one that's exceptionally beautiful and well made).

 

 

gallery_25614_18521_9526.jpeg


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#19 dave253

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:01 AM

Takahashi America's website currently lists a 200 mm triplet OTA for only $94100.00 -- but that is just for the OTA. And it's back-ordered. Go figure ...

Quite possibly they wouldn’t start building one without a sizeable deposit?



#20 Lagrange

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:16 AM

Quite possibly they wouldn’t start building one without a sizeable deposit?

The optics would be a special one-off order from Canon Optron so I'd assume Takahashi would require a large enough deposit to cover that cost at the very least.


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#21 Terra Nova

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:16 AM

In my lifetime, I would suspect that it would be the various Questars, 3.5”, 7”, and 12”. Certainly so per inch of aperture I would think.


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#22 deSitter

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:28 AM

One of the first catalogs I request as Astronomy Kid was from Unitron. I well remember reeling in astonishment at the prices of the 4" scopes - which became branded into my memory - $1175 for a tripod photo-eq, $1280 for a pier-mounted version. I had never seen anything needing 4 digits of money. I calculated how long it would take to save up $1175 from allowance and cut yards. Answer - too long :)

 

-drl


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#23 starman876

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:33 AM

I remember ads from Japan and Zeiss for the refractors.  I had no clue who could afford them.  However, I am sure the guys with deep pockets could afford them.  Just because they were out of the price range of the average astronomer did not mean they were not available.   The little Q started out at a hefty price more then the cost of an average car in those days.  There were scopes by Tinsley that were offered to anyone , but few could afford them.  There is  a long list.


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#24 Terra Nova

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:36 AM

One of the first catalogs I request as Astronomy Kid was from Unitron. I well remember reeling in astonishment at the prices of the 4" scopes - which became branded into my memory - $1175 for a tripod photo-eq, $1280 for a pier-mounted version. I had never seen anything needing 4 digits of money. I calculated how long it would take to save up $1175 from allowance and cut yards. Answer - too long smile.gif

 

-drl

They were easily and most certainly the telescopes that I was most enamored with in my youth!


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#25 starman876

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Posted 24 January 2025 - 10:51 AM

They were easily and most certainly the telescopes that I was most enamored with in my youth!

I forgot the cost of a 6" Unitron.   I found it

 

https://www.unitronh...1958Catalog.pdf

 

cost for a 6" in 1958 was between 5-6000 dollars.   That exceeded most peoples salary at the time which was around $4900


Edited by starman876, 24 January 2025 - 10:57 AM.

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