65 replies to this topic

[alg460]

I am no beginner but never a hardcore enthusiast. In 40 years I have never seen Mars as anything more than a feature-less orange blob. I've had countless scopes. Ten inch SCT - just a blob. Eight inch Dob - Yawn. Six inch Mak - Same crap different day. Four inch APO - waste of money. Last night, with a 96mm FCD1 doublet refractor, I easily observed a shadow transit on Jupiter and caught fleeting glimpses of the offending moon. Next I swung over to Mars. Poke out my eyes man - Yawn again!  Whats the trick on Mars. Before I die I want to see something on Mars. Tell me what to buy.

[MrsM75]

Hi, you should wait for Mars Opposition. And what help me is magnifications, lots of magnifications.

 

I only use cheap scopes, with Mars I use 317x magnification on it, I have no problem see Mars Albedo spots, that big dark spots on Mars, they call it Albedo. 

And this is "visually" only. But I see it.

 

2 years ago, end of year 2022 when Mars Opposition (it a closer Opposition than this year), I was able to see Mars Albedo even with my small Mak.

Edited by MrsM75, 26 January 2025 - 07:45 PM.

[sevenofnine]

More luck than equipment IMO. Sand storms rage on Mars for a very long time so the surface is often obscured. No matter what scope you have you aren't going to see anything. Then when the Gods smile, you will get mottled dark shading and a tiny sliver of an ice cap. That's been it in my experience. Your 96mm Apo should be enough scope...keep trying 

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

Planetary visual is about patience and turbulence.
Once your telescope is collimated and cooled down, you sit next to the tube, stick your eye to the eyepiece and then you wait.
Depending on where you live and the night, you may have to wait for seconds, minutes or hours before our atmosphere gives you a few seconds of glorious seeing.
All the crappy turbulence comes to halt and you see plenty of tiny details on Mars. It’s impressive ! Then it goes back to its usual boiling view…
A zoom eyepiece helps a lot for planetary, you can adjust magnification on the fly according to conditions.

Edited by Sebastian_Sajaroff, 26 January 2025 - 08:08 PM.

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

A month ago, had an exceptional night where I could discern the North polar cap, Syrtis Major, Acidalia and Hellas on my 3" at 110x.
Syrtis Major and the polar cap are visible even on mediocre nights, the rest is really hard on my telescope.

[brentwood]

I have had an old Starliner 12" F5 Newt for a long time. On deep sky it is awesome! Spectacular I say, but on planets, not so much. I have tried many times on the usual suspects including Mars. All I ever get are quivering blobs, Saturn has rings, Jupiter has bands and a red splodge , sometimes, Mars, rarely may show the hint of being a bit white on one end!  But then a few years ago, we had forest fires. The sky was murky, just mag 3 and brighter were visible, but those visible looked very steady no twinkling . Mars was quite high, could it be worth it?  I dragged it out , tried a 12.6 mm, wow! what!  then the 6mm ,  wow!  rock steady , polar cap , Syrtis Major,  so then in went the 4mm. Perfect! Round disc, sharp!  So after many years , I found my mirror was a good one and gave excellent results under perfect but dim seeing!  Saturn and Jupiter were also in the sky, This is going to be great. But no! Both were below our house roof!   **** blast! 

[TOMDEY]

Good conditions, good scope, good technique. Difficult subjects are difficult to capture. Alas... that's on our side of the fence.     Tom

[bobzeq25]

I am no beginner but never a hardcore enthusiast. In 40 years I have never seen Mars as anything more than a feature-less orange blob. I've had countless scopes. Ten inch SCT - just a blob. Eight inch Dob - Yawn. Six inch Mak - Same crap different day. Four inch APO - waste of money. Last night, with a 96mm FCD1 doublet refractor, I easily observed a shadow transit on Jupiter and caught fleeting glimpses of the offending moon. Next I swung over to Mars. Poke out my eyes man - Yawn again!  Whats the trick on Mars. Before I die I want to see something on Mars. Tell me what to buy.

Your problem is your eye. The trick to seeing detail on mars is the same trick as is used on all astronomy, by amateurs and professionals alike. Instead of your lousy eye, image with a camera.

MUCH better. <smile>

As far as what to buy, this camera will be fine. $300, ie dirt cheap. I shot the image of Mars at the end of this with something even less capable, a 130mm refractor, and very poor skills. Not kidding. Really, not kidding. Click on it for a better version, and details.

https://www.zwoastro...t/zwo-asi678mc/

Edited by bobzeq25, 26 January 2025 - 09:02 PM.

[JimMo]

I have had good views in my old 8" SCT back when it was closest around the turn of the century and have had great views in my 14.5" dob on a nice of very good, but not great seeing. The mirror in that scope is exceptional and does really well on DSO, too. This was using a 10mm Delos at 185x.

[dnayakan]

Mars is an uncooperative subject. 

 

1) Oppositions happen roughly every 2 years (a little less) - so viewing opportunities at decent sizes are fewer.

 

2) It is a small planet. There are computer simulations that suggest that Jupiter was drifting inwards and thus accreted matter that could otherwise have made Mars bigger. Why didn’t Jupiter drift further inwards? Apparently, the other large planet Saturn and gravitational interactions slowed Jupiter and held it at its current position. 

 

3) Even that small size varies a great deal (even at opposition) across a period of about 16 years - perihelion oppositions (when the distance between Mars and Earth are smallest) can have Mars be as large as 25 arc seconds - the next one is 2035, although you will have reasonable sizes in 2033 and 2037. This year’s aphelic opposition has Mars at about 14 arc seconds. Other planets also vary in apparent size across years but they are much further away and their sizes do not vary as greatly because the angular size as a function of distance is asymptotic - think of it as an object at infinity will look about the same size at infinity +/- some distance x.

 

4) Mars is a low value contrast object - the colors of blue and orange are complementary and helps, but the objects are all close in value and that makes things difficult.

 

5) Long lasting global dust storms can wipe out any remaining contrast.

 

So, patience and luck and an appetite for disappointment are necessary for the red planet. 

[TayM57]

Ive always been able to see the dark areas of Mars and the ice cap at or near times of opposition. Also, wait until Mars is high in the sky. Usually, this is around mightnight-1AM right now.

[areyoukiddingme]

Good seeing is critical, lack of dust storms, Mars being high in the sky, and a good amount of magnification.

 

Even in a small refractor, the ice caps are very high contrast and easily made out. After that, some surface detail starts to pop out.

 

Then it's the canals, of course.

[therealdmt]

First, wait until Mars is bright, meaning near opposition (opposite to the Sun to us, so closest to us), such as now. Opposition occurs about every 26 months (a little over every two years). However, not all oppositions are equal (some are closer than others, and during some, the surface may be obscured by dust. Also, the polar cap visible might have more or less ice showing). The current opposition is not favorable, and, regrettably, the next one is worse. On the positive side, it starts getting better from there, with each successive opposition improving until things max out again during the 2037 opposition. So, as they say with a tough humor in the planetary science community, "Eat your veggies." Nevertheless, in the meantime, we work with what we’ve got, and the 2033 opposition will already be excellent.

If your seeing is decent, you should see a light pinkish-red or tawny planet with darker reddish-brown details (these brightness differences being referred to as albedo features), and maybe a bright white ice cap, and maybe softer white areas of cloud, haze, w/ maybe ice underneath, etc., especially by the poles (polar hood), but possible elsewhere.

If your seeing typically isn’t good around the season of an opposition, consider going to an area with typically excellent seeing (and low cloudiness) during that season. This may involve going south (if you live in the northern mid latitudes), and (aside from immediate glare) light pollution isn’t a factor, so you could easily do it as a vacation to an area a family member would enjoy for other reasons too. Could be fun

Okay, so about those albedo features, unless you have a large scope and great seeing (which I don’t, so I’m not going to talk about that), besides the ice caps, that’s most of what you’re going to see. But the interesting thing is that those albedo features (the light and dark areas) correspond to actual features on the surface of Mars. With its 24.6 hour day, Mars rotates at a slightly different rate than Earth does, so if you view night to night at the same time, you’ll see those features changing position night to night and new features gradually rotating into view over the days and weeks. Another way to see different features is to wait some hours and view later on the same night.

But, they’re just splotches. But, we can turn the splotches into actual places with names if you compare them to a map, especially one which shows the face of Mars currently facing you, and especially one which can invert or reverse the view to match the view through the equipment you’re using.
Voilà:
https://skyandtelesc...filer/mars.html

Perhaps the easiest feature to start to recognize even without a map in front of you is called Syrtis Major, which is like a large dark peninsula. The light areas have names too, like Arabia Terra. Somewhat interestingly, the features easily seen through a small telescope don’t correspond so much to the features NASA typically discusses, like Olympus Mons and Valles Marineris. I’m not saying no amateur ever sees them, but they’re not the obvious things one can typically see. Meanwhile, NASA doesn’t care much about Syrtis Major, so, oh well. And then there are the canals…

Anyway, don’t stop with just Syrtis Major. If you follow it night to night or at different parts of a night, there are different features you can make out too. Also, try making at least a rough sketch sometimes, and then comparing it to a map later (set to that date and time). Just as you start to recognize things, Mars will be rapidly shrinking and you’ll have to wait 2 years to start to learn again, lol. Well, Mars is a toughie… But some nights during an excellent opposition, it can be magical.

Filters can enhance features somewhat. I’ve used the Baader Contrast Booster, which works, but which I find unnecessary. It changes the color slightly (not in a bad way though) and involves some work to get in and out, so I typically skip it. Still, sometimes I’ll break it out and enjoy the higher contrast view with the Contrast Booster.
Then there are the various color filters which can be used to improved contrast for specific features. I haven’t tried color filters myself other than looking through other people’s colored filters when I was a kid (I wasn’t so impressed and so have never felt compelled to get my own set), but if you don’t expect major miracles but rather subtle enhancements, you might want to look into those. Agena has an overview on what might be expected (look under the ‘Mars’ column):
https://agenaastro.c...ary-filter.html

I note that the yellow #12 can bring out the canals :
https://agenaastro.c...PWM4VZ3ig2tkn9P
https://agenaastro.c...low-filter.html


https://esahubble.org/images/opo0322e/

I hope some of that helps some. A lot of it may come down to having appropriate expectations, seeking out good seeing and then learning the names of a few features and following along on a map, especially during a good opposition. Putting in the time. Sharing what you see and reading others’ observations in the observing forums/threads. Making a few sketches. Dreaming along like John Carter trapped on Earth. Best of luck with your pursuit

[Dave Mitsky]

Rather surprisingly, I had one of my best views of Mars during the current opposition earlier tonight through my smallest Dob, a 6" f/7.9 Apertura AD6.  Using a 6mm Tele Vue Delos (200x) and a Baader Moon and Skyglow Neodymium Filter, my wife and I were able to see the NPC (North Polar Cap) and Syrtis Major.

The previous times that I've observed Mars the seeing has been uniformly poor and even when I used the Naylor Observatory's 17" f/15 classical Cassegrain the views were disappointing.

Attached Thumbnails

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[Dave Mitsky]

The image above was a screen shot from MarsMap.

 

https://www.shallowsky.com/marsmap/

 

Here's a screen shot from Stellarium.

 

Information on this opposition of Mars can found at the following URLs:

 

https://alpo-astrono...h/2025_MARS.htm

 

https://cosmicpursui...bserving-guide/

 

https://www.explores...2025-opposition

 

https://starwalk.spa...mars-opposition

 

https://www.curtrenz.com/mars.html

 

Attached Thumbnails

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[Gmb1830]

I was trying out a borrowed scope last night (130/650--not the best scope for planets).  Jupiter (lower to the west and nearing the trees) looked fine.  Seeing wasn't optimal, and the moons weren't the sharpest.

 

Pop over to Mars which was nearly overhead.  Looked like a stack of pennies.  Multiple disks arranged around a brighter central disk.  Roll over to nearby Castor to see how that close double looks:  like twin bugs smashed on a windshield.  Nothing was going to look good that night, and I was surprised Jupiter showed any features. 

 

Yet back in December when a good night rolled through and I had my 6" f/8 Dob on Mars, it was magical.  Ice cap, dark features, etc.  The best was coming and going, but it was really there.  I was freezing my toes off, but I couldn't pull myself away.  I would give 10 so-so nights for one night of this. 

 

So as an earlier poster put it, luck helps.  Perseverance, too. 

[NinePlanets]

I would give 10 so-so nights for one night of this. 

. 

Ditto!

That's what we live for. 
 

[Sketcher]

I am no beginner but never a hardcore enthusiast. In 40 years I have never seen Mars as anything more than a feature-less orange blob. I've had countless scopes. Ten inch SCT - just a blob. Eight inch Dob - Yawn. Six inch Mak - Same crap different day. Four inch APO - waste of money. Last night, with a 96mm FCD1 doublet refractor, I easily observed a shadow transit on Jupiter and caught fleeting glimpses of the offending moon. Next I swung over to Mars. Poke out my eyes man - Yawn again!  Whats the trick on Mars. Before I die I want to see something on Mars. Tell me what to buy.

Taking into account all that you've said in your opening remarks, I'm inclined to conclude that your difficulties don't lie in the equipment realm -- not something that you're going to remedy by spending more money -- at least not while remaining in the traditional, visual, eye-at-the-eyepiece visual realm.

 

There's looking at stuff through a telescope, and there's observing.  If you've only been looking, then that's most likely the root of your difficulties.

 

"Looking" is basically, you take a look at something through a telescope, taking perhaps a minute or two and concluding that what you've seen is all there is to see when looking at whatever you've chosen to look at.

 

"Observing" is where one takes their time to actively look for details that one doesn't see when just looking.

 

Some of the more experienced observers will observe Mars for an hour or longer in their efforts to seek out otherwise hidden details.  They might see nothing more than a featureless yellow-orange disk at first.  But with time and continued effort, (assuming there's not a global dust storm under way -- and there usually isn't) more details will generally come into view.  As one gains more experience, one will see those "hidden" details quicker and quicker.

 

Work putting onto paper all that you can see.

 

I've been known to observe a planet for over an hour before even starting a sketch.  With Mars, in that time period one sees the planet (very slowly) rotating before one's very eyes.  I mentally note all details seen, always looking for more.  Eventually I decide to mentally "freeze" the planet's rotation and quickly work to sketch all the major features seen, fixing their relative positions onto the sketch.  Then, as time passes, if and when I note a previously unseen detail I can sneak it into the right location relative to the already sketched features -- even though the planet has rotated a bit in the meantime.  This is observing.  It takes time.  It takes patience.  It takes that never-give-up attitude.

 

Do that with Jupiter and other planets as well.  As you gain more experience observing, you'll end up seeing more and seeing it more quickly than before.

 

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

In all seriousness, I can think of no other explanations for going 40 years, using the variety of telescopes that you've used, without having seen any Martian features.

 

Correction:  Another explanation might lie with the condition of your eyes.  Reducing glare might help in this case.  Try dimming Mars through the use of whatever filters you're inclined to experiment with and/or upping your magnifications a bit.  But beware:  colored filters can enhance some features while making other features more difficult to see.  They can be fun to experiment with -- especially when observing Mars.  But if your eyes are good, and you're observing, as opposed to just looking, you ought to be seeing plenty of Martian features without having to make use of any filters.

Edited by Sketcher, 27 January 2025 - 01:05 PM.

[Keith Rivich]

Your problem is your eye. The trick to seeing detail on mars is the same trick as is used on all astronomy, by amateurs and professionals alike. Instead of your lousy eye, image with a camera.

MUCH better. <smile>

As far as what to buy, this camera will be fine. $300, ie dirt cheap. I shot the image of Mars at the end of this with something even less capable, a 130mm refractor, and very poor skills. Not kidding. Really, not kidding. Click on it for a better version, and details.

https://www.zwoastro...t/zwo-asi678mc/

No disrespect intended but I looked at Mars this past Friday night in decent seeing. 300x with my 18" scope. Looked a lot better then that image. Just have to catch it at the right time. 

Edited by Keith Rivich, 27 January 2025 - 09:10 PM.

[dave253]

I do remember spectacular views during the 88 apparition, using my then 10” f 8.3 dob and a 6mm ortho.

[epee]

Mars is tough.

It's only a little larger than the Moon, yet it's 230 times farther away and its features are lower in contrast.

 

That being said, I've had good views of mars with a 102mm refractor. I've had better views with my 12".

 

Since Mars is so far and so tiny it requires a significant amount of magnification; that means the sky must be steady; that doesn't happen often in my locale this time of year.

 

The low contrast features of Mars are easily irradiated into the orange blob you are so familiar with. This means that the bright surface makes looking for features akin to trying to see the dirt on a lit headlight at night. Observing Mars while the sky in bright, at dusk or dawn, goes a long way to curing this. Also, and conversely to the "standard" astronomy advice of finding a dark spot, set-up in a well-lit area so your pupils don't dark adapt; that way Mars won't seem so blinding. Just make sure none of the surrounding lights are reflecting off, or into, your eyepieces. Likewise, a polarizing filter or Neutral Density filter can help cut the glare.

 

Mars also responds better to visual filters better than the other planets. The Baader Contrast Booster is the single best, but also the most expensive. My favorite colors are Magenta, Salmon, Dark Yellow, and Green. Using the 12" scope, where I have plenty of light to play with, I will stack a filter cocktail; Baader Contrast Booster, Polarizer, and then one of the above colors.

[Dave Mitsky]

Mars also responds better to visual filters better than the other planets. The Baader Contrast Booster is the single best, but also the most expensive. My favorite colors are Magenta, Salmon, Dark Yellow, and Green.

 

My favorite color filter for observing Mars is the Brandon CCM30 magenta filter.  Unfortunately, it's threaded for Brandon eyepieces and Dakin Barlows and requires an adapter for standard 1.25" eyepieces.
 

https://agenaastro.c...30-magenta.html
 

I also use Wratten #21 orange and Wratten #80A blue filters and a Baader Moon & Skyglow Filter when observing the Red Planet.

[Mike G.]

We had a 6" f/8 achro out last friday night at 6F.  With a Baader Moon and Skyglow, Mars was a bit muted at 255x but you could easily define the polar cap and Sirtis Major.  Best view of Mars I have had in years.  That said, 255x in my neck of the woods is darn unusual - I'm usually limited to 150-180 on good nights.  So seeing definitely has a lot to do with it, moreso than equipment.  But you also have to sit there and be patient (hard to do at 6F but I managed). That's why having a good observing chair is important - it's hard to stand at the EP waiting for those brief moments when it magically clears up. I think for Mars, patience is the most important thing.

[Dave Mitsky]

The 2003 perihelic opposition of Mars was simply incredible.

 

https://britastro.or...port Part 1.pdf

 

https://britastro.or...port Part 2.pdf

 

https://spider.seds....d/2003_MARS.htm
 

A friend of mine and I were able to see Mars casting a shadow at a very dark site.
 

Here's an image of Mars that I captured on August 10, 2003, using the Naylor Observatory's 17" f/15 classical Cassegrain and an Astrovid StellaCam EX video camera.  The prominent surface feature known as Syrtis Major can be seen at the central meridian.  Mars was 24.2 arc seconds in apparent size and was shining at magnitude -2.7 at the time.

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[Dave Mitsky]

For those observers who for the first time venture out under the sky to view the Red Planet will no doubt at first recoil back from the eyepiece in disbelief and bewilderment  -- Mars observing is observing on the fast track. Mars is a difficult object of study for telescopic observers to be sure and suffice it to say it is not for the impatient person. Even experienced observers realize the difficulty in their quest to gaze upon The Red Planet. Old hands will begin early in the apparition to sharpen up their skill and again develop the acute eye necessary for seeing the faint details of Mars.  Yes, we have to warm up, start practice slow and easy -- then really get on with it as the planet increases in apparent size.

 

https://alpo-astrono...ing_Mars_6.html

 

Edited by Dave Mitsky, 28 January 2025 - 03:38 PM.