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Meade 178ED for sale!

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#51 Weisswurst Josef

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 10:49 AM

grin.gif I think Chas has been scarred for life by his experiences. 

 

Myself, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat, if I could. I now have the tools and knowledge to deal with it, if it misbehaves. 

 

My late mentor Per Darnell had a Meade 178 ED, and it was a fantastic scope. Super sharp, with gorgeous planetary details, and no false color that I could see. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

 

I would pick it up too.

To come back to the thread.

Gents, may you please stay much closer to it too.



#52 starman876

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:13 PM

grin.gif I think Chas has been scarred for life by his experiences. 

 

Myself, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat, if I could. I now have the tools and knowledge to deal with it, if it misbehaves. 

 

My late mentor Per Darnell had a Meade 178 ED, and it was a fantastic scope. Super sharp, with gorgeous planetary details, and no false color that I could see. 

 

 

Clear skies!

Thomas, Denmark

the  one for sale might be the same one I had. It was a great scope.   It just got to large for me to deal with with the mount and all.  Otherwise I never would have sold it.    It is a scope worth getting,  


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#53 starman876

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 12:19 PM

I started a thread in the refractor forum to get opinions of the 178ed from folks who actually had one.  


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#54 RichA

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 05:51 PM

Everything I said was true. Throughout Meade's history they have made cheap knockoffs of other company's hard-won designs that were "already proven" and "successful" in the marketplace. None of the Meade's below were first to market. They were all introduced after other company's designs had proven themselves in the market. 

 

Should I list a few...

Meade's 3.5 and 7" Maks. Exactly the same size as Questars's. Meade could have at least made different sizes.

Meade's copy of the original Tele Vue Naglers.

Meade didn't stop a their 7" apo because Astro-Physics was offering a 7" apo and Meade wanted people to believe they could gat Astro-Physics' quality for less. 

Meade offered a digital imaging camera after SBIG cameras were becoming popular

And of course, there's Meade's copy of Celestron's SCT design. 

 

Copying was Meade's operating procedure long before Astro-Physics apos became popular. Meade tried to jump on the Astro-Physics's apo bandwagon and piggyback off of Astro-Physics reputation just as they did with the other examples above. If the Meade refractors were such a great design, why are they not being made? Those Meade refractors had a very short market lifespan. Agema makes high-quality apo doublets but they are doing it right. 

 

Bob

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#55 Airship

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:08 PM

Listing is currently marked as sale pending.



#56 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:56 PM

Dad says that they used to say that the German word for brassier was Keepsumfromfloppin!

 

I just know that one of the mods is going to have kittens over that but is a really good description and funny joke!

 

You older guys had really good jokes. So unlike my generation and later.

 

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

Q

Mine were never good even in 1977.  But my seeing can be good and much better than most anyone on here. What one person says about having a good 178 and what my eyes say is another story.



#57 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 06:59 PM

Everything I said was true. Throughout Meade's history they have made cheap knockoffs of other company's hard-won designs that were "already proven" and "successful" in the marketplace. None of the Meade's below were first to market. They were all introduced after other company's designs had proven themselves in the market. 

 

Should I list a few...

Meade's 3.5 and 7" Maks. Exactly the same size as Questars's. Meade could have at least made different sizes.

Meade's copy of the original Tele Vue Naglers.

Meade didn't stop a their 7" apo because Astro-Physics was offering a 7" apo and Meade wanted people to believe they could gat Astro-Physics' quality for less. 

Meade offered a digital imaging camera after SBIG cameras were becoming popular

And of course, there's Meade's copy of Celestron's SCT design. 

 

Copying was Meade's operating procedure long before Astro-Physics apos became popular. Meade tried to jump on the Astro-Physics's apo bandwagon and piggyback off of Astro-Physics reputation just as they did with the other examples above. If the Meade refractors were such a great design, why are they not being made? Those Meade refractors had a very short market lifespan. Agema makes high-quality apo doublets but they are doing it right. 

 

Bob

The tripods from 2080's and LX200 were the same as the golden tripod from the DX8.



#58 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 07:00 PM

So Chrysler and Chevrolet just copied Ford etc.etc. What you describe is called competition. Make something good in the same space and sell it for less. The Meade SCTs were superior to Celestron's in the 1980s. Anyone can independently make an eyepiece like the Nagler, just like they can make and sell Kellners and Plossls. The Meade UWAs are arguably superior to their antecedents. Marketing the ETX as a competitor to the Questar was both legitimate and good business. They are excellent scopes optically. Design flaws in the original were identified and corrected. BTW there was no 7" ETX. It was an LX200. It was 7" because that's about the biggest hunk of meniscus glass easily found and affordable.

 

There is an aspect of this hobby which involves almost intolerable snobbery and one-upmanship. No one is arguing that AP doesn't produce some of the finest refractors ever made. If that's your bag, to spend $10,000 on a 5- or 6-inch telescope OTA, that's fine. But the fact that the Meade ED doublets are not AP triplets is like saying a Ford Mustang GT is not a Lamborghini. It's an empty comparison. Meade were looking to a larger market. I am fully capable of testing optics down to the 1/8th wave level. I know what I am looking at and where something falls short. There is not one Meade product I own which does not give excellent performance. Bashing them even after death - I don't know what to say. I've been in the game a long time. I saw the positive effect on the community at large. And I'm a proud owner of my Meade gear.

 

-drl

I don't think there were more than 30 7" ED's sold.



#59 deSitter

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 07:44 PM

I don't think there were more than 30 7" ED's sold.

What do you base that conclusion on? There is a small but non-zero lore about the 650 and 750 mounts you also disdain, but those are immune from comparison with other refractors, and each came with one such refractor, since they were never sold independently (a big mistake). I know your bad luck extends to mounts as well, but as stated there is a small but non-zero lore about them from dedicated owners. 30 examples would not generate lore. Let's quadruple that for the 152 say, and 120 examples would not generate lore. No, there must have been thousands of 650 and 750 mounts and refractors on every one. ADM had a special saddle kit to convert either to a dual Losmandy/Vixen saddle. I have one of these. ADM doens't do that for 120 examples.

 

-drl


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#60 CHASLX200

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 07:54 PM

What do you base that conclusion on? There is a small but non-zero lore about the 650 and 750 mounts you also disdain, but those are immune from comparison with other refractors, and each came with one such refractor, since they were never sold independently (a big mistake). I know your bad luck extends to mounts as well, but as stated there is a small but non-zero lore about them from dedicated owners. 30 examples would not generate lore. Let's quadruple that for the 152 say, and 120 examples would not generate lore. No, there must have been thousands of 650 and 750 mounts and refractors on every one. ADM had a special saddle kit to convert either to a dual Losmandy/Vixen saddle. I have one of these. ADM doens't do that for 120 examples.

 

-drl

Disdain jane?  I love them mounts with the SLO- MO's. You get things mixed up to the point i am gonna have to slap on ignore my man.  Only thing i did not like tike was the GO-TO on my LXD600 was was whole diff computer from the 650 and 750.   You get the numbers and come back let us know.



#61 Martin

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 08:27 PM

Disdain jane?  I love them mounts with the SLO- MO's. You get things mixed up to the point i am gonna have to slap on ignore my man.  Only thing i did not like tike was the GO-TO on my LXD600 was was whole diff computer from the 650 and 750.   You get the numbers and come back let us know.

Chas,

Where did you come up with that number? Had to be more than that, they were available for quite a few years. There are lots of people out there that are not on cloudynights or any forum for that matter, so we will never hear from those people. Also, I believe the computer as you call it was the same in the LXD650, 750, and 600. The 600 was the bare bones model with no go to. Adding the 1697 boards turned it into the LXD650. So, I doubt your 600 was any different than the 650. I like the 650's, they can have a few bugs but you can usually get them working properly. Sometimes it is operator error and people just do not want to read the manual to find out how to use it. 

 

Martin


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#62 starman876

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Posted 31 January 2025 - 11:33 PM

Chas,

Where did you come up with that number? Had to be more than that, they were available for quite a few years. There are lots of people out there that are not on cloudynights or any forum for that matter, so we will never hear from those people. Also, I believe the computer as you call it was the same in the LXD650, 750, and 600. The 600 was the bare bones model with no go to. Adding the 1697 boards turned it into the LXD650. So, I doubt your 600 was any different than the 650. I like the 650's, they can have a few bugs but you can usually get them working properly. Sometimes it is operator error and people just do not want to read the manual to find out how to use it. 

 

Martin

The 178ED was the biggest production apo at the time and had a good following,  Just about everyone wanted one.  Heck, a 7" APO refractor.  Who would not of wanted one.  Even Chas bought one.   I finally bought one an lucked out.  I think mine must have had a cell that fit the objectives just right.  Right out of the shipping box it provided great views,  No one had anything close for that kind of money.   I bet they sold hundreds and hundreds if them.   If you read all the reviews there were not that many complaints, but the guys who did have problems sure made sure everyone knew about it. 


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#63 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 06:18 AM

Chas,

Where did you come up with that number? Had to be more than that, they were available for quite a few years. There are lots of people out there that are not on cloudynights or any forum for that matter, so we will never hear from those people. Also, I believe the computer as you call it was the same in the LXD650, 750, and 600. The 600 was the bare bones model with no go to. Adding the 1697 boards turned it into the LXD650. So, I doubt your 600 was any different than the 650. I like the 650's, they can have a few bugs but you can usually get them working properly. Sometimes it is operator error and people just do not want to read the manual to find out how to use it. 

 

Martin

I knew two owners of two scope comps and they said not many 7" were sold. Bunch of 4's and 5's.  I had the LX600 with the 757 object data base if i remember right.  I traded my mushey C14 for the 5" ED in 1998. Optics were good but not FS128 good. Mount would just go on it's own and hit the tripod.



#64 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 06:19 AM

The 178ED was the biggest production apo at the time and had a good following,  Just about everyone wanted one.  Heck, a 7" APO refractor.  Who would not of wanted one.  Even Chas bought one.   I finally bought one an lucked out.  I think mine must have had a cell that fit the objectives just right.  Right out of the shipping box it provided great views,  No one had anything close for that kind of money.   I bet they sold hundreds and hundreds if them.   If you read all the reviews there were not that many complaints, but the guys who did have problems sure made sure everyone knew about it. 

It sure got the fame james. Just not the fame we all wished for.  Meade tried a cell a fix after mine was made. Askar is now the new 7" ED but does cost more.


Edited by CHASLX200, 01 February 2025 - 06:20 AM.


#65 Lagrange

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 09:31 AM

It sure got the fame james. Just not the fame we all wished for.  Meade tried a cell a fix after mine was made. Askar is now the new 7" ED but does cost more.

Does it cost more in real terms? I believe the 178ED cost around $7000 in 1997 which is equivalent to around $14000 today, compared to the Askar 185APO which is less than $5k.

 

It's amazing how much cheaper scopes have become over the last three or four decades.


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#66 starman876

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 09:59 AM

It sure got the fame james. Just not the fame we all wished for.  Meade tried a cell a fix after mine was made. Askar is now the new 7" ED but does cost more.

the DPAC results I have seen of the Askar do not look very good.


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#67 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 10:01 AM

the DPAC results I have seen of the Askar do not look very good.

They vary like SCT's/ When you go cheap you roll the dice slice.



#68 starman876

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 10:01 AM

Does it cost more in real terms? I believe the 178ED cost around $7000 in 1997 which is equivalent to around $14000 today, compared to the Askar 185APO which is less than $5k.

 

It's amazing how much cheaper scopes have become over the last three or four decades.

computer generated lenses have cut the costs plus the type of glass they use today.   if you want good glass you still pay big bucks.  


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#69 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 10:48 AM

Does it cost more in real terms? I believe the 178ED cost around $7000 in 1997 which is equivalent to around $14000 today, compared to the Askar 185APO which is less than $5k.

 

It's amazing how much cheaper scopes have become over the last three or four decades.

But that included a mount.



#70 deSitter

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 12:26 PM

Disdain jane?  I love them mounts with the SLO- MO's. You get things mixed up to the point i am gonna have to slap on ignore my man.  Only thing i did not like tike was the GO-TO on my LXD600 was was whole diff computer from the 650 and 750.   You get the numbers and come back let us know.

The only difference between the 600 and 650 was the voltage rating printed on the cover. The circuits were designed for 12v but Meade thought slewing was too slow and figured they could bump it to 18v to drive up the top speed of the DC motors. It was a very dumb thing to do, and as with other LX200 classic telescopes, is the main cause for electronics failure on these telescopes.

 

I'm not razzing you Chas -  but you just keep on with your personal experience as representative of the experience of the entire user base.

 

-drl



#71 CHASLX200

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 03:16 PM

The only difference between the 600 and 650 was the voltage rating printed on the cover. The circuits were designed for 12v but Meade thought slewing was too slow and figured they could bump it to 18v to drive up the top speed of the DC motors. It was a very dumb thing to do, and as with other LX200 classic telescopes, is the main cause for electronics failure on these telescopes.

 

I'm not razzing you Chas -  but you just keep on with your personal experience as representative of the experience of the entire user base.

 

-drl

I can only go by what i have had.



#72 Kasmos

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 03:35 PM

Everything I said was true. Throughout Meade's history they have made cheap knockoffs of other company's hard-won designs that were "already proven" and "successful" in the marketplace. None of the Meade's below were first to market. They were all introduced after other company's designs had proven themselves in the market. 

 

Should I list a few...

Meade's 3.5 and 7" Maks. Exactly the same size as Questars's. Meade could have at least made different sizes.

Meade's copy of the original Tele Vue Naglers.

Meade didn't stop a their 7" apo because Astro-Physics was offering a 7" apo and Meade wanted people to believe they could gat Astro-Physics' quality for less. 

Meade offered a digital imaging camera after SBIG cameras were becoming popular

And of course, there's Meade's copy of Celestron's SCT design. 

 

Copying was Meade's operating procedure long before Astro-Physics apos became popular. Meade tried to jump on the Astro-Physics's apo bandwagon and piggyback off of Astro-Physics reputation just as they did with the other examples above. If the Meade refractors were such a great design, why are they not being made? Those Meade refractors had a very short market lifespan. Agema makes high-quality apo doublets but they are doing it right. 

 

Bob

I'm not saying everything they offered or made was bad, but I've never liked unscrupulous copy cats so it's always tainted my feelings towards Meade (Diebel).


Edited by Kasmos, 02 February 2025 - 04:25 AM.

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#73 starman876

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Posted 01 February 2025 - 06:21 PM

The only difference between the 600 and 650 was the voltage rating printed on the cover. The circuits were designed for 12v but Meade thought slewing was too slow and figured they could bump it to 18v to drive up the top speed of the DC motors. It was a very dumb thing to do, and as with other LX200 classic telescopes, is the main cause for electronics failure on these telescopes.

 

I'm not razzing you Chas -  but you just keep on with your personal experience as representative of the experience of the entire user base.

 

-drl

You are right about the electronics being the same.  I have had both the 600 and 650 and the 700 and 750 mounts and have looked Inside both and everything was the same.  Only difference being g the voltages.   Meade was dumb upping the voltage and not putting in new <components rated at the new higher voltage. 



#74 RogerRZ

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Posted 04 February 2025 - 11:35 AM

Listing is currently marked as sale pending.

I am the potential buyer. I have an old Celestron CGE on standby for just such an opportunity.

 

Having had spinal fusion surgery a week and a half ago, I can't drive, but he has business in my neck of the woods, so will meet me at my house. For what he's asking, if it's decent to look through, it's good enough for me. Seeing rarely permits much over 200x here and I have the 25" dob to go after the really faint fuzzies. It will be a good public outreach tool, I've got liability insurance but would rather have them on the ground than four steps up a ladder.

 

It will likely draw crowds much like the 25"...

 

I'll post an update when (if) I buy it.


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#75 Lagrange

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Posted 04 February 2025 - 05:44 PM

But that included a mount.

How good was the mount? The lower cost of a similar scope today would give you enough money left over to get a pretty substantial mount.




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