14 replies to this topic

[dapanattoni]

I am seeking some advice from people with experience. I currently have a 4.5" Orion Skyview scope. I haven't used it in years, and now that I have grandkids, I'd like to get a new telescope. I want something that will be easy to find objects (preferably utilizing the go-to technology) and something that will track the object so that all the kids can see it before it exits the eyepiece. I imagine I would start by mainly use it for planetary and moon viewing, but like last time, that routine got old and so the telescope sat unused for a while. To prevent routine boredom from setting in, I'd like to dabble with some EAA as it looks intriguing and would allow us to see objects that our eyes don't see.

 

I'm looking at the Celestron 8" Evolution as it looks like it checks off all of those wants/desires. I'm also looking at the Sky-Watcher 10" SynScan GoTo Dobsonian. There seems to be mixed reviews on doing EAA with the dobsonian, but I am attracted to having the wider tube.

 

Probably, both would be good, but is one better than the other for a starter scope that provides opportunity to dabble and grow in the hobby?

 

Thanks in advance.

[sevenofnine]

Welcome to C/N! 

 

Since you want to do EAA, you might want to consider one of the new Smart Telescopes first then add a visual scope later. Grand kids, especially young ones have a lot of trouble looking though an eyepiece. Standing out in the dark when it's cold isn't too popular either. If I was choosing between the 8" Evolution and the 10" Go-To Dob, it would be the Evolution. It's much easier to deal with and transport to a dark sky location. The weight and awkwardness of the go-to Dob is considerable but that's just my 2 cents. I've been having a lot of fun with my Seestar S50 and it's incredibly easy to use. Every friend and family member enjoys getting the pictures right to their cell phone. They are all amazed! 

 

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Edited by sevenofnine, 30 January 2025 - 04:57 PM.

[aeajr]

Welcome back to astronomy.

 

Old Scope

 

First, if the 4.5" SkyView Dob is in good shape, pull it out. It should do a pretty good job on the Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus and Mars.  Naturally a larger aperture will do better, but don't write this one off.  You may need to add some eyepieces to get a better range of magnifications. 

 

The bright planets are easy to find and I can give you a very easy way to find DSO targets with that scope   This is my main method in my very light polluted location.

 

Using an angle gauge to help find targets – AltAz coordinates
https://www.cloudyni...t-polluted-sky/

 

 

AstroHopper is another tool you might want to try with your old scope.
https://www.youtube....h?v=AtArqBLWWJ8
https://www.cloudyni.../#entry12356885
https://artyom-beili...ing-astrohopper

 

 

New Scope

 

Based on the feel I get from your post, I think the Celestron 8" Evo would be a very good choice.  If your main focus is planets and the moon, it will give you everything you need in a fairly compact package AND it will do very well on most DSOs.  Finally you can put a camera on it to use for EAA.

 

 

Sky-Watcher 10" SynScan GoTo Dobsonian is a great scope but my feeling from your original post is that the EVO would be a better choice for you.  The Dob will be big and heavy.  It will do what you want but I think think the EVO is a better fit for you.

 

 

Smart Scopes

 

If you want to go all-in on EAA and give up the eyepiece experience in the new scope, then this is the way to go. These are smart/automated and fully integrated EAA/AP systems. The image comes up on your smartphone or tablet and it improves over time as the scope captures light.  However, most of these scopes are not very well suited to planets.  They do a good job on the Sun, Moon and DSOs.  They are typically less effective for planets.  However others may have a different response based on some of the newer models.  I have the older Dwarf 2 and my friend has four smart scopes.  My astronomy club is really getting into these. 

 

 

 

Dwarf 3

https://dwarflab.com...F8aAqikEALw_wcB

Video Review

https://www.youtube....h?v=lpXxIlxIdJI

 

 

Dwarf vs SeeStar

https://www.youtube....h?v=DL2cckqPnbk

 

 

Seestar 50

https://www.highpoin...R0aAn7kEALw_wcB

 

 

Unistellar Equinox 2

https://shop.unistel...=40467965018135

 

 

Vespera II

https://vaonis.com/p...duct/vespera-ii

Video Review

https://www.youtube....h?v=ur80kNLX9II

 

 

There are lots of video reviews on these smartscopes on Youtube.

 

 

A combination of your current scope with one of these Smart Scopes could be exactly what you are looking for. 

Edited by aeajr, 30 January 2025 - 03:54 PM.

[vtornado]

Celestron 8 is probably not a good fit for EAA.

 

See-Star is interesting, but not the same as a visual telescope.

 

The skywatcher AZ-GTI is a good goto mount.   I don't know what visual scopes it currently comes bundled with.

 

10 inch dob is kind of big.  How long would you have to take it out and drive before you let the kids have more control.

 

Skywatcher virtuso?  (I don't have one, but a lot more managible).

 

Celestron Star-sense explorer series.   Not a goto, it is a push to.  You will need a compatible phone.

[3C286]

Hi 

 

...and now that I have grandkids, I'd like to get a new telescope. I want something that will be easy to find objects (preferably utilizing the go-to technology) and something that will track the object so that all the kids can see it before it exits the eyepiece. I imagine I would start by mainly use it for planetary and moon viewing, but like last time, that routine got old and so the telescope sat unused for a while. 

I'm afraid I wouldn't get your hopes up that the grand kids want to join you at the scope for long in the cold in the dark... That was my hope when I got a telescope (my kids, not grand kids yet) but I can barely get them off their screens in the comfort of a warm house...

 

So the telescope's got to be for yourself, first and foremost, and if the grand kids are interested, that's a bonus!

 

Tak

Edited by 3C286, 30 January 2025 - 06:40 PM.

[3C286]

To prevent routine boredom from setting in, I'd like to dabble with some EAA as it looks intriguing and would allow us to see objects that our eyes don't see.

 

I'm looking at the Celestron 8" Evolution as it looks like it checks off all of those wants/desires. I'm also looking at the Sky-Watcher 10" SynScan GoTo Dobsonian. There seems to be mixed reviews on doing EAA with the dobsonian, but I am attracted to having the wider tube.

 

Probably, both would be good, but is one better than the other for a starter scope that provides opportunity to dabble and grow in the hobby?

For EAA questions, you'll get more expert answers from the EAA forum . But here are my inexpert contributions:

 

A problem with starting with long focal length scopes like a Dob or an 8" SCT for EAA is that you need a camera with a large sensor to be able to plate-solve to work out where your scope's pointing. The big cost in EAA is cameras, especially large-sensor mono cameras. The larger sensor gives you a bigger field of view and mono cameras are more sensitive than colour cameras so they give you an image quicker. 

 

8" SCTs with an f/6.3 reducer are widely used in EAA but with larger sensors like the 294mm, 533mm, etc. 6" SCTs are also used but seems to be less popular? CN member Alphatripleplus has a thread somewhere where he uses a small 290mm mono camera with a C6 double-stacked with two f/6.3 reducers to give an overall focal ratio of f/3.3. Lower focal ratios mean that you get an acceptable image quicker, which is the name of the game in EAA.

 

It's cheaper and easier to start out with shorter-focal length scopes and a small planetary camera. You can also get away with a cheaper mount.

 

A better option might be to separate out visual and EAA.

 

For example, an 8"-10" Dob gives views that make people say WoW and they are relatively easy to find used. When you're ready to try EAA, you could get the AZ-GTi mount that vtornado mentioned, a 72ED and a small planetary camera. You'll see images of galaxies build up in minutes that are just faint fuzzies in an 8-inch Dob. It'll also make a great grab-and-go set up for visual astronomy when you can't be bothered to get the big scope out.

 

If you'd like to learn about EAA and EAA equipment, I found this 159-page thread by SchoolMaster called "EAA- my journey to glory?" really informative:

 

https://www.cloudyni...urney-to-glory/

 

 

Good luck!

Tak

Edited by 3C286, 30 January 2025 - 06:45 PM.

[SeattleScott]

8” Evolution
Much easier for kids to reach the eyepiece
Good for visual and EAA if you get a reducer
Lower maintenance, no regular collimation
Less collimation fuss, easy on eyepieces
Can stick a Starsense module on for automated GoTo alignment

The Seestar is a hoot though and super small, light and easy to use. Kind of sucks on planets though, and you lose a little magic of viewing through eyepiece, but you get to see stuff you wouldn’t see through an eyepiece.

[Meterman]

First decide on a budget. Large Aperture and/or advanced control add to the price tag. 

 

Decide what you want from it. Mainly closer and brighter targets over smaller and dimmer? A mix of both? Will it be used at home only or maybe other places?

 

And most importantly find a local Astronomy Club if you can. You can ask questions and maybe see different types of scopes. You can also ask about accessories, too. 

 

I owned the same scope previously, it may be more capable than you know. But it sounds like you want a little more in the "features" area. 

 

Whatever you decide, be informed and get what feels good and has logic. Do it for yourself first, anyone else who gets enjoyment, young or old, is a bonus. 

 

I must say, though, I don't know which is better. Small kids yelling "Wow" the first time they see the moon up close, or Saturn, or another Galaxy, or someone who is 75-80 years or more old.

Edited by Meterman, 06 February 2025 - 12:19 AM.

[PIEJr]

Our two youngest Granddaughters now have my Orion ED80T CF, on a tripod with a geared head on their dads upstairs balcony.

I put Stellarium on the 11 YO's cell phone so they have a reference and have found a lot of fun objects to look at.

They were telling me about the objects, mostly planets, and the 8 YO excitedly said and BEETLEGUSE!

 

You are in for a lot of fun!

 

I prefer refractors for their simplicity and never needing collimation.

YMMV

[Jay_Reynolds_Freeman]

How about finding a local astronomy club and going there -- take your grandkids and the 4.5 along. You might get faster advice and perhaps some hands-on experience that way, and you might get a sense of what your grandkids could be interested in.

 

Don't throw away the 4.5 -- as you get experience you will likely find more things to do with it. If those kids get interested perhaps you could delegate it to them.

 

Clear sky ...

[Sebastian_Sajaroff]

My advice : keep the 4.5" for the Moon, planets and doubles. Get a SeeStar S50 for the rest.

[Paul Sweeney]

The trouble with kids is that you cannot be sure that they are seeing the target or that they have the scope properly focused. Younger kids may hang from the focuser, moving the scope or even damaging the mount. They may even make it tip over. I speak from experience. So a good way to avoid all this, and actually have a more interesting time with the grandkids is to use a camera/eea eyepiece and a laptop. This way you can point out features of interest and talk about what they are seeing. You are also experiencing this together, instead of everyone looking on their own. A big image of Saturn on a laptop screen is far more interesting than the small image at the eyepiece.

Edited by Paul Sweeney, 14 February 2025 - 06:13 PM.

[star acres]

You don't need the go-to. Kids like to do things themselves. They soak up learning like a Bounty Towel. There's so many great telescopes and choices, I wouldn't know where to start. The only thing I don't know is what's wrong with the Orion. I think the Antique store under me sold that model last summer, and it was great. Including the eyepieces.

[dmgriff]

Keep the Orion 4.5 inch.

If you add the Evo 8, the mount sets up and breaks down very easily. You can align with the hand controller (2 star align often recommended; will also solar system align) or the SkyPortal app. The Evo mount will also support some short  wide field refractors (I put a SV48P 90/500) and clear to zenith.

Edited by dmgriff, 16 February 2025 - 11:12 AM.

[RickylMcc53]

I also have the 8 inch evolution  and love it. A user friendly setup. It is not too heavy and is built well. I do some EAA with mine, not as serious as some would do and it works fine. I have a focal reducer to get a wider field of view. It is good with visual use as well.