Jump to content

  •  

CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.

Photo

Star party planning - learning from mistakes!

  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#1 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 01:59 PM

Last year, week of the new moon in May, we attended the Deep South Star Party at the observatory at French Camp, MS.  Dark skies and great weather.  We were so fortunate as this was the weekend where we had to crazy aurora borealis that was so active people saw it well south of us but it was the first time I'd ever seen it. Special.  My then 10 year old son and I went, borrowed a tent, carried too much gear and not enough clothes!  In the vein of learning from one's mistakes, I have a few questions, as we begin to prepare for this year's event, which is the last week in April.  We will in all likelihood be observing DSOs visually as well as some longer focal length broadband imaging.

 

As far as sleeping.  We know to take a foam blanket or air mattress.  Gotta get off the ground.  Never again!

 

But as for the tent, we knew that we had to respect others dark-adapted eyes as much as possible.  We were pretty isolated, maybe 75 feet from the nearest other observer.  Everything was red lights, except for my son's iPad and frequent need to turn on the camping lantern.  Not the Coleman type.  This is a battery powered light that has a number of features, the most offensive that it has a bright lantern setting that is too bright for star parties, apparently.  The only guy in line of sight of us was the only guy on our side that was doing visual.  He came over and told us we were too bright, we apologized and didn't use the lantern again.  The question is, is there any way to know, if I buy another tent, whether or not it can allow lights to be on inside without emitting light or making the whole tent glow from outside?

 

Another thing, heat.  It was cold by 3 or 4 o'clock.  Really cold.  Last year the event was the first week of May, this year it's the last week of April.  Not too much earlier, and certainly no warmer.   We had taken plenty of clothes for the outdoors, but something happens when you get in the tent and lay down.  Like I said, not having a blanket for a mattress and instead a couple of foam yoga mats or an inflatable will help a lot, but is there a reasonably safe, and not too bright, way to heat the space?  I use a portable propane heater in my observatory and have built a very safe base for it to prevent tipping.  Plus, it goes out if tipped or even jostled too much, anyway.  I use it to heat my warm room in the observatory when imaging but can't use it in the telescope space when doing visual, especially for dim DSOs because it's pretty bright.  Planets aren't as bad and don't require as much dark adapted vision, but I know others feel differently, and I want to be respectful of them.

 

The site has ample 110v power, every 25' or so, so maybe there's an idea for heating, maybe not.  We didn't realize we'd have access to AC before we got there.

 

Those are my main concerns/questions.  How to prevent violating others dark adaptation with devices or flashlights INSIDE the tent and how to heat the tent without a heater putting out a ton of light?

 

I think the answer to both questions is a tent that has light proof walls/roof.... but when I google it, nothing comes up except the same regular tents.   Thank you for your time!


  • SonofaSun06 likes this

#2 Razz

Razz

    Lift Off

  • -----
  • Posts: 11
  • Joined: 25 Dec 2021

Posted 25 January 2025 - 02:18 PM

Try searching for blackout tents. Maybe something like this...

 

https://www.amazon.c...4EFTlSBJ6IuPzt0



#3 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 02:26 PM

Try searching for blackout tents. Maybe something like this...

 

https://www.amazon.c...4EFTlSBJ6IuPzt0

"blackout". Of course!  I was doing "light proof" and it was just showing regular "lightweight" tents. Thanks.  Now, how to do climate control.....



#4 StargazerLuigi

StargazerLuigi

    Vanguard

  • -----
  • Posts: 2,234
  • Joined: 19 Apr 2014
  • Loc: New London Twp, Pennsylvania, USA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 02:27 PM

Do you have sleeping bags? And something to insulate you from the ground/tent floor.



#5 John Miele

John Miele

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,501
  • Joined: 29 May 2005
  • Loc: North Alabama

Posted 25 January 2025 - 02:33 PM

Hi,

 

I go to this stargaze all the time. It's my favorite!

 

There is power all over the field, but be careful you don't plug something in that would trip a breaker. You need to ask Edwin Faughn what is allowed. He runs the event and should know. Something like an electric blanket or space heater might be a problem.

 

I never use anything besides a red flashlight inside my tent. If you use laptops, or anything lese bright, you do need a blackout tent or some type of additional light shield inside the tent. 

 

I'll be there this April too.

 

cs...John


  • jmillsbss likes this

#6 Phil Perry

Phil Perry

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 474
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2024
  • Loc: Ulster County, New York

Posted 25 January 2025 - 03:20 PM

If you have a white flashlight or camping lantern (battery powered), try to find some red film (e.g., cellophane) to wrap it in to dim it and make it a less offensive red. It may take many layers to do the job. A tablet/iPad or phone might have a "night" mode, but if that doesn't dim it enough, see what viewing it through either red film or a neutral density sheet will do for it. Regarding heat, if looking for something to use inside the tent, I would avoid anything burning something. It's just too risky, even if it has a tip-over shutoff, and you need to worry about CO. That leaves only an electric heater, which may be too much power draw for the site. For an outside heater, anything where you can shield an open flame from other attendees, and reflect heat towards you, might work out. Of course, Mississippi in May doesn't sound cold enough to worry about heating...



#7 Amazed

Amazed

    Vostok 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 158
  • Joined: 13 Jul 2023
  • Loc: Michigan

Posted 25 January 2025 - 05:24 PM

I was going to suggest a plastic tarp over the tent to keep out moisture and block light. But red lighting is prefered.

We use to have an electric mattress pad. As long as it draws less than 15 amps you shoud be ok for power drain. That would be slick on a cushined pad.

Edited by Amazed, 25 January 2025 - 05:25 PM.


#8 daveb2022

daveb2022

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2022
  • Loc: San Joaquin Valley

Posted 25 January 2025 - 06:07 PM

I've always wanted a sleeping pad that if it failed on a backpack trip, it would still work. For 3 season camping, I liked Therm-a-rest self inflating pads but generally carried a 1/2 to 3/4 inch hard foam backpacking pad as backup. I also used the foam as added insulation if sleeping on snow. A typical home air mattress can be very cold if you don't have a good insulating barrier between the mattress and your skin. Even a cot can be cold w/o insulation.



#9 daveb2022

daveb2022

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2022
  • Loc: San Joaquin Valley

Posted 25 January 2025 - 06:22 PM

I was going to suggest a plastic tarp over the tent to keep out moisture and block light. But red lighting is prefered.

We use to have an electric mattress pad. As long as it draws less than 15 amps you shoud be ok for power drain. That would be slick on a cushined pad.

I'm thinking you meant 1.5 amps. But it doesn't matter, always check with who is supplying the power and make sure they are OK with what you're using is acceptable. A 1500 watt device such as a small space heater or hair dryer pulls about 12 amps and is enough to melt small gauge extension cords. 



#10 sevenofnine

sevenofnine

    Cosmos

  • *****
  • Posts: 8,419
  • Joined: 16 Apr 2016
  • Loc: Santa Rosa, California 38*N., 122*W.

Posted 25 January 2025 - 06:44 PM

Just a couple of suggestions not mentioned so far. I don't know the steps to get there but there is a way to change an iPhone to red light only. Another member laid out the bread crumbs and it worked for me. Now I can toggle between white light and red...amazing! Hopefully, someone will chime in...Always use battery operated heating sources inside a tent. Never anything that burns oxygen! You can fall asleep and never wake up, seriously. I learned from my backpacking days to lay a waterproof ground cloth under the tent. Inside, lay an insulation mat under your sleeping bag. In a down bag, you will be toasty warm even on the coldest snowing nights. Good luck! borg.gif


Edited by sevenofnine, 25 January 2025 - 06:45 PM.


#11 kas20amc02

kas20amc02

    Ranger 4

  • *****
  • Posts: 344
  • Joined: 29 Aug 2020
  • Loc: Arkansas, USA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 08:57 PM

The tent below is great.  I can set it up by myself easily and it blocks out a good bit of sunlight so you can sleep in after going to be at 4 AM.  I doubt much light would get out either, but I have never tested that.  (I astro camp in the middle of nowhere). It is about 10 pounds, so no backpacking. I have used it about a dozen times.  Still in pretty good shape.

 

Although I am sure there are good solutions to stay warm with power, it isn't needed unless you are camping in extreme cold.  I have done 20F plenty of times without power.  If you are tailgate camping (ie not backpacking) bring a thick foam mattress topper, conceivably cut to size.  A real sleeping bag helps a lot (not the ones kids buy to sleep at a friend's house).  A mummy sack is great for serious cold.  Add 10 or 20 F from the recommended rating, unless you are SURE it is correct.  (eg if the bag says good to 50F, don't use it by itself if the temp is under 65F).  Leave the window cracked so moisture does not build up.  Bring a wool blanket to put on top if needed.  You won't need anything else if you do these things.

 

 

Hope this helps,
Karl

 

 

 

https://www.coleman....ctionPoint=Show



#12 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 10:01 PM

Thanks guys. These are all fine ideas. Some solutions I'd tht of, others to consider. Thank you!

#13 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 25 January 2025 - 10:03 PM

Hi,

I go to this stargaze all the time. It's my favorite!

There is power all over the field, but be careful you don't plug something in that would trip a breaker. You need to ask Edwin Faughn what is allowed. He runs the event and should know. Something like an electric blanket or space heater might be a problem.

I never use anything besides a red flashlight inside my tent. If you use laptops, or anything lese bright, you do need a blackout tent or some type of additional light shield inside the tent.

I'll be there this April too.

cs...John


I'll def be there Friday night and perhaps Thursday, weather permitting. We had a lot of fun last year. Not much star stuff but the aurora was a once in a lifetime for the south. I know you heard all the grown men giddy as little school girls! It was fun! Cold, especially for Mississippi, but fun cold!
  • John Miele likes this

#14 astrohamp

astrohamp

    Surveyor 1

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,845
  • Joined: 01 Jan 2020
  • Loc: Massachusetts, Vermont way up north sometimes

Posted 25 January 2025 - 10:21 PM

Search also for "dark tent" as there are several that claim to be.  As you found out, don't even think about turning on ANY non red light in most any tent.  They will glow and you will be scrutinized accordingly.

 

To sleep with:
I start by putting 2'x2' foam puzzle squares under my tent to both protect the floor material and create a thermal break to the ground.  Much easier on the knees too.

From there an insulating 4" thick air mattress I believe R7.

Then one to several layers of fleece blankets or both layers of a rectangular sleeping bag turned inside out if cotton. Mostly use an older cotton one because in feels good and is not slippery, or one of several synthetic I have as well. 

Then on top of all that a large rectangular sleeping bag which I will sleep in.

Inside of that either second rectangular, or mummy bag if it will be cold.

Inside of that a rectangular travel sheet or in the past a DIY liner sew up made with bed linen.

I also bring one or two fleece blankets to throw over the whole deal, or use as adjustment layers if it warms a bit.

Wear loose comfortable long sleeves and when cold I put thin fleece gloves on for when I put a hand or arm out for some reason through the night.

 

The message is DO NOT put a propane heater in your FLAMABLE tent.  Not only can and will it burn down the house, it will generate enough moisture to have water dripping on you from exhaust condensation.

 

I have been using a '4 man' tent for some years now just for myself.  Found a quonset style I like that opens at both ends.  Two vestibules if needed for damp, wet, storage, wind load protection.  Find something that one person can set up if need be.

 

Do not expect host facility to supply AC for other then astro tech which includes battery charging during the day.  There are 12 volt electric blankets out there just do the math.  120 watts burns 10 amps so a 100Ah battery could last the night.  Tea and hot chocolate are your friends.  Use the propane to fire up a stove to make some.

 

Arctic gear clothing including boots, hats, mits, jump suit, under garments, may seem out of place although you said you were cold.  

 

Good luck and enjoy the dark skies.


  • jmillsbss likes this

#15 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 26 January 2025 - 12:18 AM

Ok. I get it. No active warming devices, i.e. heat sources, be they has or electric. I never was sure about that, but thanks anyway. The best way to go sounds like layers, blankets and ground covering. I spent a while online this afternoon and there's no shortage of black out light blocking tents. Just not something I ever thought about before the 6am sun woke us after a long cold night last year. Looking for a couple of foam mats for ground cover and inflatable mattresses. And lota of covers! Thanks for all the helpful comments!

#16 John Miele

John Miele

    Fly Me to the Moon

  • *****
  • Posts: 6,501
  • Joined: 29 May 2005
  • Loc: North Alabama

Posted 26 January 2025 - 09:38 AM

I'll def be there Friday night and perhaps Thursday, weather permitting. We had a lot of fun last year. Not much star stuff but the aurora was a once in a lifetime for the south. I know you heard all the grown men giddy as little school girls! It was fun! Cold, especially for Mississippi, but fun cold!

I'm sure I was one of the giddy ones...lol! Next to the total solar eclipses we recently had , the aurora that night was the most amazing sky phenomenon I ever saw! I must have said Holy Smokes or OMG at least a dozen times!

 

I plan to be there Wed thru Sunday unless it's a pouring rain forecast the whole time. 

 

cs...John


  • jmillsbss likes this

#17 rjacks

rjacks

    Viking 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Joined: 28 Mar 2021
  • Loc: Athens, GA

Posted 26 January 2025 - 11:45 AM

A sleeping pad will keep you warmer, as well a reflective space blanket on the tent floor to reflect your radiative heat. But, if you are having trouble staying warm in Mississippi in May - your sleeping bags are inadequate. Sleeping bags have temperature ratings, and you need sleeping bags rated to a much lower temperature. Backpackers and climbers routinely sleep on snow in sub-freezing temperatures without problem, the difference is ground pads and good sleeping bags. 

 

A dim headlamp is usually sufficient for reading and finding things in a tent. No need for a bright lantern. 

 

Camping, like astronomy, is a learned art! Trial and error, unfortunately. Have fun and stay warm under dark clear skies. 


  • bunyon and jmillsbss like this

#18 daveb2022

daveb2022

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2022
  • Loc: San Joaquin Valley

Posted 26 January 2025 - 12:46 PM

Ok. I get it. No active warming devices, i.e. heat sources, be they has or electric. I never was sure about that, but thanks anyway. The best way to go sounds like layers, blankets and ground covering. I spent a while online this afternoon and there's no shortage of black out light blocking tents. Just not something I ever thought about before the 6am sun woke us after a long cold night last year. Looking for a couple of foam mats for ground cover and inflatable mattresses. And lota of covers! Thanks for all the helpful comments!

Actually they make USB powered heating blankets/pads as well as 12v models that work quite well.

 

usb sleeping pad.jpg

 

But I only use electric heated items as additional heat. They are no different than a battery powered vest or jacket. I'd think a 50,000mah USB battery pack would operate one, but you would have to check or test what they pull. Each sleeping pad, vest or blanket may pull the battery down over the coarse of the night at different rates. My USB vest lasts about 4 hours on the medium setting using a 10,000mah 5v lithium USB battery. If you do purchase a heated device like these, you're supposed follow the manufactures guidelines...some say never sleep with them on. YMMV. Also make sure the battery voltage (generally a 5v or 7.2 volt) is the correct for the item. I just bought some heated sweat pants. I bought a 20,000 mah 5v battery, and the setting on high took the battery to zero in about 4 hours. Very effective under my snowmobile suit. But again it says don't sleep in them. Yet a heated sleeping pad is designed to lay on and would be a good choice for additional heat. Just don't expect it to be there. Nothing worse than being caught in the cold with no way to warm up.

 

 

Kind of a funny incident, but I had a buddy show up for a camping astronomy adventure with a trunk full of blankets, foam pads and a variety of giant standard camping equipment. I told him if we bring that, I'd have no room for a scope. He did insist on his little buddy propane heater which he tried to use in his tent no matter how much I protested. So, that night I hear click, click, click and all of a sudden his whole tent lit up with a poof. I couldn't stop laughing. He didn't get burned but it sure was funny. He got the little heater going, and that night kicked the heater, which ended up melting hole in the tent. Not a good night.

 

I generally pack around my scope(s) I'm taking.


Edited by daveb2022, 26 January 2025 - 12:48 PM.


#19 Phil Perry

Phil Perry

    Messenger

  • -----
  • Posts: 474
  • Joined: 13 Aug 2024
  • Loc: Ulster County, New York

Posted 26 January 2025 - 12:55 PM

He did insist on his little buddy propane heater which he tried to use in his tent no matter how much I protested. So, that night I hear click, click, click and all of a sudden his whole tent lit up with a poof. I couldn't stop laughing. He didn't get burned but it sure was funny. He got the little heater going, and that night kicked the heater, which ended up melting hole in the tent. Not a good night.

Ah, another Darwin Award candidate! Don't pitch your tent too close to his...
 


  • jmillsbss and daveb2022 like this

#20 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 26 January 2025 - 02:43 PM

Actually they make USB powered heating blankets/pads as well as 12v models that work quite well.

 

attachicon.gif usb sleeping pad.jpg

 

But I only use electric heated items as additional heat. They are no different than a battery powered vest or jacket. I'd think a 50,000mah USB battery pack would operate one, but you would have to check or test what they pull. Each sleeping pad, vest or blanket may pull the battery down over the coarse of the night at different rates. My USB vest lasts about 4 hours on the medium setting using a 10,000mah 5v lithium USB battery. If you do purchase a heated device like these, you're supposed follow the manufactures guidelines...some say never sleep with them on. YMMV. Also make sure the battery voltage (generally a 5v or 7.2 volt) is the correct for the item. I just bought some heated sweat pants. I bought a 20,000 mah 5v battery, and the setting on high took the battery to zero in about 4 hours. Very effective under my snowmobile suit. But again it says don't sleep in them. Yet a heated sleeping pad is designed to lay on and would be a good choice for additional heat. Just don't expect it to be there. Nothing worse than being caught in the cold with no way to warm up.

 

 

Kind of a funny incident, but I had a buddy show up for a camping astronomy adventure with a trunk full of blankets, foam pads and a variety of giant standard camping equipment. I told him if we bring that, I'd have no room for a scope. He did insist on his little buddy propane heater which he tried to use in his tent no matter how much I protested. So, that night I hear click, click, click and all of a sudden his whole tent lit up with a poof. I couldn't stop laughing. He didn't get burned but it sure was funny. He got the little heater going, and that night kicked the heater, which ended up melting hole in the tent. Not a good night.

 

I generally pack around my scope(s) I'm taking.

You have to say whether he did it again or just layered up better the next time!



#21 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 26 January 2025 - 02:49 PM

A sleeping pad will keep you warmer, as well a reflective space blanket on the tent floor to reflect your radiative heat. But, if you are having trouble staying warm in Mississippi in May - your sleeping bags are inadequate. Sleeping bags have temperature ratings, and you need sleeping bags rated to a much lower temperature. Backpackers and climbers routinely sleep on snow in sub-freezing temperatures without problem, the difference is ground pads and good sleeping bags. 

 

A dim headlamp is usually sufficient for reading and finding things in a tent. No need for a bright lantern. 

 

Camping, like astronomy, is a learned art! Trial and error, unfortunately. Have fun and stay warm under dark clear skies. 

Well it was the first time I'd been camping since I was probably 8 or 9 with the boy scout troop. Seems like that was in July. So no reference point for early spring.  There was probably a lot of things we sis that were wrong, thus, this posted question on the subject.  Thanks for your help!



#22 daveb2022

daveb2022

    Apollo

  • -----
  • Posts: 1,377
  • Joined: 13 Jun 2022
  • Loc: San Joaquin Valley

Posted 26 January 2025 - 03:51 PM

You have to say whether he did it again or just layered up better the next time!

No he still uses that heater. It is set under the fly in the covered vestibule instead of the living section. A good sleeping bag fell on deaf ears but told em no haybell sized foam pads. He did purchase a cheap foam sleeping pad. It does double as some extra insulation to use in your camping chair...duel purpose. I did suggest a smoke and CO alarm. I have a Sportsmobile that has a diesel heater. Sometimes I feel guilty looking out of my van's windows at someone freezing in 15 degree weather, as I sit in a 75 degree climate with gym shorts on....sometimes. 


  • jmillsbss likes this

#23 kasprowy

kasprowy

    Apollo

  • *****
  • Posts: 1,001
  • Joined: 02 Sep 2021
  • Loc: Chicago

Posted 26 January 2025 - 03:55 PM

My friends and I have been winter camping every January for years, either Northern Illinois or shores of Lake Erie in Ohio. Get a 0 deg F sleeping bag, quilts under and above on a cot. Make sure your feet stay warm, that's key, as if they are cold, you will never fall asleep. Wear a winter hat so only your face is exposed.

#24 jmillsbss

jmillsbss

    Mercury-Atlas

  • *****
  • topic starter
  • Posts: 2,601
  • Joined: 03 Dec 2018
  • Loc: North Mississippi, USA

Posted 26 January 2025 - 07:00 PM

My friends and I have been winter camping every January for years, either Northern Illinois or shores of Lake Erie in Ohio. Get a 0 deg F sleeping bag, quilts under and above on a cot. Make sure your feet stay warm, that's key, as if they are cold, you will never fall asleep. Wear a winter hat so only your face is exposed.

Yeah sounds like the first thing is to get something between you and the cold ground. Something more than another blanket. Either space with a cot or a firm, foam pad, just not relying on thin blankets or the floor of the tent!  I have located a queen size air mattress. That should help.



#25 darkcloud

darkcloud

    Vostok 1

  • *****
  • Posts: 158
  • Joined: 04 Feb 2006
  • Loc: Central NC

Posted 26 January 2025 - 07:54 PM

Yeah sounds like the first thing is to get something between you and the cold ground. Something more than another blanket. Either space with a cot or a firm, foam pad, just not relying on thin blankets or the floor of the tent!  I have located a queen size air mattress. That should help.

Sleeping on an air mattress is as cold as sleeping directly on the ground.  They provide cushion, but no insulation.  If you use one, you will need to put insulation between you and the mattress


  • stevew, PYeomans and daveb2022 like this


CNers have asked about a donation box for Cloudy Nights over the years, so here you go. Donation is not required by any means, so please enjoy your stay.


Recent Topics






Cloudy Nights LLC
Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics