115 replies to this topic

[Arkade]

Hi
I was wondering if anyone has an 80mm apo and also a 100mm and if there is a big, noticable difference.

( I have looked and on numerous stores, they have all dropped the price on this skywatcher. Does this usually happen? Anyone know why? As this happened with starsense a few months ago. It was £200 for a few weeks and now it is back to £280)

I have a 80/560mm apo from starfield and have just seen Skywatcher Evostar 100 ED DS Pro on sale with a focal reducer, 2 inch diagonal, rings and mounting plate, a finderscope, 28mm eyepiece, reduced from £945 ($1179 us dollars) to £729 ($910 usd)

This is a large scope 900mm fl, f9 but has a focal reducer also.

I have been wanting a new scope, was thinking a 150mm achro, but now this has come up at around the same price.

Would you guys get a 100mm if you had an 80mm? Also, side question, is a 100mm apo better than a 150mm achro ( im guessing no as for dso, the achro wins)

Thank you everyone

Edited by Arkade, 25 January 2025 - 09:41 PM.

[drd715]

The Evostar 100ed ds pro is a good refractor. Well color corrected.  At F-9 and 900mm it is an excellent visual use telescope. The optics are excellent and use high quality ED glass. The focuser mechanism is not the best to  use if you are planning on using this scope for imagining.   It does best on planets and moon or brighter dso's. A similar scope, But at F-11 is the TS-102ED or it's Altair cousin.   Stepping up from an 80mm I think I would consider the generic 115EDT  (Astronomics, or one of its cousins).  The 115EDT has been around long enough that you could find a pre-owned specimen at a good savings.  The 115EDT is about the same FL as the Evostar, but it is a triplet and has a better focuser.   If you are primarily a visual observer I would stick with a high end glass doublet probably the AT-125EDL  for better resolution and brighter image. 

[rexowner]

Short answer: no, you won't see anything vastly different.

[SeattleScott]

It would be a noticeable, but not dramatic improvement.

It’s really kind of subjective.

Personally if I had an 80mm, I would strongly consider getting the 100mm (and selling the 80mm). You know, unless you need that focal length for AP or something.

[Arkade]

It would be a noticeable, but not dramatic improvement.

It’s really kind of subjective.

Personally if I had an 80mm, I would strongly consider getting the 100mm (and selling the 80mm). You know, unless you need that focal length for AP or something.

True, I am fairly new to this hobby so probably better to just use my 80mm apo along with my 130/650 newt as i havent even.used them much due to unforseen circumstances...you saved me a lot of money, thanks

[jupiter122]

Honestly, I don’t think these sort of “is it worth it“ kind of questions can be meaningfully answered. It really depends on a host of factors unique to you, such as your budget, what you plan to be looking at, your preferences and sensitivity to higher prices, and your own eyes (others might see a difference, you may not).  Some people have really keen vision and have the budget and inclination to spend more just to eke out a tiny bit more performance, others not so much. 

 

Tim

[Redbetter]

The difference from 80 to 100mm is 0.48 magnitude, which I consider a decent incremental improvement, particularly for small aperture, moving up to medium aperture.  80mm is the starting point for reasonable planetary detail, while 100mm will show noticeably more detail.   

[Arkade]

Honestly, I don’t think these sort of “is it worth it“ kind of questions can be meaningfully answered. It really depends on a host of factors unique to you, such as your budget, what you plan to be looking at, your preferences and sensitivity to higher prices, and your own eyes (others might see a difference, you may not). Some people have really keen vision and have the budget and inclination to spend more just to eke out a tiny bit more performance, others not so much.

Tim

True. I feel like im spending more time wanting to upgrade my equipment even though i have barely used it as i feel i need more aperture than actually using my equipment.

I think it is because I read people saying 80mm apo is not enough aperture. Then 130/650 newt isnt wont show as much as an 8 inch dob.

[jupiter122]

True. I feel like im spending more time wanting to upgrade my equipment even though i have barely used it as i feel i need more aperture than actually using my equipment.

I think it is because I read people saying 80mm apo is not enough aperture. Then 130/650 newt isnt wont show as much as an 8 inch dob.

I know the feeling. 

[Arkade]

I know the feeling.

Maybe we should start aperture anon meetings lol

[jupiter122]

Indeed. 

[Jethro7]

Hi
I was wondering if anyone has an 80mm apo and also a 100mm and if there is a big, noticable difference.

( I have looked and on numerous stores, they have all dropped the price on this skywatcher. Does this usually happen? Anyone know why? As this happened with starsense a few months ago. It was £200 for a few weeks and now it is back to £280)

I have a 80/560mm apo from starfield and have just seen Skywatcher Evostar 100 ED DS Pro on sale with a focal reducer, 2 inch diagonal, rings and mounting plate, a finderscope, 28mm eyepiece, reduced from £945 ($1179 us dollars) to £729 ($910 usd)

This is a large scope 900mm fl, f9 but has a focal reducer also.

I have been wanting a new scope, was thinking a 150mm achro, but now this has come up at around the same price.

Would you guys get a 100mm if you had an 80mm? Also, side question, is a 100mm apo better than a 150mm achro ( im guessing no as for dso, the achro wins)

Thank you everyone

Hello Arkade,

I really enjoy using my 76mm APO. These are fun little scopes and one can see quite a bit with these smaller apertured scopes with practice. With that being said. It sounds like you are having a "I want to see more" thing going on. If this is the case, you might want to consider a 200mm or even better, a 250mm Dob that has enough aperture to go pretty deep for those DSO's. You are in the same price point. Plus you will be able to run up the magnification on the Moon and bright planets. However, It is really nice to have a small refractor around that will compliment the larger Dob. I enjoy setting up both fracs and Dobs together on my viewing sessions, to enjoy the entirely different viewing experiences provided by these scopes. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

 

P.S. Choosing between a 100mm ED and a 150mm Achro. I would choose the 100mm ED.  

Edited by Jethro7, 25 January 2025 - 11:34 PM.

[Arkade]

Hello Arkade,
I really enjoy using my 76mm APO. These are fun little scopes and one can see quite a bit with these smaller apertured scopes with practice. With that being said. It sounds like you are having a "I want to see more" thing going on. If this is the case, you might want to consider a 200mm or even better, a 250mm Dob that has enough aperture to go pretty deep for those DSO's. You are in the same price point. Plus you will be able to run up the magnification on the Moon and bright planets. However, It is really nice to have a small refractor around that will compliment the larger Dob. I enjoy setting up both fracs and Dobs together on my viewing sessions, to enjoy the entirely different viewing experiences provided by these scopes.

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

I am starting to think the cheapest and best idea is just getting an 8 or 10 inch dob. As other options end up near a thousand pound and would require new mount.

I have been going back and fourth, a 150 achro, a bigger apo, just keep changing my mind.

I agree, a dob. I think i should be sensible and patient. Enjoy my 80mm apo, get most out of my 130/650 newt and upgrade once i really need to

[Arkade]

Hello Arkade,
I really enjoy using my 76mm APO. These are fun little scopes and one can see quite a bit with these smaller apertured scopes with practice. With that being said. It sounds like you are having a "I want to see more" thing going on. If this is the case, you might want to consider a 200mm or even better, a 250mm Dob that has enough aperture to go pretty deep for those DSO's. You are in the same price point. Plus you will be able to run up the magnification on the Moon and bright planets. However, It is really nice to have a small refractor around that will compliment the larger Dob. I enjoy setting up both fracs and Dobs together on my viewing sessions, to enjoy the entirely different viewing experiences provided by these scopes.

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

P.S. Choosing between a 100mm ED and a 150mm Achro. I would choose the 100mm ED.

Thanks...a 100mm apo you say...sounds good as a dob is cheaper and bigger than a 150 achro

[SoCalPaul]

As others have well said, it depends on a lot of factors including who you are, what you observe, where you observe, etc.

 

In my experience, there was a significant difference when observing dimmer DSOs from darker sites- easier to spot, better contrast and more detail.

 

One of my favorite observing nights ever was a Messier Marathon with a Tak FC100 doublet. That scope delivered outstanding contrast, which made even challenging objects not a problem to find and observe.

 

But that doesn't really mean squat with regard to your decision. :-)

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[Arkade]

As others have well said, it depends on a lot of factors including who you are, what you observe, where you observe, etc.

In my experience, there was a significant difference when observing dimmer DSOs from darker sites- easier to spot, better contrast and more detail.

One of my favorite observing nights ever was a Messier Marathon with a Tak FC100 doublet. That scope delivered outstanding contrast, which made even challenging objects not a problem to find and observe.

But that doesn't really mean squat with regard to your decision. :-)

Clear skies,
Paul

Im in a highly polluted london sky so skys are not great so not much to see with 80mm apo, 130mm newt, but also i havent been stargazing long so lack experience.

I should beable to find the messier catalogue

[Jethro7]

I am starting to think the cheapest and best idea is just getting an 8 or 10 inch dob. As other options end up near a thousand pound and would require new mount.

I have been going back and fourth, a 150 achro, a bigger apo, just keep changing my mind.

I agree, a dob. I think i should be sensible and patient. Enjoy my 80mm apo, get most out of my 130/650 newt and upgrade once i really need to

 

Thanks...a 100mm apo you say...sounds good as a dob is cheaper and bigger than a 150 achro

Hello Arkade,

A Dob, comes with a base. An 8" Dob is easy to transport however 10" Dob is Dob is still quite portable. Aperture wins for DSO's and you are already familiar with the collimation routine of a Newt. As I posted, there is a place for both smaller refractors and a larger Dobs. I prefer to view many things with my refractors and other things with a Dob that are out of reach of the refractors. 

 

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Edited by Jethro7, 25 January 2025 - 11:56 PM.

[Arkade]

The difference between 80mm and 100mm is very noticeable, especially when it comes to resolving planetary detail.

With that said, I've been observing for over 40 years and my two most used scopes are a 102ED f/11 and a 63mm Zeiss. You can spend the rest of your life with an 80mm scope and not run out of things to see.

The aperture escalator only stops when you're broke or run out of room. Your scopes will never be big enough and you will never fully appreciate what you have. The same thing happens with eyepieces.

The best thing you can do is only look at cloudy nights when you have a specific question. If you hang out here, you'll start to care more about the equipment than what you see with it

Thank you. That is very helpful advice from someone as yourself who has a lot of experience.
Best advice ive recieved, thanks

[Arkade]

Hello Arkade,
A Dob, comes with a base. An 8" Dob is easy to transport however 10" Dob is Dob is still quite portable. Aperture wins for DSO's and you are already familiar with the collimation routine of a Newt. As I posted, there is a place for both smaller refractors and a larger Dobs. I prefer to view many things with my refractors and other things with a Dob that are out of reach of the refractors.

HAPPY SKIES AND KEEP LOOKING UP Jethro

Thank you

[SoCalPaul]

FWIW...

 

I see that others above have suggested switching to a larger dob.

 

Different types of scopes have different types of appeal.

 

Some folks pride themselves on finding DSOs with relatively smaller apertures, e.g. my comment above about the Messier Marathon. There is a satisfaction to it.

 

But you aren't going to see much detail in anything but the brighter DSOs without aperture.

 

My current instrument of choice for light-polluted Los Angeles skies is a C11 on a motorized GoTo mount.

 

But speaking of finding satisfaction in observing, I'm working on an Astronomical League certificate, and so I am not permitted to use GoTo. Reverting to star-hopping has been a ton of fun.

 

If there are any astronomy clubs or groups nearby, a night spent with them is worth a thousand words here in CN.

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[SoCalPaul]

At the risk of straying far afield here, I'd like to mention while we are on the topic of observing DSOs with smaller apertures, Jay Freeman logged the Herschel 400 with a 55mm scope:

 

http://www.jayreynol...RRSaga.text.pdf

 

Clear skies,

Paul

[Inkie]

True. I feel like im spending more time wanting to upgrade my equipment even though i have barely used it as i feel i need more aperture than actually using my equipment.

I think it is because I read people saying 80mm apo is not enough aperture. Then 130/650 newt isnt wont show as much as an 8 inch dob.

I think we have saved you from yourself!  I'm not trying to be blunt or unkind, not at all, but your poste  quoted and the one previous to that indicate that you don't really know where you're at or where you're going. Please, be patient, use what you have, try to stifle the strong desire for 'magic', which doesn't exist...not in this hobby...and come at another purchase from the position of real power...knowledge. But do that later...after the knowledge comes to you.

 

If you'd like yet another more direct reply to your first post, you probably will not notice a lot. Not as you are.  In two/five years, as a seasoned observer, you're likely to notice an improvement just in resolving power, meaning some objects are brighter, and you can see dimmer ones beyond the reach of your 80 mm.  So, the advice by someone earlier to sell the 80 if it never does anything for you and to get a somewhat larger aperture, good quality though, is sound.  But, so is the advice to go even bigger.  Our hosts sell a very nice AT115 EDT scope that is a substantial jump from what you have. They bring in a new batch every year or so, so if it takes a year for you to figure out where you're headed, it may be the place you need to go to.  However, many/most of us soon realize what what we really crave is a large aperture that reaches ddddeeeeeeeeeeppppp into outer space, and that usually means an 8-12" Dobsonian.  Further, so many of us have one or two refractors AND a Dobsonian it isn't even funny...it's a great business for suppliers.  We do that because the combination provides us with a deep, bright reach, albeit with commercially adequate quality in the Dob, but we also have that pristine refractor, smaller, more exquisite, for the fine views they afford us, especially of clusters and planets, plus the moon. 

 

My main point, in case it isn't jumping out, is that this all takes time and understanding.  We all buy and sell any number of scopes, each of us still dreaming of the magic.  There is no magic.  There's a lot of mystery, and some of it is accessible with fine scopes, but which one you should buy isn't clear to you. Not yet. 

[SeattleScott]

A 4" Apo won't go any deeper than a 5" Newt. It might be a touch sharper on planets. It will be lower maintenance. But it won't be much different on DSO. 

 

A much bigger change would be an 8" Dob. That would be more of a dramatic difference. 

[Arkade]

I think we have saved you from yourself! I'm not trying to be blunt or unkind, not at all, but your poste quoted and the one previous to that indicate that you don't really know where you're at or where you're going. Please, be patient, use what you have, try to stifle the strong desire for 'magic', which doesn't exist...not in this hobby...and come at another purchase from the position of real power...knowledge. But do that later...after the knowledge comes to you.

If you'd like yet another more direct reply to your first post, you probably will not notice a lot. Not as you are. In two/five years, as a seasoned observer, you're likely to notice an improvement just in resolving power, meaning some objects are brighter, and you can see dimmer ones beyond the reach of your 80 mm. So, the advice by someone earlier to sell the 80 if it never does anything for you and to get a somewhat larger aperture, good quality though, is sound. But, so is the advice to go even bigger. Our hosts sell a very nice AT115 EDT scope that is a substantial jump from what you have. They bring in a new batch every year or so, so if it takes a year for you to figure out where you're headed, it may be the place you need to go to. However, many/most of us soon realize what what we really crave is a large aperture that reaches ddddeeeeeeeeeeppppp into outer space, and that usually means an 8-12" Dobsonian. Further, so many of us have one or two refractors AND a Dobsonian it isn't even funny...it's a great business for suppliers. We do that because the combination provides us with a deep, bright reach, albeit with commercially adequate quality in the Dob, but we also have that pristine refractor, smaller, more exquisite, for the fine views they afford us, especially of clusters and planets, plus the moon.

My main point, in case it isn't jumping out, is that this all takes time and understanding. We all buy and sell any number of scopes, each of us still dreaming of the magic. There is no magic. There's a lot of mystery, and some of it is accessible with fine scopes, but which one you should buy isn't clear to you. Not yet.

Thank you for taking the time to be very honest. All I can say is that I agree with you and appreciate your words as they were needed.

[Arkade]

A 4" Apo won't go any deeper than a 5" Newt. It might be a touch sharper on planets. It will be lower maintenance. But it won't be much different on DSO.

A much bigger change would be an 8" Dob. That would be more of a dramatic difference.

Yes, i think so too. I have more than plenty at the moment, more than enough equipment.