Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

What was the most expensive line of scopes offered to amateurs?

  • Please log in to reply
88 replies to this topic

#26 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    James Webb Space Telescope

  • *****
  • Posts: 17,913
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 24 January 2025 - 11:18 AM

In my lifetime, I would suspect that it would be the various Questars, 3.5”, 7”, and 12”. Certainly so per inch of aperture I would think.

I've never seen even an estimated price for the 12" Questar. Anyone has one? 

 

The 3.5" and 7" were certainly very expensive. The Zeiss Meniscas 150, and later 180, were also eye-wateringly expensive. In Denmark, the Meniscas 150 cost as much as a new VW Beetle in the mid-60'ies. That was for a fully equipped scope, though, with pier, mount and eyepiece turret with five eyepieces. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


Edited by Astrojensen, 24 January 2025 - 11:19 AM.

  • Corcaroli78 likes this

#27 deSitter

deSitter

    Still in Old School

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,889
  • Joined: 09 Dec 2004

Posted 24 January 2025 - 11:30 AM

I've never seen even an estimated price for the 12" Questar. Anyone has one? 

 

The 3.5" and 7" were certainly very expensive. The Zeiss Meniscas 150, and later 180, were also eye-wateringly expensive. In Denmark, the Meniscas 150 cost as much as a new VW Beetle in the mid-60'ies. That was for a fully equipped scope, though, with pier, mount and eyepiece turret with five eyepieces. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

I remember Beetles advertised for less that $1K in the late 60s. That was $300 less than a Unitron 166 4" photo-eq.

 

-drl


  • Astrojensen likes this

#28 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    James Webb Space Telescope

  • *****
  • Posts: 17,913
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 24 January 2025 - 11:39 AM

I remember Beetles advertised for less that $1K in the late 60s. That was $300 less than a Unitron 166 4" photo-eq.

 

-drl

There were some hefty taxes on new cars in Denmark at that time - and still are. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


  • Corcaroli78 likes this

#29 SoCalPaul

SoCalPaul

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 891
  • Joined: 16 Sep 2005
  • Loc: SoCal

Posted 24 January 2025 - 12:35 PM

I've never seen even an estimated price for the 12" Questar. Anyone has one? 

 

The 3.5" and 7" were certainly very expensive. The Zeiss Meniscas 150, and later 180, were also eye-wateringly expensive. In Denmark, the Meniscas 150 cost as much as a new VW Beetle in the mid-60'ies. That was for a fully equipped scope, though, with pier, mount and eyepiece turret with five eyepieces. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

To my spouse's shock, my primary road bicycle also cost more than some cars. :-)

 

Paul


  • Astrojensen, ianatcn and triplemon like this

#30 Astrojensen

Astrojensen

    James Webb Space Telescope

  • *****
  • Posts: 17,913
  • Joined: 05 Oct 2008
  • Loc: Bornholm, Denmark

Posted 24 January 2025 - 01:19 PM

To my spouse's shock, my primary road bicycle also cost more than some cars. :-)

 

Paul

I've also had a car like that once. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark


  • SoCalPaul, schiefspiegler, ianatcn and 1 other like this

#31 Jay_Reynolds_Freeman

Jay_Reynolds_Freeman

    Explorer 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 77
  • Joined: 10 May 2019

Posted 24 January 2025 - 04:17 PM

It is stretching it a bit -- well, maybe more than a bit -- but we might remember that George Ellery Hale got his start as a teen-age observer and telescope builder, and though he did study science later in life, he never finished his Ph.D. program. Thus particularly snobbish astrophysicists might choose to consider him a non-professional. So the Yerkes 40-inch refractor, the 60- and 100-inch reflectors at Mount Wilson, and the 200-inch reflector at Palomar Mountain might possibly be considered as having been procured by an amateur.

 

Just saying ...


  • deSitter, SoCalPaul and Astrojensen like this

#32 Kitfox

Kitfox

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • Posts: 2,864
  • Joined: 25 May 2022
  • Loc: North Carolina, USA

Posted 24 January 2025 - 06:39 PM

I think Tak was proud of how expensive the FCTs were in the 80’s and 90’s.  They considered them a showcase of their “art” and craftsmanship in a functional optical tube.  And the FCT 200 that is in the Tak museum (?) in Japan is my dream scope…well, right behind the equally unobtainable Pentax SDP150. 


Edited by Kitfox, 24 January 2025 - 06:50 PM.

  • deSitter and Bomber Bob like this

#33 bobzeq25

bobzeq25

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 36,127
  • Joined: 27 Oct 2014

Posted 24 January 2025 - 06:46 PM

"Offered to amateurs" could be a broadly interpreted phrase.
 
As far as I know, anyone or any institution can buy from Planewave, and they cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars.
 
https://planewave.co...all-telescopes/
 
I have seen posts from amateurs who have installed them in their private observatories, e.g.:
 
https://youtu.be/q_U...?feature=shared
 
Ok, that one is only $56k.
 
Clear skies,
Paul

Planewave officially started in 2006, although some of the founders made a few telescopes before then.

#34 CHASLX200

CHASLX200

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 42,936
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Tampa area Florida

Posted 24 January 2025 - 06:51 PM

Takahashi America's website currently lists a 200 mm triplet OTA for only $94100.00 -- but that is just for the OTA. And it's back-ordered. Go figure ...

Name someone on here that has one. I was talking the mount as well that weights a ton.



#35 CHASLX200

CHASLX200

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 42,936
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Tampa area Florida

Posted 24 January 2025 - 06:53 PM

I think Tak was proud of how expensive the FCTs were in the 80’s and 90’s.  They considered them a showcase of their “art” and craftsmanship in a functional optical tube.  And the FCT 200 that is in the Tak museum (?) in Japan is my dream scope…well, right behind the equally unobtainable Pentax SDP150. 

Nothing looks better than a gray NJP160.



#36 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 26,531
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 24 January 2025 - 08:51 PM

Name someone on here that has one. I was talking the mount as well that weights a ton.

The subject question is the most expensive and thats what folks are providing.


Edited by starman876, 24 January 2025 - 08:52 PM.


#37 CHASLX200

CHASLX200

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 42,936
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Tampa area Florida

Posted 25 January 2025 - 06:32 AM

The subject question is the most expensive and thats what folks are providing.

Q's AP's . Tak was insane high back in the 80's and Tec's by heck.  I don't count school scopes that weigh a ton or cost over 100k since that is not something 99 % buy gents.The Tak 8" is a school scope.



#38 Lagrange

Lagrange

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,992
  • Joined: 16 Apr 2007
  • Loc: North West England

Posted 25 January 2025 - 08:10 AM

Q's AP's . Tak was insane high back in the 80's and Tec's by heck.  I don't count school scopes that weigh a ton or cost over 100k since that is not something 99 % buy gents.The Tak 8" is a school scope.

99% of scope buyers don't purchase Questars or A-Ps either. At least with the Tak, if you pay the money you get the scope. There's no uncertainty over waiting lists or lotteries, and it's a production model (albeit very infrequent) with a list price rather than a custom one-off build created to a customer's required specification.


  • Kitfox likes this

#39 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 26,531
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 10:50 AM

Q's AP's . Tak was insane high back in the 80's and Tec's by heck.  I don't count school scopes that weigh a ton or cost over 100k since that is not something 99 % buy gents.The Tak 8" is a school scope.

you do not make the rules Chas of what counts or not.  Sorry. 


  • Lagrange, Astrojensen, Corcaroli78 and 1 other like this

#40 CHASLX200

CHASLX200

    ISS

  • *****
  • Posts: 42,936
  • Joined: 29 Sep 2007
  • Loc: Tampa area Florida

Posted 25 January 2025 - 11:38 AM

you do not make the rules Chas of what counts or not.  Sorry. 

It is my rule book that counts to me. If you want the most pricey then lets try the 200 inch Hale or other big guns like that.



#41 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 26,531
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 11:48 AM

It is my rule book that counts to me. If you want the most pricey then lets try the 200 inch Hale or other big guns like that.

the poster did say available to amateurs.   I do not see an amateur ordering a 200" hale.  


  • Lagrange likes this

#42 rob1986

rob1986

    Gemini

  • -----
  • Posts: 3,411
  • Joined: 15 Dec 2020

Posted 25 January 2025 - 11:48 AM

I should think if ordering the scope doesnt require a formal contract, but rather just an email, payment, etc, it ceases to be "marketed to ametures"

Otherwise meades 16" certainly doesnt count in this discussion, and thats preposturous.

(I think we all agree meade actively marketed the 16 to schools, and as i understand it is or was very common)

#43 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 26,531
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 11:51 AM

I should think if ordering the scope doesnt require a formal contract, but rather just an email, payment, etc, it ceases to be "marketed to ametures"

Otherwise meades 16" certainly doesnt count in this discussion, and thats preposturous.

(I think we all agree meade actively marketed the 16 to schools, and as i understand it is or was very common)

A lot of folks bought the 16" meade.  I was thinking about it one time, but figured unless I had someone to help me lift the tube onto the mount I would rarely use it.   



#44 rob1986

rob1986

    Gemini

  • -----
  • Posts: 3,411
  • Joined: 15 Dec 2020

Posted 25 January 2025 - 11:56 AM

A lot of folks bought the 16" meade. I was thinking about it one time, but figured unless I had someone to help me lift the tube onto the mount I would rarely use it.

Exactly, but the advertisements and copy made their intended audience abundantly clear.

You could also buy a 1.5m planewave.

Edited by rob1986, 25 January 2025 - 11:57 AM.


#45 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 26,531
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 12:10 PM

Exactly, but the advertisements and copy made their intended audience abundantly clear.

You could also buy a 1.5m planewave.

There were so many telescopes offered for sale to amateurs.  However, few could afford them.   If you had the money you could buy any scope you want.    I lusted over the Tak ads with those beautiful large refractors.  Those mounts were something else.  However, you needed a permanent observatory for them. 



#46 rob1986

rob1986

    Gemini

  • -----
  • Posts: 3,411
  • Joined: 15 Dec 2020

Posted 25 January 2025 - 12:16 PM

Which also doesnt make a good divide. The starfinder 16 EQ, the research grades etc also really required a permenant observatory in reality.

It didnt stop ametures from bringing them (and lx200 16s) to the field

And plenty of amatures have their own observatories.

Heck, if my cards play outright i might have one on my roof.

#47 starman876

starman876

    Nihon Seiko

  • *****
  • Vendors
  • Posts: 26,531
  • Joined: 28 Apr 2008
  • Loc: VA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 12:21 PM

Which also doesnt make a good divide. The starfinder 16 EQ, the research grades etc also really required a permenant observatory in reality.

It didnt stop ametures from bringing them (and lx200 16s) to the field

And plenty of amatures have their own observatories.

Heck, if my cards play outright i might have one on my roof.

I has the DS16 and it was a beast.  Use to roll it around in and out of the garage when I had a garage.  Might of enjoyed it more if I would have bought rings for it.  However, you had to be a very strong person to manage one.  But that did not stop folks from buying one.  Aperture is a lust that is hard to control. 



#48 deSitter

deSitter

    Still in Old School

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,889
  • Joined: 09 Dec 2004

Posted 25 January 2025 - 01:00 PM

I has the DS16 and it was a beast.  Use to roll it around in and out of the garage when I had a garage.  Might of enjoyed it more if I would have bought rings for it.  However, you had to be a very strong person to manage one.  But that did not stop folks from buying one.  Aperture is a lust that is hard to control. 

I knew very early that the biggest Newt I'd ever want to handle was 10". As a kid f/6 would have been a breeze. Today the f/4.5 is getting challenging :) I may someday indulge in a 12" compact Dob, although I really don't like Dobs. EQ Mounting a 12" would be nearly twice the hassle. I'd need an LXD750 :)

 

-drl


  • bjkaras and rob1986 like this

#49 deSitter

deSitter

    Still in Old School

  • *****
  • Posts: 20,889
  • Joined: 09 Dec 2004

Posted 25 January 2025 - 01:13 PM

High prices for telescopes have always made me blanch. I'm not cheap and although never exactly on easy street, I'm not broke either. However I have always gravitated toward commercial offerings from Meade, Celestron etc. I think the community has a vested interest in seeing these places thrive. A 3" quality refractor in 1969 is $1400 in today's money. It was just as imported as today's Chinese scopes, but the expense did not include a discount for inexpensive labor in Japan - that is true. But even if we cut that in half, $700 is a lot for a starter scope with no motor drive.

 

I absolutely admire the boutique makers like Tak and AP and wish them only the best. Nevertheless, they do not appeal to me as an owner. They are just too precious! I always look for production models that can rival the boutique items in optical performance, and have been very successful at that. It's a challenge!

 

-drl


  • Bonco2 and Kasmos like this

#50 ccwemyss

ccwemyss

    Gemini

  • *****
  • Posts: 3,284
  • Joined: 11 Aug 2016
  • Loc: Massachusetts

Posted 25 January 2025 - 04:03 PM

It's an interesting phenomenon that AP scopes are sold new at below-market price. You can always tell when they release a new run because ads start showing up on AM for new-in-box samples at around a 25% premium. Actually used versions of current models run 15% to 20% above list price. So, in that sense, they are not among the most expensive as offered to amateurs. 

 

The Planewaves are sold in amateur-oriented sizes, along with sizes that are meant for institutions. There are plenty of amateur astrophotos on Astrobin from Planewave scopes. A 20" is currently for sale on AM for about $30K. I sometimes think of them as the modern day Boller and Chivens, although I don't know of any amateurs who bought B&C scopes new. 

 

I remember being told, when I was at Kitt Peak, that there was an observatory for sale on the mountain for $1M that had built by a wealthy tech exec who decided he wanted to get a PhD in astronomy, but couldn't be bothered with trying to apply for time on an institutional scope. Technically, he bought it as an amateur. I don't think they mentioned the brand though. 

 

Chip W. 


  • deSitter and Lagrange like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics