173 replies to this topic

[dhferguson]

It's all in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?

 

I observe w/o glasses. Over the years, I've used newts, Dob w/Paracorr 2, fracs, and now a nice C8 Edge SCT; in other words various f/ratios.

 

The first eyepiece I thought was immersive was the old pre-RKE 28mm "Kellner" (actually, a Plossl) in the early 1970s sold by Edmund.

 

That was until I purchased a 20mm Nagler T2 in 1996. Wow, immersion city!

 

The jump to an Ethos 10mm from the Nagler wasn't that dramatic but I'd say it is my most immersive eyepiece now. Incidentally, the 6mm Ethos is also pretty darned good too.

 

Happy observing always,

 

Don

[RichD]

The 20mm T2 Nagler is a really special eyepiece. I have kept mine despite acquiring a 20mm APM 100*. I have too many fond memories with the nagler, and I think it's just a hair sharper than the APM.

[RichD]

The 20mm T2 Nagler is a really special eyepiece. I have kept mine despite acquiring a 20mm APM 100*. I have too many fond memories with the nagler, and I think it's just a hair sharper than the APM.

[TicoWiko]

It seems Televue has been following the thread and decided our wallets were too full for their liking :

https://www.televue...._page.asp?id=15

Word on the street is they're announcing Nagler Type 7 EPs. FLs 19, 14, 9, and 5.5mm.

[Jon Isaacs]

Ahh grass, is that that green fuzzy stuff I see on TV?    Only cement or rocks for me….

 

How about good old fashioned dirt? 

 

In the spring, in a year when it rains, the backyard weeds.. Mowed, they pass for a lawn.  

 

 

Same backyard, 

 

 

Jon

[paulh83]

Ahh grass, is that that green fuzzy stuff I see on TV?    Only cement or rocks for me….

Same for me. Grass is all gone on our property and I don't miss it either. 

[PKDfan]

When I got my lucky mitts on a pristine (hardly used!!) 20mm Type2 Nagler as one of my first eyepieces and was struck dumb with its entrapment of my minds eye visual experience; bar none the epitome of Space Walking, i very highly desired to replicate the same transcendent viewing thrill with all of my other eyepiece aquisitions.

To avoid the boring mishmash the winners that i own that come closest to the 20T2 total immersive experience are 16.5XW & 4.5Morpheus.

Mind you none ever really surpass the 20T2 view splendour.

The components of the spacewalking experience is, i believe, enough AFOV (of least @80°) and cutting sharpness and easy eye placement so providing hours of comfort.

A flawless eyepiece.

The next tier of immersion i have is equal between Naglers little brother 12mm T2 and the 9 & 6.5 Morphii with a special shoutout to the 9mm Morpheus being truly a unique viewing experience.

My other XWs are in the superclear comfortable contrast category along with the 17.3 Delos but not quite spacewalking.

The latter being new was an immediate visceral response, a cutting sharp & highly contrasted field which entirely grabbed my eye, so it might break the 80degree rule.

70degrees seems just a wee bit short most times but read on.


Now the Baader zoom is also pretty immersive when at superhigh powers --in an extended out 2X Barlow used at the short end --so getting say an effective 2.0mm focal length with long relief and nearly a 70° field is a view thats hard (if not impossible) to replicate otherwise thus pretty darn immersive.

The general consensus seems that the Plössls tiny AFOV limits its immersiveness and i agree to a certain degree and the rest i entirely disagree -IF you've got superb optics- then for instance the moons cutting clarity envelopes your awareness and its small apparent field size becomes inconsequential as your concentration is involved with processing the lights incredibly sharp and intricately painted complex colour textures (seen no where else) so that the Field Stop entirely disappears in your rapt attention to the center of the field.

When used for sweeping DSOs though thats a firm no for me and a Plössl.

4TOE with Plössl type field is only immersive if the seeing allows for it to strut.

Another factor i think bringing immersion is framing the object properly -which naturally likes a larger AFOV.


Its a delicate line as i don't enjoy 100° oculars, which probably seems foolish to some; your looking for the spacewalking effect and ignoring a huge window ??

--as i said sharpness and clarity of transmission counts greatly for immersion for me so even a poorly performing eyepiece if used in the right scope can exhibit wildly different performances, so different levels of immersion.

Eg a 25Huygens + 5X PM is more contrast optimized-- besides Plössl types - than most any other eyepiece (2elements + 2 doublets) and working at F/32.25 is a marvel of Jupiters belts whose contrast depths bloom with tremendous saturation despite a horrifically small AFOV.

You could use R.K.E. or Brandon and 5X PM too for better high power contrast power hunting kinda like building your own eyepiece.

A 3element R.K.E. + PMs 2doublets (4elements) makes a typical 7element eyepiece but with better contrast throughput and eye relief. Value priced contrast.

Brandon or Plössl 2 doublets + PM 2 doublets so the light sees only 4 pieces of glass in total.

Its a different way of building short focal lengths and optimizing eye relief and contrast efficacy which builds the ingredients of immersion as you see fit.



CSS
Lance

[Tyson M]

No question about it, the 31 Nagler and the 17mm ES 92 deg. I'd say the 12mm ES as well, but the 17mm gets more focuser time for the wide field immersion experiences.

[TayM57]

I think that Don once said that it's much easier to adapt to 100 degree eyepieces if one has a lot of experience with 82 degree eyepieces.

Maybe true, but not necessarily so for me. I started out with 100° EPs. When I built my 10" f/5.6, the very first EP I looked through on it were some of the Ethos from Steve, then I went out and bought a 14ES100, with the 9 and  5.5 following after that. Been hooked ever since, and I've been chasing the feeling of 100° EPs ever since. The Morpheus 9 comes close, but it is its own experience.

 

The ES92's, while good, have too big of a barrel that forces me to tilt my head ever so slightly, and that does take away some of the immersiveness. Also, I have moonlite focusers which don't really like big and heavy stacks like the PII+ES92s.

 

I have fond memories of globs being beautifully framed by the 100°-110° AFOV.

[weis14]

For me the two eyepieces that provide this experience are the 14mm Delos and the Apollo 11.  The 22mm Type 4 Nagler is close, but eye placement is just a bit more important, which distracts from the overall immersion.

[25585]

For me the two eyepieces that provide this experience are the 14mm Delos and the Apollo 11.  The 22mm Type 4 Nagler is close, but eye placement is just a bit more important, which distracts from the overall immersion.

Eye placement with the T7s is what will matter. My Orion LHD has easier eye placement than the 22T4, so that stayed & the Nagler went.

[RichD]

For me the two eyepieces that provide this experience are the 14mm Delos and the Apollo 11. The 22mm Type 4 Nagler is close, but eye placement is just a bit more important, which distracts from the overall immersion.

I feel the same about the 17T4. Lovely eyepiece, but eye placement is quite critical to avoid blackouts which distracts just slightly from the experience. It is minor though. And i think personal to a degree as lots of people seem to never mention it when talking about the 17T4, even less the 22.

[JeremySh]

Eye placement with the T7s is what will matter. My Orion LHD has easier eye placement than the 22T4, so that stayed & the Nagler went.

Eye placement is helped by using a chair.

[PYeomans]

The 22 Nagler T4 and the Pentax 40XL do it best for me regarding an immersive view in both my Dobs and refractors. Funny how widely individual preferences vary across this subject.

[25585]

Eye placement is helped by using a chair.

Luckily not all eyepieces need that help.

[Bener]

My most immersive eyepieces are the Nikon HW 17 & 12.5. I have the APM XWA set, too, but the Nikons are, to me, amazing eyepieces.

Edited by Bener, 27 February 2025 - 06:36 PM.

[TayM57]

Maybe true, but not necessarily so for me. I started out with 100° EPs. When I built my 10" f/5.6, the very first EP I looked through on it were some of the Ethos from Steve, then I went out and bought a 14ES100, with the 9 and  5.5 following after that. Been hooked ever since, and I've been chasing the feeling of 100° EPs ever since. The Morpheus 9 comes close, but it is its own experience.

 

The ES92's, while good, have too big of a barrel that forces me to tilt my head ever so slightly, and that does take away some of the immersiveness. Also, I have moonlite focusers which don't really like big and heavy stacks like the PII+ES92s.

 

I have fond memories of globs being beautifully framed by the 100°-110° AFOV.

Guess I better eat my words. I've been using the Morphii but it just isn't the same as using the Ethos/ES100's that I started out with, shown below. These are the EP's that I saved up hard earned $$$ for, and bought, as my very first eyepieces over the couse of I think, one, maybe two, years on what was quite literally a shoe string budget as I was a student back then. I got these EPs for $249 each, but the 9ES120 was $700 and that was a big purchase at the time. The picture below is of my actual EPs- I was very proud of that set (well, except for the 20mm).

 

 

The best EP ouf of those pictured above, was the 14mm by far. I have many life time views afforded by the 14ES100, especially mated with the 2x TV PM.

 

Now, I'm going back to the ES92's in a chase of that super wide view that the 76/82° EPs don't quite afford, focuser be ****. Globs in particular, are stunning in wide field EPs.

[ausastronomer]

My most immersive eyepieces are the Nikon HW 17 & 12.5. I have the APM XWA set, too, but the Nikons are, to me, amazing eyepieces.

First place came the 2 x Nikons and all the rest were left a long way behind, left arguing how to split up the minor prizemoney !

 

Cheers

[Far Star]

For me, the most immersive eyepieces are the Masuyamas with 85° apparent field of view, which I mainly use with my Mewlon 180C (f/12). Of these, in my opinion the 16 mm and the 20 mm are the best.

Edited by Far Star, 27 March 2025 - 04:42 PM.

[csrlice12]

I don't know why, but the 11T1 Nagler always impresses me in all my scopes.  Same with the 22 Panoptic, especially in my refractors.  

[saemark30]

My first immersive eyepiece was the Meade 14mm UWA series 4000 smoothie looking at the double cluster.

It's hard to top that experience.

Edited by saemark30, 27 March 2025 - 10:53 AM.

[25585]

First place came the 2 x Nikons and all the rest were left a long way behind, left arguing how to split up the minor prizemoney !

 

Cheers

I find my 17mm ES92 is more immersive than my Nikon HW.

[rjacks]

Pentax 16.5 mm XW 85 degree

AT 28 mm UWA

 

In my 16" f/4.5 dob, these two eyepieces combined with a Paracorr2 give me mesmerizing wide-field views. To me, that Pentax 16.5 puts out crazy good views.

[vahe]

In wide angle category I consider TV Panoptic 22 mm is my top choice for the most immersive eyepiece in my collection, The only negative is the excessive weight compared to similar eyepieces.

.

Vahe

Attached Thumbnails

• 

[Starman1]

In wide angle category I consider TV Panoptic 22 mm is my top choice for the most immersive eyepiece in my collection, The only negative is the excessive weight compared to similar eyepieces.

.

Vahe

I believe you can remove the 2" skirts, which saves weight.